Author Topic: They say it's not, but it is!  (Read 3486 times)

Colossus_500

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They say it's not, but it is!
« on: March 09, 2010, 10:40:22 AM »
Eight Reasons Abortion Is in the Health Care Overhaul
frc.org

1. The legislation specifically includes it. The President's bill to amend the Senate bill leaves several abortion provisions in place. In Section 1303 it allows tax credit subsidies for plans that include abortion and leaves the abortion surcharge in place. It maintains the proposal to create a multi-state plan that includes abortion in Sec. 1334. Even worse, it would increase the Senate bill funding from $7 billion to $11 billion for community health centers in Sec. 10503 without any abortion funding restrictions. (H.R. 3590, Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.)

2. Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius has said it is. “And I would say that the Senate language, which was negotiated by Senators Barbara Boxer and Patty Murray, who are very strong defenders of women’s health services and choices for women, take a big step forward from where the House left it with the Stupak amendment, and I think do a good job making sure there are choices for women. . .That would be an accounting procedure, but everybody in the exchange would do the same thing, whether you’re male or female, whether you’re 75 or 25, you would all set aside a portion of your premium that would go into a fund.” (Sebeli us: Everyone will pay into abortion-coverage fund.)

3. Senate Democrats refused to ban it. Instead of allowing for an up or down vote on a Senate amendment similar to the Stupak Amendment in the House which bans federal funding of abortion, Senator Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) “tabled” the amendment, effectively killing it. This was the only
amendment dealt with in this way. (Vote No. 369 S.Amdt. 2962 to S.Amdt. 2786 to H.R. 3590)

4. House pro-life Democrats, who support a government takeover, say it is. “The Senate language is a significant departure from current law and is unacceptable.” (House Representative Bart Stupak (D-Mich.), February 23, 2010, CBS News)… “I think abortion’s wrong. The problem is that I’ve lived too long. When they say they can keep this money separate, I just don’t believe it.” (House Representative Marion Berry (D-Ark.), March 6, 2010, Arkansas News.)

5. House pro-abortion Democrats say it is. “The good news is that the Senate bill does allow [abortion coverage],” (Chairwoman of the House pro-abortion caucus, Dianne DeGette (D-Colo.), March 5, 2010, Washington Post.

6. The abortion industry has sent out alerts in favor of it. The abortion giant Planned Parenthood sent out alerts on March 6, 2010: “President Obama's health care reform proposal would make a real difference for the women and families who rely on Planned Parenthood. . . . and [the bill] significantly increase access to reproductive health care.” (Planned Parenthood alert, March 6, 2010.)

7. Candidate Obama said it would be included, and the Obama administration includes it in its definition of reproductive health care. Presidential candidate Barack Obama stated he “believes that reproductive health care is basic health care.” (Rhealitycheck.org questionnaire, 2008.) Secretary
of State Hillary Clinton followed up on this in 2009: “Reproductive health care includes access to abortion.” (Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, April 22, House Foreign Affairs Committee Hearing)

8. House Democratic Majority Whip Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) has indicated he wants to fix the abortion coverage problem in the Senate bill. “House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) said Thursday that lawmakers could draft separate pieces of legislation with abortion language to earn the
support of anti-abortion rights Democrats on healthcare reform legislation.” (March 4, 2010, The Hill)

Soul Crusher

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Re: They say it's not, but it is!
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2010, 10:42:33 AM »
Stupak will roll over and play dead. 


BodyProSite

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Re: They say it's not, but it is!
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2010, 10:43:06 AM »
thats just what i want to spend my money on,  some dumb c.u.n.t that cant keep her legs closed this will do nothing except give the green light to these whores that know it will be paid for

drkaje

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Re: They say it's not, but it is!
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2010, 11:26:04 AM »
Wouldn't a healthcare bill without it be unconstitutional considering abortion is legal?

Kazan

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Re: They say it's not, but it is!
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2010, 11:46:17 AM »
Wouldn't a healthcare bill without it be unconstitutional considering abortion is legal?

You are making the assumption that the healthcare bill is constitutional
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

drkaje

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Re: They say it's not, but it is!
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2010, 11:58:38 AM »
You are making the assumption that the healthcare bill is constitutional

Providing it is, excluding abortion would be the same as denying care to fat people.

newmom

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Re: They say it's not, but it is!
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2010, 12:00:11 PM »
not for nothing boys...if a woman cannot afford an abortion, Planned Parenthood does it nearly for free

Soul Crusher

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Re: They say it's not, but it is!
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2010, 12:01:28 PM »
not for nothing boys...if a woman cannot afford an abortion, Planned Parenthood does it nearly for free

Some of those psychos probably enjoy it. 

newmom

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Re: They say it's not, but it is!
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2010, 12:02:26 PM »
Some of those psychos probably enjoy it. 

um which psychos, you gonna have to narrow it down

drkaje

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Re: They say it's not, but it is!
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2010, 12:09:20 PM »
Some of those psychos probably enjoy it. 

