Author Topic: Robert Reich: Do it with 51 votes  (Read 5500 times)

James

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Re: Robert Reich: Do it with 51 votes
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2010, 12:01:04 PM »
Quote
Wrong!!!

Heart disease deaths (most recent) by country
# 1    Slovakia: 216 per 100,000 people  
# 2    Hungary: 192.1 per 100,000 people  
# 3    Ireland: 152.6 per 100,000 people  
# 4    Czech Republic: 148.6 per 100,000 people  
# 5    Finland: 143.8 per 100,000 people  
# 6    New Zealand: 127.3 per 100,000 people  
# 7    United Kingdom: 122 per 100,000 people  
# 8    Iceland: 115.4 per 100,000 people  
# 9    Norway: 112.5 per 100,000 people  
# 10    Australia: 110.9 per 100,000 people  
# 11    Sweden: 110.1 per 100,000 people  
# 12    Austria: 109.3 per 100,000 people  
# 13    United States: 106.5 per 100,000 people  
# 14    Germany: 106.1 per 100,000 people  
# 15    Denmark: 105.4 per 100,000 people  
# 16    Canada: 94.9 per 100,000 people  
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_hea_dis_dea-health-heart-disease-deaths

Other misadventures during surgical and medical care (per capita) (most recent) by country
# 1    Luxembourg: 2.13415 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 2    Hungary: 0.79944 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 3    Estonia: 0.750188 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 4    Norway: 0.653168 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 5    Austria: 0.610874 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 6    Slovenia: 0.497265 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 7    New Zealand: 0.495663 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 8    Latvia: 0.436681 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 9    Panama: 0.318471 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 10    Korea, South: 0.308382 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 11    Uruguay: 0.29274 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 12    Lithuania: 0.278009 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 13    Puerto Rico: 0.255689 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 14    Costa Rica: 0.249004 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 15    Moldova: 0.224467 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 16    Chile: 0.187723 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 17    Slovakia: 0.184128 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 18    Denmark: 0.184094 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 19    Nicaragua: 0.182983 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 20    Israel: 0.159312 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 21    Paraguay: 0.15753 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 22    Germany: 0.145576 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 23    United States: 0.131875 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 24    Netherlands: 0.121899 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 25    Sweden: 0.111086 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 26    Dominican Republic: 0.110497 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 27    Australia: 0.099552 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 28    Romania: 0.0895656 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 29    Ecuador: 0.0748279 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 30    Japan: 0.062786 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 31    Canada: 0.0609663 deaths per 1 million peo  
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/mor_oth_mis_dur_sur_and_med_car_percap-surgical-medical-care-per-capita

Unintentional cut, puncture, perforation, haemorrhage during medical care (per capita) (most recent) by country
# 1    Iceland: 3.36999 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 2    Estonia: 3.00075 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 3    Costa Rica: 1.49402 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 4    Slovenia: 1.4918 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 5    Latvia: 1.31004 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 6    Denmark: 1.10457 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 7    New Zealand: 0.991326 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 8    Hungary: 0.79944 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 9    Moldova: 0.673401 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 10    Austria: 0.488699 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 11    Germany: 0.460992 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 12    Cuba: 0.440645 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 13    United States: 0.432821 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 14    Kyrgyzstan: 0.388651 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 15    Dominican Republic: 0.331492 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 16    Israel: 0.318624 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 17    Panama: 0.318471 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 18    Uruguay: 0.29274 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 19    Lithuania: 0.278009 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 20    Poland: 0.25935 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 21    Puerto Rico: 0.255689 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 22    Croatia: 0.22242 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 23    Norway: 0.217723 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 24    Czech Republic: 0.195293 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 25    Finland: 0.191461 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 26    Slovakia: 0.184128 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 27    Nicaragua: 0.182983 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 28    Netherlands: 0.182849 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 29    Mexico: 0.178903 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 30    Australia: 0.149328 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 31    Japan: 0.13342 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 32    Egypt: 0.11612 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 33    Sweden: 0.111086 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 34    Thailand: 0.109058 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 35    Korea, South: 0.102794 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 36    Argentina: 0.101168 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 37    United Kingdom: 0.0992704 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 38    Canada: 0.0914495 deaths per 1 million peo  
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/mor_uni_cut_pun_per_hae_dur_med_car_percap-during-medical-care-per-capita

