Nasser El Sonbaty at the 1998 Mr Olympia

[dr.chimps]

Seem to have forgotten Levrone/Wheeler. Both  were far more popular than nasser. He is certainly in the top 5 for 2-3 years tops until Big Ron started throwing his weight around.  Nasser then spiraled down into obscurity and bitterness from which he has not recovered.

[Topskin69]

I will now impart a great revelation to all the Nasser Worshipers...

Nasser's problem throughout his career was not his physique, it was his personality. He was simply too bland, and it was quite an accomplishment, that he got as far as he did.

There is more to success in bodybuilding then just having the best physique, it is also important that you know how to sell your act, and if Nasser knew how to project a more individualistic persona he probably would have an "O: to his name.

[Danjo]

True as far as the bodybuilding hierarchy might have been concerned,but to his fans(which he always treated with respect) he is golden...

[Tyr]

I will now impart a great revelation to all the Nasser Worshipers...

Nasser's problem throughout his career was not his physique, it was his personality. He was simply too bland, and it was quite an accomplishment, that he got as far as he did.

There is more to success in bodybuilding then just having the best physique, it is also important that you know how to sell your act, and if Nasser knew how to project a more individualistic persona he probably would have an "O: to his name.

Nasser was a company man and played the role of a nice guy. That's what most people thought he was until his interviews and his proxy wars. That's when people started seeing the real nasser - someone who will exploit his friends and family for personal gain. Of course the universe balanced things out and nasser paid a price for his sins.

[tbombz]

the thread is about nassers at the 98. of course ronnie is better. you cant beat that back, regardless how good your front is, especially since ronnies front is just as impressive. but nasser is one of the to 10 bodybuilders of all time, and i wouldnt argue with him being in the top 5...but bodybuilding is so subjective its sometimes hard to say definitively that one guy is better than another, when they are both maxed out muscle-wise and peeled.

[bigbobs]

Good to see that this "Team" isn't on the same page as their fearless leader. I suppose that is what happens when the General leads from the rear.

Just shows that individuals can have different opinions on a matter yet still have mutual respect or each other, which actually contradicts your accusation that we place Nasser on "demigod" status

[bigbobs]

I will now impart a great revelation to all the Nasser Worshipers...

Nasser's problem throughout his career was not his physique, it was his personality. He was simply too bland, and it was quite an accomplishment, that he got as far as he did.

There is more to success in bodybuilding then just having the best physique, it is also important that you know how to sell your act, and if Nasser knew how to project a more individualistic persona he probably would have an "O: to his name.

You could not have conversed with Nasser and other pros if you are able to say the above with a straight face. 

[Topskin69]

You could not have conversed with Nasser and other pros if you are able to say the above with a straight face. 

I have conversed with a good number of pros over the years, (keep in mind I live near Venice), though I have never met Nasser.

It is funny though... I remember having a conversation in 96 with a national level competitor about Nasser's bland personality holding him back. At the time I liked Nasser, from his interviews in FLEX, and such, but even then it was obvious that it was holding him back.

This may be different in person amongst his close friends...but it doesn't matter... if you cant translate that to the stage then so what?

[bigbobs]

I have conversed with a good number of pros over the years, (keep in mind I live near Venice), though I have never met Nasser.

Exactly as I predicted from your post.  Had you met him 99% likelihood you would not have posted that his personality is "bland" especialy compared to other pros.  Even if you've been reading getbig many guys have posted that he had a cool personality or even the greatest of all pros they met, and these are not even Nasser fans who say this.

[Topskin69]

Exactly as I predicted from your post.  Had you met him 99% likelihood you would not have posted that his personality is "bland" especialy compared to other pros.  Even if you've been reading getbig many guys have posted that he had a cool personality or even the greatest of all pros they met, and these are not even Nasser fans who say this.

You are missing my point. He may have a great personality, when talking to him in person, or whatever, but if he can't parlay that onto the stage, then what difference does it make?

I remember having a conversation with Dave Bourlet once... he was going on and on about how much Jay was going to do to put bodybuilding back in the mainstream eye, and how great he was, when I told him that Jay was about as exciting as watching mold grow, as evidenced by his DvDs.

This pissed him off...he retorted that Jay was a super funny guy and all that someone had to do was hang out with him in person, and their opinion would instantly change.

Well the point I made to him applies to you as well... unless you can project it to a general audience... it doesn't matter. 

[bigbobs]

You are missing my point. He may have a great personality, when talking to him in person, or whatever, but if he can't parlay that onto the stage, then what difference does it make?

I remember having a conversation with Dave Bourlet once... he was going on and on about how much Jay was going to do to put bodybuilding back in the mainstream eye, and how great he was, when I told him that Jay was about as exciting as watching mold grow, as evidenced by his DvDs.

This pissed him off...he retorted that Jay was a super funny guy and all that someone had to do was hang out with him in person, and their opinion would instantly change.

Well the point I made to him applies to you as well... unless you can project it to a general audience... it doesn't matter. 

So basically you are agree that politics and factors outside of one's physique do play a role in judging?  You agree with Nasser more than you think.

[England_1]

An argument can be made for 2nd, but there's no way he beats Coleman in 98. Ron's condition in 98 was on par with Yates in 95 - the best ever.

[Tyr]

I see we're back to how politics and the (racist) judges derailed nassers career.

The excuses and delusions continue...........

[Topskin69]

So basically you are agree that politics and factors outside of one's physique do play a role in judging?  You agree with Nasser more than you think.

