Author Topic: America...what A Wonderful Country...Yeah Right  (Read 1141 times)

SAMSON123

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America...what A Wonderful Country...Yeah Right
« on: February 03, 2010, 12:43:41 PM »
For those of you that are so patriotic...here is some new news for those of you who have or know of people who have lost their homes to foreclosure. Not only has the bastard Obama paid off the banks for these mortgages they loaned out, but now the scum bag banks are coming after the people who had their homes foreclosed on making them pay if the home is not sellable or pay the difference betwen the loan and the amount the home is/was sold for....WTF

Mortgage lenders pursue homeowners even after foreclosure
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By Les Christie, staff writer , On Wednesday February 3, 2010, 3:21 pm

As terrible as it is to lose your house to foreclosure, at least it's a relief to put your biggest financial headache behind you, right?

Wrong.

Former homeowners may still be on the hook if there's a difference between what they owed on their mortgage and what the bank could sell it for at auction. And these "deficiency judgments" are ticking time bombs that can explode years after borrowers lose their homes.

It can even happen to people who got their bank to approve them selling their home for less than it is worth.

Vanessa Corey, for example, short sold her Fredericksburg, Va., home in April 2008. She and her husband built the house in 2004, but setbacks, both personal (divorce) and professional (housing bust), made it impossible for the real estate agent to keep her home. So she negotiated the short sale and thought that was the end of it.

"My understanding was that the deficiency was negotiated away," she said. "Then, last November, I got a letter from a lawyer telling me I owed my lender $65,000. I had to declare bankruptcy. There was no way I could pay it."

Many homeowners are now in the same boat. And not just those who took out bigger loans than they could afford or who did so called "liar loans" where they didn't have to verify their income.

Because of falling home prices, borrowers who always paid their mortgage but who have run into unforeseen circumstances -- like unemployment or a job transfer -- can no longer sell their homes for what they owe. As a result, they are being forced to short sell or foreclose and are getting caught up in deficiency judgments.

"After the banks foreclose, it's very common now to have large deficiencies with houses not worth the balances owed," said Don Lampe, a North Carolina real estate attorney.

Lenders mostly declined comment. Although Corey's lender, BB&T did indicate it was pursuing more deficiency judgments.

"They follow the rise and fall of foreclosures," said the spokeswoman, who would not discuss Corey's account.

Can they come after you?

Whether banks can and will pursue deficiency judgments depends on many factors, including what state the borrower lives in and whether there's a second mortgage or other liens. But if borrowers ignore the possibility of deficiencies, it could haunt them.

"Once they have a judgment, they can pursue you anywhere," said Richard Zaretsky, a board-certified real estate attorney in West Palm Beach, Fla. "They can ask for financial records, have your wages garnished and, if you fail to respond, a judge can put you in jail."

In the case of foreclosure, lenders can pursue deficiencies in more than 30 states, including Florida, New York and Texas, according to the U.S. Foreclosure Network, an organization of mortgage law firms.

Some states, such as California, are "non-recourse" and don't allow deficiency judgments. But, even there, if the original loan was refinanced, some or all of it may be subject to claims.

Deficiency judgments on short sales and deeds-in-lieu can happen in many more places. In these cases, extinguishing the debt is often a matter of negotiating with the bank.

But even when lenders are willing, many borrowers may not be aware that they have to ask for release. So, if you are pursuing a short sale, be sure your attorney asks the bank to release you from any further obligation.

"People shouldn't have a false sense of security that a deficiency judgment may not be later sought," Zaretsky said.

He expects many will be filed over the next few years, based on the fact that banks have sold many of these accounts to collection agencies and other third parties, at discount.

"The parties who bought those notes wouldn't have paid money for them unless they had the intention of acting," Zaretsky said.

Ticking time bomb

What can be scary is that the judgments don't have to be obtained immediately. Lenders or collection agencies may wait until debtors have recovered financially before they swoop in. In Florida, the bank can wait up to five years to file. Once the court grants a judgment, the lender has 20 years there to collect, with interest.

It doesn't have to be a large amount of debt for a lender or collection agency to come after borrowers. Richard Varno and his wife short sold their Nashville home back in 2004 after he lost his job.

It wasn't until 2008, when the second lien holder asked him for $25,000, that he realized he still was liable.

"I told them, 'Hey, you guys released the title,'" he said. "As far as I know, I'm off the hook."

He wasn't. Releasing title does not necessarily end the debt. It's complicated because of variations in state law, but, generally, a mortgage has two parts: a pledge of collateral, represented by the home, and a promise to pay off the loan.

Lenders may release property liens in order to facilitate short sales without releasing borrowers from their obligations to pay under the promissory notes. The secured debt can convert to an unsecured one after the sale.