Sequelae with surgical and medical care as external cause (per capita) (most recent) by country
# 1    Luxembourg: 2.13415 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 2    Estonia: 1.50038 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 3    Netherlands: 1.27994 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 4    Israel: 1.27449 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 5    Slovenia: 0.99453 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 6    Austria: 0.610874 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 7    Latvia: 0.436681 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 8    Kuwait: 0.428082 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 9    Nicaragua: 0.365965 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 10    Ecuador: 0.299312 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 11    Australia: 0.298656 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 12    United States: 0.28742 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 13    Argentina: 0.278213 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 14    Lithuania: 0.278009 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 15    Puerto Rico: 0.255689 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 16    Croatia: 0.22242 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 17    Sweden: 0.222173 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 18    Norway: 0.217723 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 19    Finland: 0.191461 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 20    Korea, South: 0.185029 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 21    Slovakia: 0.184128 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 22    Brazil: 0.171939 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 23    Germany: 0.157708 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 24    Paraguay: 0.15753 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 25    Egypt: 0.11612 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 26    Dominican Republic: 0.110497 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 27    Japan: 0.109875 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 28    Poland: 0.10374 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 29    Hungary: 0.09993 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 30    Czech Republic: 0.0976467 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 31    Cuba: 0.088129 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 32    Chile: 0.0625743 deaths per 1 million peo  
# 33    Canada: 0.0609663 deaths per 1 million peo  
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/mor_seq_wit_sur_and_med_car_as_ext_cau_percap-care-external-cause-per-capita


Heart Disease and death statistics, has to do mainly with diet, and hereditary, not how good a cardiac surgeon is.

Plus those statistics above have to do with people who lived in a partucualr Country, and we have been invaded by a 3rd world country (Mexico) and  these people come her with numerous health problems already.



Skeeter

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Re: Robert Reich: Do it with 51 votes
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2010, 12:04:57 PM »

Heart Disease and death statistics, has to do mainly with diet, and hereditary, not how good a cardiac surgeon is.


That wouldn't explain the other statistics I posted.

kcballer

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Re: Robert Reich: Do it with 51 votes
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2010, 12:08:03 PM »
Hmmm i think we can all agree Luxembourg is not a place to get surgery.
Abandon every hope...

James

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Re: Robert Reich: Do it with 51 votes
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2010, 12:08:56 PM »
Quote
That wouldn't explain the other statistics I posted.

We have been invaded by a 3rd world country (Mexico) and these people come here with numerous health problems already. plus this over fills our Emergency Rooms,  The ObamaCare Plan does noting to solve this, in fact it would make it even worse.


Plus, Why did the Canadian Premier come to the US for Heart Surgery ?


"Canadian Premier on US health procedure: 'This was my heart, my choice and my health'...

An unapologetic Danny Williams says he was aware his trip to the United States for heart surgery earlier this month would spark outcry, but he concluded his personal health trumped any public fallout over the controversial decision.

In an interview with The Canadian Press, Williams said he went to Miami to have a "minimally invasive" surgery for an ailment first detected nearly a year ago, based on the advice of his doctors.

"This was my heart, my choice and my health," Williams said late Monday from his condominium in Sarasota, Fla.

"I did not sign away my right to get the best possible health care for myself when I entered politics."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5h0QC7bditrEb3wYz_6_b-gsGGDxA

________________________ ________________________ ________________________ ________________________ _

So Politicians from Counties that have Universal Health Care go elsewhere when it is their health on the line,  

and...

Our very own Politicians have exempted themselves from getting Obama Care

Anyone still think this pos is a good thing ?

Skeeter

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Re: Robert Reich: Do it with 51 votes
« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2010, 12:18:40 PM »

We have been invaded by a 3rd world country (Mexico) and  these people come her with numerous health problems already.


Plus, Why did the Canadian Premier come to the US for Heart Surgery ?

So Politicians from Counties that have Universal Health Care go elsewhere when it is their health on the line,  

and...

Our very own Politicians have exempted themselves from getting Obama Care

Anyone still think this pos is a good thing ?


If you would post the entire article you would know.

My heart, my choice,' Williams says, defending decision for U.S. heart surgery
By Tara Brautigam (CP) – 18 hours ago

An unapologetic Danny Williams says he was aware his trip to the United States for heart surgery earlier this month would spark outcry, but he concluded his personal health trumped any public fallout over the controversial decision.

In an interview with The Canadian Press, Williams said he went to Miami to have a "minimally invasive" surgery for an ailment first detected nearly a year ago, based on the advice of his doctors.

"This was my heart, my choice and my health," Williams said late Monday from his condominium in Sarasota, Fla.

"I did not sign away my right to get the best possible health care for myself when I entered politics."

The 60-year-old Williams said doctors detected a heart murmur last spring and told him that one of his heart valves wasn't closing properly, creating a leakage.