I never disputed this. Many times the difference between a champion bodybuilder, and an also-ran is the understanding of psychological factors.

See.. where I disagree with Nasser, is that it wasn't overt racism, or malevolent decisions, by the judges, as much as it was just normal human behaviour.

Subjective criteria can be both a blessing and a curse, and anyone can use it to their advantage...

Anyone coming from outside of America is going to have a harder time climbing the ranks in Pro Bodybuilding, then someone from another country, this much is true, and it is going to take either a transcendent quality in their delivery, or personality, or a physique that is so far and above the rest, that it cant be ignored.

Nasser was good enough that he managed to overcome the handicap, of not being American, but lacked the foresight to see that he needed more to bring to the table then just his physique.

That said...he hardly deserved three "Os" IMO. 97 was a solid complaint, but beyond that I would say that he more or less placed where he should have.

[Sherief Shalaby]

Seem to have forgotten Levrone/Wheeler. Both  were far more popular than nasser. He is certainly in the top 5 for 2-3 years tops until Big Ron started throwing his weight around.  Nasser then spiraled down into obscurity

100% wrong!!.. nasser's popularity reached a level at a certain point in the 90s nither levrone's nor wheeler have ever reached!!.. nasser was the only guy to be referred to all the time as the crowd favorite!!..

[Topskin69]

100% wrong!!.. nasser's popularity reached a level at a certain point in the 90s nither levrone's nor wheeler have ever reached!!.. nasser was the only guy to be referred to all the time as the crowd favorite!!..

 

[Palpatine Q]

Arnold and Dorian weren't American and they managed to do OK at the Olympia

[NarcissisticDeity]

Arnold and Dorian weren't American and they managed to do OK at the Olympia

Neither was Sergio Oliva

[Topskin69]

Arnold and Dorian weren't American and they managed to do OK at the Olympia

Yes...but this just makes my point. Look at Arnold's Charisma... it didn't matter what he looked like. Imagine you were a judge, and you had a man with that much charisma in front of you, how could you not want to get behind him?

While Dorian was a bit stoic, he managed to transcend this with a highly self-confidant swagger, and he had managed to create quite a mystique for himself...as this lone figure from across the pond, training in an odd (at the time) style.

These are the kind of things that will can be the separating factors in a contest.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Yes...but this just makes my point. Look at Arnold's Charisma... it didn't matter what he looked like. Imagine you were a judge, and you had a man with that much charisma in front of you, how could you not want to get behind him?

While Dorian was a bit stoic, he managed to transcend this with a highly self-confidant swagger, and he had managed to create quite a mystique for himself...as this lone figure from across the pond, training in an odd (at the time) style.

These are the kind of things that will can be the separating factors in a contest.

Nonsense. How did they judge Arnold's charisma on a physique stage? and Dorian entered his first pro show with NO hype , no publicity he was unknown and he let his physique do the talking for him.

At the end of the day you have to bring it on contest day and they judge whats in front of them compared to their contemporaries

[Topskin69]

Nonsense. How did they judge Arnold's charisma on a physique stage? and Dorian entered his first pro show with NO hype , no publicity he was unknown and he let his physique do the talking for him.

At the end of the day you have to bring it on contest day and they judge whats in front of them compared to their contemporaries

Go back a few posts.. I said that two things need to be in place for someone to transcend coming from an obscure, (to Americans anyway), origin...and that is a unique/enthralling personality, or a physique that is so above the standard that people have to pay attention.

The latter is what brought Dorian to the table..the former  is what kept him there thru some questionable times.

You seem to think IFBB judges are robots, incapable of human bias, or emotion.

[Palpatine Q]

Truth....Arnold could barely speak English when he first arrived and he was Mr O in two years.....He wasn't ARNOLD yet.

Same with Dorian....he was a relative unknown when he first won...they were just the best BBers at the time.

Let's not forget Samir Bannout either. hardly a household name and was a surprise winner.

[Topskin69]

Also let me claify that there is a cap to how far your presentation/charisma will take you.

Kenny Jones wont be winning contests anytime soon. You have to have a top physique to make it to the Olympia stage, but you can bet that when assessing a lot of evenly matched/great physiques, that the intangible qualities of a person will come into play.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Go back a few posts.. I said that two things need to be in place for someone to transcend coming from an obscure, (to Americans anyway), origin...and that is a unique/enthralling personality, or a physique that is so above the standard that people have to pay attention.

The latter is what brought Dorian to the table..the former  is what kept him there thru some questionable times.

You seem to think IFBB judges are robots, incapable of human bias, or emotion.

Both brought physiques that were exceptional to their contemporaries and I think the IFBB judges are more objective that 99% people give them credit for. with that said they're not infallible but this is where the high & low scores are tossed out to get the most accurate and honest score that can be

[Topskin69]

Truth....Arnold could barely speak English when he first arrived and he was Mr O in two years.....He wasn't ARNOLD yet.

Same with Dorian....he was a relative unknown when he first won...they were just the best BBers at the time.

Let's not forget Samir Bannout either. hardly a household name and was a surprise winner.

Bannout also had a good deal of Charisma, that translated to the stage... something Nasser couldn't quite pull off.

I'm not saying the best people never win...in fact I think that most Ifbb decisions have been fair... at least regarding the winners, but there have been a fair share of bullshit calls, and inconsistent judging standards...as they are human like anyone else.