Zaretsky had one client who was so relieved to have arranged a short sale that he signed every paper his real estate agent shoved at him, even a confession that clearly stated he still owed the debt.

"He had no idea what he was doing," said Zaretsky. "All the lender had to do was go to court to convert the confession into a deficiency judgment."

Lenders are also very inconsistent. One of Zaretsky's short-sale clients was ready, willing and able to pay, but the bank did not even ask; another lender always reserves the right to pursue the deficiency.

Strategic defaults

Sometimes lenders go after borrowers walking away from their homes if they have other assets, according to Florida real estate attorney Larry Tolchinsky.

"Banks are pulling credit reports to see if it's a strategic default," he said. "If you're behind on all your other payments, you're okay. But if you're not, they'll come after you."

If borrowers have any doubts about their risks, they should seek legal advice. Or, at least, call non-profit organizations such as NeighborWorks for advice. According to Doug Robinson, a NeighborWorks spokesman, its counselors always try to negotiate away deficiencies when they facilitate short sales or deeds-in-lieu.

"We don't favor any short-sale contracts that leave any deficiency that can be pursued," he said.

Robinson himself knows what can happen. He paid off a deficiency after his own New Jersey house went through foreclosure 11 years ago.
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Soul Crusher

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Re: America...what A Wonderful Country...Yeah Right
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2010, 12:55:29 PM »
This is nothing new.  This is first year law school stuff. 

SAMSON123

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Re: America...what A Wonderful Country...Yeah Right
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2010, 04:44:46 PM »
This is nothing new.  This is first year law school stuff. 

Forget the first year law stuff...People are being DECEIVED again in thinking that once their home is foreclosed on essentially it's over. Now they are finding out the banks are trying to come after them with law suits. Now as I said before...Obama BAILED OUT THE BANKS...it seems everyone has forgotten this little side note. He paid for their loss insofar as these mortgages...Why then are the banks going after the former homeowners???
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Hugo Chavez

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Re: America...what A Wonderful Country...Yeah Right
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2010, 05:14:43 PM »
samson, you don't hate your country because bad people are doing bad things in and to it.  you target the bad people as what's wrong, not the country.  you're like blaming the apple for having a worm. lol...  and if you expect people to no longer love their country over it, why would you expect they should give a shit about fighting to fix problems?

Soul Crusher

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Re: America...what A Wonderful Country...Yeah Right
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2010, 05:41:21 PM »
Every situation is different.  If someone decides to walk away from their mortgage because they no longer feel like paying, and have tons of assets in the bank, they deserve to pay. 

On the other hand, if the person was told they would be off the hook and was hood winked, thats a different situation altogether and they shoulkd have gotten it in writng.

This is not as cut and dry as you think. 

SAMSON123

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Re: America...what A Wonderful Country...Yeah Right
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2010, 06:06:08 PM »
samson, you don't hate your country because bad people are doing bad things in and to it.  you target the bad people as what's wrong, not the country.  you're like blaming the apple for having a worm. lol...  and if you expect people to no longer love their country over it, why would you expect they should give a shit about fighting to fix problems?

Maybe i should have added more to the article to justify the title. As I look at Yahoo, various newspapers, internet websites showcasing what is happening in america I am just surprised to see and hear people still saying I LOVE AMERICA...I LOVE MY COUNTRY. I am like WHAT??? Your country (outside of the physical land) has been devoured by patriot act policies, loss of privacy, nightmare airline travel procedures, gun confiscation, the forever rising taxes, education system nightmare, foreclosures (one every seven seconds), job losses, outsourcing, land and cattle confiscations, attempts at forcing vaccinations, rogue police throughout the nation etc etc. I look at the LACK OF REACTION from americans and the violent reactions in every other country on the planet when their government try doing something against the will of the people. In other nations the people vocalize their contempt of their country as it relates to the governing body and they fight:politically, socially, spiritually, physically, to bring about changes. Americans seem to sit and complain, argue and then they quickly fizzle. I think if america ever really stood up to their government there would be a world wide reaction in all nations at once as every people begins to realize in unison that things are NOT getting better anywhere, but rather will only get better if they MAKE IT BETTER. With the lack of action on behalf of america, many in the world believe that things in america are great and therefore they focus on leaving their nation(s) and going to america. When they realize that rogue world governments everywhere are the cause of the troubles world wide, then they will change their focus and work toward getting leadership in their own nations that reflects the desires of the people. Hopefully when american see more of the world going ballistic and bringing CHANGE (not that Obama change, but real change) then just maybe they too will put down those X Boxes, reality shows, delusions of what is really important and literally and figuratively will grab the pitchforks, hot tar, feathers, guns, and guillotines and make the necessary changes to make america the wonderful nation they only think it is.
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Soul Crusher