He said he was told at the time that the problem was "moderate" and that he should come back for a checkup in six months.

Eight months later, in December, his doctors told him the problem had become severe and urged him to get his valve repaired immediately or risk heart failure, he said.

His doctors in Canada presented him with two options - a full or partial sternotomy, both of which would've required breaking bones, he said.

He said he spoke with and provided his medical information to a leading cardiac surgeon in New Jersey who is also from Newfoundland and Labrador. He advised him to seek treatment at the Mount Sinai Medical Center in Miami.

That's where he was treated by Dr. Joseph Lamelas, a cardiac surgeon who has performed more than 8,000 open-heart surgeries.

Williams said Lamelas made an incision under his arm that didn't require any bone breakage.

"I wanted to get in, get out fast, get back to work in a short period of time," the premier said.


Williams said he didn't announce his departure south of the border because he didn't want to create "a media gong show," but added that criticism would've followed him had he chose to have surgery in Canada.

"I would've been criticized if I had stayed in Canada and had been perceived as jumping a line or a wait list. ... I accept that. That's public life," he said.


"(But) this is not a unique phenomenon to me. This is something that happens with lots of families throughout this country, so I make no apologies for that."

Williams said his decision to go to the U.S. did not reflect any lack of faith in his own province's health care system.

"I have the utmost confidence in our own health care system in Newfoundland and Labrador, but we are just over half a million people," he said.

"We do whatever we can to provide the best possible health care that we can in Newfoundland and Labrador. The Canadian health care system has a great reputation, but this is a very specialized piece of surgery that had to be done and I went to somebody who's doing this three or four times a day, five, six days a week."

He quipped that he had "a heart of a 40-year-old, so that gives me 20 years new life," and said he intends to run in the next provincial election in 2011.

"I'm probably going to be around for a long time, hopefully, if God willing," he said.

"God forbid for the Canadian public I won't be around longer than ever."

Williams also said he paid for the treatment, but added he would seek any refunds he would be eligible for in Canada.

"If I'm entitled to any reimbursement from any Canadian health care system or any provincial health care system, then obviously I will apply for that as anybody else would," he said.

"But I wrote out the cheque myself and paid for it myself and to this point, I haven't even looked into the possibility of any reimbursement. I don't know what I'm entitled to, if anything, and if it's nothing, then so be it."

He is expected back at work in early March.

Copyright © 2010 The Canadian Press. All rights reserved

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5h0QC7bditrEb3wYz_6_b-gsGGDxA




We also have to contend with Americans abusing our healthcare system.
http://www.nytimes.com/1993/12/20/world/americans-filching-free-health-care-in-canada.html?pagewanted=1

Skeeter

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Re: Robert Reich: Do it with 51 votes
« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2010, 12:20:41 PM »
The debate over American healthcare is not for me to be involved with, I just don't like seeing so many people bashing the Canadian healthcare system. It isn't as bad as it is being made out to be.

James

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Re: Robert Reich: Do it with 51 votes
« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2010, 12:21:18 PM »
Skeeter,

Why did he leave Canada, and come to the USA to get surgery ?



Skeeter

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Re: Robert Reich: Do it with 51 votes
« Reply #32 on: February 23, 2010, 12:25:13 PM »
According to the interview he didn't want to wait like everybody else and had the money to fork out.

Canadians are generally quite happy with our healthcare system according to a recent poll.

Don't have link at this moment but take my word for it.

James

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Re: Robert Reich: Do it with 51 votes
« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2010, 12:26:58 PM »
Quote
According to the interview he didn't want to wait like everybody else and had the money to fork out.

Canadians are generally quite happy with our healthcare system according to a recent poll.

Don't have link at this moment but take my word for it.

So he didn't want to have to wait like everyone else does, so he left Canada, and went to a place where he did not have to wait (USA)

CASE FUCKING CLOSED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Robert Reich: Do it with 51 votes
« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2010, 12:27:58 PM »
According to the interview he didn't want to wait like everybody else and had the money to fork out.


EXACTLY!!!!

What that means is that, if someone without his means were in the same situation, he'd be SCREWED.

That's why we don't want socialized healthcare in this country.

Dick Cheney just had a heart attack. For some strange reason, he didn't jump the border to get his problems fixed. He stayed right here in the USA.

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Re: Robert Reich: Do it with 51 votes
« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2010, 12:28:43 PM »
EXACTLY!!!!

What that means is that, if someone without his means were in the same situation, they'd be SCREWED.

That's why we don't want socialized healthcare in this country.

Dick Cheney just had a heart attack. For some strange reason, he didn't jump the border to get his problems fixed. He stayed right here in the USA.