Most of the abortions our local Planned Parenthood performs are on young girls who were victims of rape or incest. No clue if that represents the norm. Either way, abortions aren't the problem but forcing someone to keep a kid or send it to foster care may not solve things either.

newmom

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Re: They say it's not, but it is!
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2010, 12:11:11 PM »
um about the incest/rape..im sure they do go to PP but alot of women use PP as a birth control (which is utter bullshit)..I agree, foster kids are already moved around, not enough foster parents and hello who gives the foster parents money..TAX PAYERS

drkaje

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Re: They say it's not, but it is!
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2010, 12:13:22 PM »
um about the incest/rape..im sure they do go to PP but alot of women use PP as a birth control (which is utter bullshit)..I agree, foster kids are already moved around, not enough foster parents and hello who gives the foster parents money..TAX PAYERS

PP will give out BCPs and condoms. I don't really know how many people use abortion as their primary birth control, however.

newmom

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Re: They say it's not, but it is!
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2010, 12:15:48 PM »
PP will give out BCPs and condoms. I don't really know how many people use abortion as their primary birth control, however.

alot more than you want to know. No not talking from experience but I know a girl (27) whos had at least 10 (no she dont work and not once paid for them nor did the father) and she has got 5 kids

Soul Crusher

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Re: They say it's not, but it is!
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2010, 12:17:09 PM »
alot more than you want to know. No not talking from experience but I know a girl (27) whos had at least 10 (no she dont work and not once paid for them nor did the father) and she has got 5 kids

disgusting. 

newmom

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Re: They say it's not, but it is!
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2010, 12:19:46 PM »
I agree 333386, after her second set of twins born, she had her tubes tide

Dos Equis

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Re: They say it's not, but it is!
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2010, 04:14:26 PM »
Eight Reasons Abortion Is in the Health Care Overhaul
frc.org

1. The legislation specifically includes it. The President's bill to amend the Senate bill leaves several abortion provisions in place. In Section 1303 it allows tax credit subsidies for plans that include abortion and leaves the abortion surcharge in place. It maintains the proposal to create a multi-state plan that includes abortion in Sec. 1334. Even worse, it would increase the Senate bill funding from $7 billion to $11 billion for community health centers in Sec. 10503 without any abortion funding restrictions. (H.R. 3590, Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.)

2. Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius has said it is. “And I would say that the Senate language, which was negotiated by Senators Barbara Boxer and Patty Murray, who are very strong defenders of women’s health services and choices for women, take a big step forward from where the House left it with the Stupak amendment, and I think do a good job making sure there are choices for women. . .That would be an accounting procedure, but everybody in the exchange would do the same thing, whether you’re male or female, whether you’re 75 or 25, you would all set aside a portion of your premium that would go into a fund.” (Sebeli us: Everyone will pay into abortion-coverage fund.)

3. Senate Democrats refused to ban it. Instead of allowing for an up or down vote on a Senate amendment similar to the Stupak Amendment in the House which bans federal funding of abortion, Senator Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) “tabled” the amendment, effectively killing it. This was the onlyamendment dealt with in this way. (Vote No. 369 S.Amdt. 2962 to S.Amdt. 2786 to H.R. 3590)

4. House pro-life Democrats, who support a government takeover, say it is. “The Senate language is a significant departure from current law and is unacceptable.” (House Representative Bart Stupak (D-Mich.), February 23, 2010, CBS News)… “I think abortion’s wrong. The problem is that I’ve lived too long. When they say they can keep this money separate, I just don’t believe it.” (House Representative Marion Berry (D-Ark.), March 6, 2010, Arkansas News.)

5. House pro-abortion Democrats say it is. “The good news is that the Senate bill does allow [abortion coverage],” (Chairwoman of the House pro-abortion caucus, Dianne DeGette (D-Colo.), March 5, 2010, Washington Post.

6. The abortion industry has sent out alerts in favor of it. The abortion giant Planned Parenthood sent out alerts on March 6, 2010: “President Obama's health care reform proposal would make a real difference for the women and families who rely on Planned Parenthood. . . . and [the bill] significantly increase access to reproductive health care.” (Planned Parenthood alert, March 6, 2010.)

7. Candidate Obama said it would be included, and the Obama administration includes it in its definition of reproductive health care. Presidential candidate Barack Obama stated he “believes that reproductive health care is basic health care.” (Rhealitycheck.org questionnaire, 2008.) Secretary of State Hillary Clinton followed up on this in 2009: “Reproductive health care includes access to abortion.” (Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, April 22, House Foreign Affairs Committee Hearing)

8. House Democratic Majority Whip Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) has indicated he wants to fix the abortion coverage problem in the Senate bill. “House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) said Thursday that lawmakers could draft separate pieces of legislation with abortion language to earn thesupport of anti-abortion rights Democrats on healthcare reform legislation.” (March 4, 2010, The Hill)

Colossus are you saying you don't believe the president? 

