Robert Reich: Do it with 51 votes

[James]

Uh no.  Please see New Zealand and Australia as examples of universal care countries that also have private hospitals and insurance.
Please also see Canada, they too have private hospitals but as explained they are few and far between because you can not get private insurance there.  Hence why a hybrid would be the best solution because in Canada you would have to pay out of pocket rather than have insurance cover your private stay.  Please also see many European countries where the same is true.  

I have seen it, and they have one waiting period on all non elective surgeries, same as in Germany, England and Canada. Plus, they have not been invaded by a 3rd Word Country, like we have, and do not have 20 to 30 million illegals waiting for Universal Health Care, which will make Canada's waiting time look fast.
 So once again, your fairy tale dream of the USA having a Universal health Care and private Insurance, with no long waiting for major surgery, is just that, a fairy tale.

[kcballer]

One waiting period? Weird!  When my brother was in New Zealand he got covered by a private hospital immediately because he had private insurance.  Same with my grandmother when she lived there.  Her hip replacement was going to take 6-12 months but because she had private coverage and money to pay for it she got it within a week.  

My girlfriends grandfather was from Canada.  He had cancer and decided he wanted private care so he paid for it in Canada.  

[Skeeter]

You guys are basing wait times with death. Waiting for surgery does not necessarily mean you will die from the wait. (I am aware that it does happen but it is rare)

The majority of Canadians are happy with our health care.
http://medicare.ca/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/nanos-poll.pdf

[James]

One waiting period? Weird!  When my brother was in New Zealand he got covered by a private hospital immediately because he had private insurance.  Same with my grandmother when she lived there.  Her hip replacement was going to take 6-12 months but because she had private coverage and money to pay for it she got it within a week.  

My girlfriends grandfather was from Canada.  He had cancer and decided he wanted private care so he paid for it in Canada.  

That was a private Hospital.  How many people live in New Zealand maybe 4 million?  We have over 300 million people.  Do you know how long it would take to build enough private Hospitals in the USA? Where are going to get all the new Doctors? We already have a nursing shortage, and now KCBaller thinks we can build  enough private Hospitals, staff them with doctors and nurses in a timely manner, and all hold hands and sing songs!

[James]

You guys are basing wait times with death. Waiting for surgery does not necessarily mean you will die from the wait. (I am aware that it does happen but it is rare)

The majority of Canadians are happy with our health care.
http://medicare.ca/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/nanos-poll.pdf

iIf it so good in Canada, why did the Canadian Premier come to the USA to get his heart surgery ?

[Skeeter]

He explained it in the article.

[kcballer]

That was a private Hospital, and how many people live in New Zealand maybe 4 million ?  We have over 300 million people  Do you know how long it would take to build enough private Hospitals in the USA ? Where are going to get all the new Doctors ? We already have a nursing shortage, and now KCBaller  thinks we can build  enough private Hospitals, staff them with doctors and nurses in a timely manner, and all hold hands and sing songs!

So you're basically saying that we can't do anything in this country, we can't produce drs, nurses or hospitals but hey we can provide death to the poor and those unfortunate enough to have a preexisting condition! yay America under James

[James]

So you're basically saying that we can't do anything in this country, we can't produce drs, nurses or hospitals but hey we can provide death to the poor and those unfortunate enough to have a preexisting condition! yay America under James

I live in reality, not some liberal fantasy land like you do.

[James]

He explained it in the article.

No, he said it with his actions, and his actions were: He got the fuck out of Canada when his life/health was on the line.

[Skeeter]

No, he said it with his actions, and his actions were: He got the fuck out of Canada when his life/health was on the line.

And went to a country with statistically more botched surgeries than his own.

Danny Williams does not speak for all Canadians.

[MCWAY]

And went to a country with statistically more botched surgeries than his own.

Danny Williams does not speak for all Canadians.

But, when HIS OWN HIDE was on the line, he didn't choose YOUR healthcare system. He chose ours.

Enough said.

[James]

And went to a country with statistically more botched surgeries than his own.

Danny Williams does not speak for all Canadians.

He spoke for his own life, and he spoke loud and clear that he preferred  the no waiting time int he USA. over the waiting line in Canada.

[James]

Skeeter, once the USA has Universal Health Care, where will many  Canadians go when they dont want to wait ?


Canadians visit U.S. to get health care

Hospitals in border cities, including Detroit, are forging lucrative arrangements with Canadian health agencies to provide care not widely available across the border.

Agreements between Detroit hospitals and the Ontario Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care for heart, imaging tests, bariatric and other services provide access to some services not immediately available in the province, said ministry spokesman David Jensen.

The agreements show how a country with a national care system -- a proposal not part of the health care changes under discussion in Congress -- copes with demand for care with U.S. partnerships, rather than building new facilities.