Exactly.  Fuck Obama and his merry band of marxists. 

James

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Re: Robert Reich: Do it with 51 votes
« Reply #36 on: February 23, 2010, 12:34:20 PM »
Universal Health Care !!!

 Great for the people who can afford to fly to another Country, when you need major surgery, and cant wait like the common folks have to!!!

Just like the Canadian Premier did recently !!!

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Re: Robert Reich: Do it with 51 votes
« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2010, 12:59:56 PM »
Universal Health Care !!!

 Great for the people who can afford to fly to another Country, when you need major surgery, and cant wait like the common folks have to!!!

Just like the Canadian Premier did recently !!!


So much for the "shared sacrifice" flap.

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Re: Robert Reich: Do it with 51 votes
« Reply #38 on: February 23, 2010, 01:03:00 PM »
wow it amazes me that the people here can not see what the best health care system would be.  A blend of the two.  On one hand you have a universal care of all, that everyone pays into (much like canada) that is administered via states and is a tax deduction from state income tax.  Next you have the option to purchase private health care from any insurance company in the united states (provided they will take you).  You have the best of both worlds.  Private care if you have the money and universal care if you can not afford a private care.  This is a damn site better than letting people die and still keeps the insurance companies busy because as you say people will have to wait for universal care, i'm sure those who are not covered don't mind because guess what? It's better to be covered than not.  And those with private insurance go about their business as if nothing happened and still get to deduct the universal fee from their income taxes.  
Abandon every hope...

James

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Re: Robert Reich: Do it with 51 votes
« Reply #39 on: February 23, 2010, 01:20:48 PM »
Quote
wow it amazes me that the people here can not see what the best health care system would be.  A blend of the two.  On one hand you have a universal care of all, that everyone pays into (much like canada) that is administered via states and is a tax deduction from state income tax.  Next you have the option to purchase private health care from any insurance company in the united states (provided they will take you).  You have the best of both worlds.  Private care if you have the money and universal care if you can not afford a private care.  This is a damn site better than letting people die and still keeps the insurance companies busy because as you say people will have to wait for universal care, i'm sure those who are not covered don't mind because guess what? It's better to be covered than not.  And those with private insurance go about their business as if nothing happened and still get to deduct the universal fee from their income taxes.
 

wow, it amazes me that you are so naive.  

Universal Health Care in the United States would ruin our Health Care System.

We probably have as many illegal Aliens in this Country, as Canada has in total population.

If we already had a Universal health care system (along with Private Heath Insurance)  The Canadian Premier would not have come to the USA to get his recent Heart Surgery, as our waiting time would be longer than theirs. And our Politicians I assure you would not be waiting. ( like you and I would )



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Re: Robert Reich: Do it with 51 votes
« Reply #40 on: February 23, 2010, 01:24:36 PM »
 

wow, it amazes me that you are so naive. 

Universal Health Care in the United States would ruin our Health Care System.

We have probably have as many illegal Aliens in this Country, as Canada has in total population.

If we already had a Universal health care system (along with Private Heath Insurance)  The Canadian Premier would not have come to the USA to get his recent Heart Surgery, as our waiting time would be longer than theirs. And our Politicians I assure you would not be waiting either ( like you and I would )



Not true.  Private would still be private.  There may be a wait time for universally covered people but anyone with any money or sense would take the best coverage available to them.  If they choose to be covered by universal coverage then so be it they live with the wait times.  If you wanted to pay for it you'd get in and if you had private care you'd get the same care you get now.  Only with the added benefit that if the insurance company tries to fu*k you over you can say screw you i'm out of here and actually get coverage at a reasonable price. 
Abandon every hope...

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Re: Robert Reich: Do it with 51 votes
« Reply #41 on: February 23, 2010, 01:25:57 PM »
Not true.  Private would still be private.  There may be a wait time for universally covered people but anyone with any money or sense would take the best coverage available to them.  If they choose to be covered by universal coverage then so be it they live with the wait times.  If you wanted to pay for it you'd get in and if you had private care you'd get the same care you get now.  Only with the added benefit that if the insurance company tries to fu*k you over you can say screw you i'm out of here and actually get coverage at a reasonable price. 

Again - you think the Fairy God Govt is going to make everything ok.  it doesnt work that way.     

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Re: Robert Reich: Do it with 51 votes
« Reply #42 on: February 23, 2010, 01:28:22 PM »
Again - you think the Fairy God Govt is going to make everything ok.  it doesnt work that way.     


Not to mention how unconstitutional the who mess is, but why let that stand in the way.
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Re: Robert Reich: Do it with 51 votes
« Reply #43 on: February 23, 2010, 01:30:12 PM »

Not to mention how unconstitutional the who mess is, but why let that stand in the way.