"One more misunderstanding I want to clear up -- under our plan, no federal dollars will be used to fund abortions, and federal conscience laws will remain in place," the president said in an address to a joint session of Congress to sell health care reforms.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/10/redux-obama-claims-health-care-plan-cover-abortion-services/

Or are you confused because he said as a candidate that abortion would be included in government controlled health care, as he stated to Planned Parenthood in this four-minute clip:

[/youtube]

tonymctones

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Re: They say it's not, but it is!
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2010, 08:24:05 PM »
Wouldn't a healthcare bill without it be unconstitutional considering abortion is legal?
no it would not be unconstitutional...The hyde amendment already prohibits any tax dollars from being spent on abortion. The problem is that tax dollars are of course still spent on abortion even if its in a round about way. Nobody is saying that women cant have abortions although there are ways to prevent pregnancy actually to a degree of 99.99% so the arguement for that has traction. The politicians should basically follow through with the hyde amendment and see that NO tax dollars are spent on abortions...but with most things in govt if something isnt working b/c its not being implemented they simply just make a new rule instead of implementing the current one.

the right to bear arms gives us the right to own guns but the govt doesnt give me tax dollars to go buy a gun...is that unconstitutional?

Colossus_500

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Re: They say it's not, but it is!
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2010, 09:42:08 AM »
LOL!!!!! :-)

Beach, you know me too well, bro!!!

Good to see you back.  :-)

Dos Equis

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Re: They say it's not, but it is!
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2010, 10:15:52 AM »
LOL!!!!! :-)

Beach, you know me too well, bro!!!

Good to see you back.  :-)

 ;D  Thanks mang. 

drkaje

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Re: They say it's not, but it is!
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2010, 06:17:38 AM »
no it would not be unconstitutional...The hyde amendment already prohibits any tax dollars from being spent on abortion. The problem is that tax dollars are of course still spent on abortion even if its in a round about way. Nobody is saying that women cant have abortions although there are ways to prevent pregnancy actually to a degree of 99.99% so the arguement for that has traction. The politicians should basically follow through with the hyde amendment and see that NO tax dollars are spent on abortions...but with most things in govt if something isnt working b/c its not being implemented they simply just make a new rule instead of implementing the current one.

the right to bear arms gives us the right to own guns but the govt doesnt give me tax dollars to go buy a gun...is that unconstitutional?

no it would not be unconstitutional...The hyde amendment already prohibits any tax dollars from being spent on abortion. The problem is that tax dollars are of course still spent on abortion even if its in a round about way. Nobody is saying that women cant have abortions although there are ways to prevent pregnancy actually to a degree of 99.99% so the arguement for that has traction. The politicians should basically follow through with the hyde amendment and see that NO tax dollars are spent on abortions...but with most things in govt if something isnt working b/c its not being implemented they simply just make a new rule instead of implementing the current one.

the right to bear arms gives us the right to own guns but the govt doesnt give me tax dollars to go buy a gun...is that unconstitutional?

Not really a good comparison, especially since Roe V Wade had more to do with patient rights than abortion. Also, we're not supposed to have a state sponsored religion. :)

Back to my question, if you will. Would it be OK for a healthcare bill to prevent taxpayers from paying for weight or smoking related illnesses? Those things cost taxpayers far more than abortions.

tonymctones

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Re: They say it's not, but it is!
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2010, 06:46:33 PM »
Not really a good comparison, especially since Roe V Wade had more to do with patient rights than abortion. Also, we're not supposed to have a state sponsored religion. :)

Back to my question, if you will. Would it be OK for a healthcare bill to prevent taxpayers from paying for weight or smoking related illnesses? Those things cost taxpayers far more than abortions.
LOL the idea that anti abortionist views are religion based is ignorant...there are plenty and I mean plenty of legitimate non religious reasons to be against abortion.  ;)

I see your point but the problem is that ppl dont normally die from giving birth in this day and abortions are what 99% elective? sorry but if thats the case why not pay for tit jobs for all women? at least I may get to benefit from that  ;D

the other issues you brought up are not in a sense elective treatment in general if you have those conditions and go without treatment you will die.

newmom

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Re: They say it's not, but it is!
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2010, 06:48:22 PM »
I'm with Tony, health care to pay for new boobies

tonymctones

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Re: They say it's not, but it is!
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2010, 06:50:43 PM »
I'm with Tony, health care to pay for new boobies
I should run for office...

boobs for everyone and unisex locker rooms  ;D ;)

drkaje

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Re: They say it's not, but it is!
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2010, 06:54:24 PM »
LOL the idea that anti abortionist views are religion based is ignorant...there are plenty and I mean plenty of legitimate non religious reasons to be against abortion.  ;)

I see your point but the problem is that ppl dont normally die from abortions they are what 99% elective? sorry but if thats the case why not pay for tit jobs for all women? at least I may get to benefit from that  ;D

the other issues you brought up are not in a sense elective treatment in general if you have those conditions and go without treatment you will die.

You're really not going to play the "all life is sacred "card when most of those right-wingers would love to see all Arabs late term aborted, are ya?!

Personally, I'm not huge on using abortion for birth control but feel there are worse things. That being said, if we get to pick and choose what things are OK on taxpayer dime where will the slippery slope will lead to? Obesity is a personal choice, should they be denied healthcare?

Tito24

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Re: They say it's not, but it is!
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2010, 06:55:01 PM »
Abortions can save tax payers lots of monies..


Talk about a return on investment for the tax payer. ;D  It's not really a return on investment but whatever..