Michael Vujovich, 61, of Windsor was taken to Detroit's Henry Ford Hospital for an angioplasty procedure after he went to a Windsor hospital in April. Vujovich said the U.S. backup doesn't show a gap in Canada's system, but shows how it works.

"I go to the hospital in Windsor and two hours later, I'm done having angioplasty in Detroit," he said. His $38,000 bill was covered by the Ontario health ministry.

Canada eyed in the health care debate

Dany Mercado, a leukemia patient from Kitchener, Ontario, is cancer-free after getting a bone marrow transplant at the Barbara Ann Karmanos Cancer Institute in Detroit.

Told by Canadian doctors in 2007 he couldn't have the procedure there, Mercado's family and doctor appealed to Ontario health officials, who agreed to let him have the transplant in Detroit in January 2008.

The Karmanos Institute is one of several Detroit health facilities that care for Canadians needing services not widely available in Canada.

Canada, for example, has waiting times for bariatric procedures to combat obesity that can stretch to more than five years, according to a June report in the Canadian Journal of Surgery.

As a result, the Ontario Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care in April designated 13 U.S. hospitals, including five in Michigan and one more with a tentative designation, to perform bariatric surgery for Canadians

"In the last few years, we've seen more and more Canadian patients," said Dr. J. Edson Pontes, senior vice president of international medicine at the DMC. They include Canadians such as Mercado, whose care is reimbursed by Canada's health system, as well as people who pay out of pocket to avoid waiting in Canada.

Canada's U.S. backup care "speaks volumes to why we don't need government to take over health care," Scott Hagerstrom, the state director in Michigan for Americans for Prosperity, said of the Canadian arrangements with Michigan hospitals. "Their system doesn't work if they have to send us their patients."


http://www.freep.com/article/20090820/BUSINESS06/908200420/Canadians-visit-U.S.-to-get-health-care

[Skeeter]

Skeeter, once the USA has Universal Health Care, where will many  Canadians go when they dont want to wait ?


Canadians visit U.S. to get health care

Hospitals in border cities, including Detroit, are forging lucrative arrangements with Canadian health agencies to provide care not widely available across the border.

Agreements between Detroit hospitals and the Ontario Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care for heart, imaging tests, bariatric and other services provide access to some services not immediately available in the province, said ministry spokesman David Jensen.

The agreements show how a country with a national care system -- a proposal not part of the health care changes under discussion in Congress -- copes with demand for care with U.S. partnerships, rather than building new facilities.

Michael Vujovich, 61, of Windsor was taken to Detroit's Henry Ford Hospital for an angioplasty procedure after he went to a Windsor hospital in April. Vujovich said the U.S. backup doesn't show a gap in Canada's system, but shows how it works.

"I go to the hospital in Windsor and two hours later, I'm done having angioplasty in Detroit," he said. His $38,000 bill was covered by the Ontario health ministry.

http://www.freep.com/article/20090820/BUSINESS06/908200420/Canadians-visit-U.S.-to-get-health-care

More space will be freed up when uninsured Americans stop abusing our health care system.
http://www.nytimes.com/1993/12/20/world/americans-filching-free-health-care-in-canada.html?pagewanted=1

[James]

More space will be freed up when uninsured Americans stop abusing our health care system.
http://www.nytimes.com/1993/12/20/world/americans-filching-free-health-care-in-canada.html?pagewanted=1

Well considering almost 1/4 of the money you spent on Universal Health care in Ontario comes from Americans.

from the very same article you linked :

"About a quarter of the $17 billion spent on health care in Ontario, the richest and most populous province, is borrowed in the form of bonds sold to investors, many from the United States. Borrowing Costs Increase "

[Skeeter]

It would still cut down on wait times from Americans using our system.

[James]

It would still cut down on wait times from Americans using our system.

If Americans did not lend Ontario Billions of Dollars, Ontario would have no waiting line at all, because their would be no doctors to wait for.
And the fraud mentioned in that article,is just another reason to show that Universal health Care is the wrong thing to do, especially considering we border a 3rd world country (Mexico) and the fraud would bankrupt us at faster rate than our politicians are.

[Skeeter]

I agree with you that your system should not change, however our system has done quite well for Canada and it is not the "death trap" that it is made out to be.

[James]

I agree with you that your system should not change, however our system has done quite well for Canada and it is not the "death trap" that it is made out to be.

Me too.

[Soul Crusher]

I agree with you that your system should not change, however our system has done quite well for Canada and it is not the "death trap" that it is made out to be.

I agree with that, however, we already are taxed to death and to et something like that requires an additional layer of taxes our economy cant bear. 

[Skeeter]

I personally think the term "Fairy God Govt" is the best thing I have come up with yet for what most libs expect of the govt to do for them at the expense of everyone else. 

Agreed.