I personally think the term "Fairy God Govt" is the best thing I have come up with yet for what most libs expect of the govt to do for them at the expense of everyone else. 

James

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Re: Robert Reich: Do it with 51 votes
« Reply #44 on: February 23, 2010, 01:31:34 PM »
Quote
Not true.  Private would still be private.  There may be a wait time for universally covered people but anyone with any money or sense would take the best coverage available to them.  If they choose to be covered by universal coverage then so be it they live with the wait times.  If you wanted to pay for it you'd get in and if you had private care you'd get the same care you get now.  Only with the added benefit that if the insurance company tries to fu*k you over you can say screw you i'm out of here and actually get coverage at a reasonable price.  


What you described above would be against the law: to have one waiting time for people with Private Health Insurance and another list for people with Universal Health Care.





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Re: Robert Reich: Do it with 51 votes
« Reply #45 on: February 23, 2010, 01:36:35 PM »
Again - you think the Fairy God Govt is going to make everything ok.  it doesnt work that way.     

never said they'd make everything okay, just better than they are now.  It can only get worse unless something is done.  The statistics show that the % of people dying without insurance is increasing to a preposterous level.   I see no problem with the govt having a universal plan for all with the ability to cover yourself with private insurance if you wish.  I don't see how you have an issue with that, your coverage wouldn't change for you or your family with the added bonus that if your insurance skyrocketed due to some unforeseen circumstance you'd be able to still get coverage under a universal plan.  
Abandon every hope...

kcballer

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Re: Robert Reich: Do it with 51 votes
« Reply #46 on: February 23, 2010, 01:38:59 PM »

What you described above would be against the law, to have one waiting time for people with Private Health Insurance and another list for people with Universal Health Care.



Uh no.  Please see New Zealand and Australia as examples of universal care countries that also have private hospitals and insurance.

Please also see Canada, they too have private hospitals but as explained they are few and far between because you can not get private insurance there.  Hence why a hybrid would be the best solution because in Canada you would have to pay out of pocket rather than have insurance cover your private stay.  Please also see many European countries where the same is true. 

 8)
Abandon every hope...

James

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Re: Robert Reich: Do it with 51 votes
« Reply #47 on: February 23, 2010, 01:48:23 PM »
Quote
never said they'd make everything okay, just better than they are now.  It can only get worse unless something is done.  The statistics show that the % of people dying without insurance is increasing to a preposterous level.   I see no problem with the govt having a universal plan for all with the ability to cover yourself with private insurance if you wish.  I don't see how you have an issue with that, your coverage wouldn't change for you or your family with the added bonus that if your insurance skyrocketed due to some unforeseen circumstance you'd be able to still get coverage under a universal plan
.  

Of course you dont see a problem. Not until your Mother, Father, and or Child was put on a waiting list to get a major life saving surgery, while the Politician that you voted for flew to another Country to get the same surgery, without out having to wait.

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Re: Robert Reich: Do it with 51 votes
« Reply #48 on: February 23, 2010, 01:56:35 PM »
.  

Of course you dont see a problem. Not until your Mother, Father, and or Child was put on a waiting list to get a major life saving surgery, while the Politician that you voted for flew to another Country to get the same surgery, without out having to wait.

Same thing happens now except you get to see your mother, father, child be denied care because it was deemed a pre existing condition and you've paid your premiums on time for years or better yet you get to see your house taken from you because your premiums have gone up so much you can't afford to have both so you choose life and living in a basement. 

The poor get fu*ked no matter what but under a hybrid plan at least they get care and coverage and the amount of people saved would far outweigh those who died waiting. 
Abandon every hope...

Kazan

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Re: Robert Reich: Do it with 51 votes
« Reply #49 on: February 23, 2010, 01:57:37 PM »
Uh no.  Please see New Zealand and Australia as examples of universal care countries that also have private hospitals and insurance.

Please also see Canada, they too have private hospitals but as explained they are few and far between because you can not get private insurance there.  Hence why a hybrid would be the best solution because in Canada you would have to pay out of pocket rather than have insurance cover your private stay.  Please also see many European countries where the same is true. 

 8)

Who gives a shit about other countries? If they want a nanny state thats up to them. I don't know where you get this crazy idea that somehow everyone is entitled to "health care/insurance" but you are not. Doctors are trained porfessionals that you have to pay for service. The US constitution sets the rules for the federal government, they have no authority, if the states want to do it thats up to them and the residents of that state. It is not the right, duty, or obligation of the Federal Government.
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