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Re: America...what A Wonderful Country...Yeah Right
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2010, 06:16:23 PM »
Maybe i should have added more to the article to justify the title. As I look at Yahoo, various newspapers, internet websites showcasing what is happening in america I am just surprised to see and hear people still saying I LOVE AMERICA...I LOVE MY COUNTRY. I am like WHAT??? Your country (outside of the physical land) has been devoured by patriot act policies, loss of privacy, nightmare airline travel procedures, gun confiscation, the forever rising taxes, education system nightmare, foreclosures (one every seven seconds), job losses, outsourcing, land and cattle confiscations, attempts at forcing vaccinations, rogue police throughout the nation etc etc. I look at the LACK OF REACTION from americans and the violent reactions in every other country on the planet when their government try doing something against the will of the people. In other nations the people vocalize their contempt of their country as it relates to the governing body and they fight:politically, socially, spiritually, physically, to bring about changes. Americans seem to sit and complain, argue and then they quickly fizzle. I think if america ever really stood up to their government there would be a world wide reaction in all nations at once as every people begins to realize in unison that things are NOT getting better anywhere, but rather will only get better if they MAKE IT BETTER. With the lack of action on behalf of america, many in the world believe that things in america are great and therefore they focus on leaving their nation(s) and going to america. When they realize that rogue world governments everywhere are the cause of the troubles world wide, then they will change their focus and work toward getting leadership in their own nations that reflects the desires of the people. Hopefully when american see more of the world going ballistic and bringing CHANGE (not that Obama change, but real change) then just maybe they too will put down those X Boxes, reality shows, delusions of what is really important and literally and figuratively will grab the pitchforks, hot tar, feathers, guns, and guillotines and make the necessary changes to make america the wonderful nation they only think it is.

Funny you mention that Samson.  They are trying a 25% tax increase in a city near me and people were complaining.  When I told them that you cant pay cops fire and teachers 100k plus benes and up they looked at me like I was crazy. 

People are just stupid and cant do basic math or see things for what they are. 

Sadly, nothing will change until ad unless we have a total collapse.   

Hugo Chavez

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Re: America...what A Wonderful Country...Yeah Right
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2010, 06:28:28 PM »
Maybe i should have added more to the article to justify the title. As I look at Yahoo, various newspapers, internet websites showcasing what is happening in america I am just surprised to see and hear people still saying I LOVE AMERICA...I LOVE MY COUNTRY. I am like WHAT??? Your country (outside of the physical land) has been devoured by patriot act policies, loss of privacy, nightmare airline travel procedures, gun confiscation, the forever rising taxes, education system nightmare, foreclosures (one every seven seconds), job losses, outsourcing, land and cattle confiscations, attempts at forcing vaccinations, rogue police throughout the nation etc etc. I look at the LACK OF REACTION from americans and the violent reactions in every other country on the planet when their government try doing something against the will of the people. In other nations the people vocalize their contempt of their country as it relates to the governing body and they fight:politically, socially, spiritually, physically, to bring about changes. Americans seem to sit and complain, argue and then they quickly fizzle. I think if america ever really stood up to their government there would be a world wide reaction in all nations at once as every people begins to realize in unison that things are NOT getting better anywhere, but rather will only get better if they MAKE IT BETTER. With the lack of action on behalf of america, many in the world believe that things in america are great and therefore they focus on leaving their nation(s) and going to america. When they realize that rogue world governments everywhere are the cause of the troubles world wide, then they will change their focus and work toward getting leadership in their own nations that reflects the desires of the people. Hopefully when american see more of the world going ballistic and bringing CHANGE (not that Obama change, but real change) then just maybe they too will put down those X Boxes, reality shows, delusions of what is really important and literally and figuratively will grab the pitchforks, hot tar, feathers, guns, and guillotines and make the necessary changes to make america the wonderful nation they only think it is.
to this post, I go back to my above post which applies even more to this post!!!  What do you propose?  People bail on giving a shit?  What is the incentive in seeing something fixed that you don't give a shit about?

headhuntersix

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Re: America...what A Wonderful Country...Yeah Right
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2010, 10:26:32 PM »
Funny..what other country has 350 million plus people, responsible for the security of more the half the world, responsible for half the food production, resposible for securing trade routes etc etc  etc..that does as well as us. We're not perfect but having seen most of the world..nobody touches us.
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drkaje

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Re: America...what A Wonderful Country...Yeah Right
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2010, 05:03:35 AM »
Funny..what other country has 350 million plus people, responsible for the security of more the half the world, responsible for half the food production, resposible for securing trade routes etc etc  etc..that does as well as us. We're not perfect but having seen most of the world..nobody touches us.

QFFT!!

No one is really stupid enough to believe the banks are finished with you following a foreclosure. Articles like this are just ways to create more perceived victims of the US's financial mess.

A big chunk of those people couldn't ever truly afford their houses to begin with. No one wants to say shit like that because it's called "blaming the victim" and lets some of those greedy banks get a free pass, LOL! Banks were doing sneaky shit but many people were doing stupid shit like; risky mortgages, buying houses their income was going to grow into, or using HELOCs, 2nd or 3rd mortgages to buy shiny stuff, betting the house would appreciate and then re-finance, etc...

There's plenty of blame to go around but no one ever asks "Why'd you think buying a house that costs 5 or 6 times your income was a great idea?".

headhuntersix

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Re: America...what A Wonderful Country...Yeah Right
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2010, 05:28:10 AM »
Cause and effect. Hey gotta a pulse, here's a morgage. I bought several houses during the "bubble"...never more then I could afford. I don't understand people buying homes in the half million range...who make less then 40K a year..that shit happened. Those ARM loans..were perfect for people like me who move all the time...I did one and sold well before the 5 year mark. These people got what they deserved. The banks did this shit to themselves and we're all being fucked for it.
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drkaje

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Re: America...what A Wonderful Country...Yeah Right
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2010, 05:34:34 AM »
Cause and effect. Hey gotta a pulse, here's a morgage. I bought several houses during the "bubble"...never more then I could afford. I don't understand people buying homes in the half million range...who make less then 40K a year..that shit happened. Those ARM loans..were perfect for people like me who move all the time...I did one and sold well before the 5 year mark. These people got what they deserved. The banks did this shit to themselves and we're all being fucked for it.

There were a lot of interest only, no/low documentation loans too.

Soul Crusher

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Re: America...what A Wonderful Country...Yeah Right
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2010, 05:35:46 AM »
There were a lot of interest only, no/low documentation loans too.

We need to let the damn market work for fucks sake! 

Homes are still over-priced and all these bailouts and whining is causing distortions in the market so that we can get to a true balanced price.

 


headhuntersix

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Re: America...what A Wonderful Country...Yeah Right
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2010, 05:51:11 AM »
There were a lot of interest only, no/low documentation loans too.

How the hell does that work...my 3rd home..they asked for blood. If I were some acorn sponsored minority, they would have accepted a napkin with some crayon on it. This happened because people were stupid and greedy...no need for more regulations....just common sense.
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drkaje

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Re: America...what A Wonderful Country...Yeah Right
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2010, 05:52:26 AM »
We need to let the damn market work for fucks sake! 

Homes are still over-priced and all these bailouts and whining is causing distortions in the market so that we can get to a true balanced price.

 



I don't believe that's really possible.

Generally a thing is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. If too many banks failed simultaneously, things are only worth what someone can realistically finance. Hung out with a dude who did mortgage sales in Florida and he sadly admitted one of the problems was too much financing. They were being creative and brokering mortgages on $150K homes for people earning $8/hour. Same company would turn around and find them another deal when the first mortgage was unaffordable. They also were loosening up credit standards and giving people mortgages with credit scores too low for new cell phone contracts. Hell yeah the banks were greedy and these practices drove up home prices but someone making $8/hr can't afford a $150K home no matter how entitled they might feel to it.

headhuntersix

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Re: America...what A Wonderful Country...Yeah Right
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2010, 06:04:29 AM »
This is exactly right.  This also overinflated home prices. I don't know what 150K bought in Florida but in Kansas I got 2 acres..a 2400 square ft home..a pond w/fish  and a good sized shed. I had a raised deck....massive garage, all landscaped and no nearby neighbors. I guess its all relative. I could not have even come close to buying that house in Mass, where I'm orginally from.
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Soul Crusher

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Re: America...what A Wonderful Country...Yeah Right
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2010, 06:05:25 AM »
I don't believe that's really possible.

Generally a thing is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. If too many banks failed simultaneously, things are only worth what someone can realistically finance. Hung out with a dude who did mortgage sales in Florida and he sadly admitted one of the problems was too much financing. They were being creative and brokering mortgages on $150K homes for people earning $8/hour. Same company would turn around and find them another deal when the first mortgage was unaffordable. They also were loosening up credit standards and giving people mortgages with credit scores too low for new cell phone contracts. Hell yeah the banks were greedy and these practices drove up home prices but someone making $8/hr can't afford a $150K home no matter how entitled they might feel to it.

Yes, but homes are still WAY OVERPRICED and keeping many people on the sidelines who otherwise would buy these homes.