Roberts: Scene at State of Union 'Very Troubling'

[drkaje]

And then the media will have full sway. 

What is wrong with the NRA donating money to candidates? 

What's wrong with Israel getting $20 in aid for every $1 donated to politicians?

[Soul Crusher]

What's wrong with Israel getting $20 in aid for every $1 donated to politicians?

Tip of the iceberg. 

I would cut all foreign aid but thats a different discussion. 

Again - I belong to the NRA and pay like $30 a year, knowing they donate money to candidates.  What is the problem since the voice of the NRA, and the millions of its members, have a stronger voice for gun owners combined, than my $30.00 can to one candidate here or there?

[OzmO]

The first amendment allows freedom of speech,something Obama is only comfortable with when it comes to dems.There are already laws on the books banning foreign interests from giving money for elections in this country.Obama=liar!

Ok, but what do you think about that law being reversed?  Do you think its good that companys can spend unlimited amounts of money towards a candidate campaign?

[Soul Crusher]

Ok, but what do you think about that law being reversed?  Do you think its good that companys can spend unlimited amounts of money towards a candidate campaign?

Why not if there is full disclosure?

I can see also if they want to allow unlimited personal contributions with full disclosure. 

Why should the media and govt get all the power over the election process?   

[drkaje]

Why not if there is full disclosure?

I can see also if they want to allow unlimited personal contributions with full disclosure. 

Why should the media and govt get all the power over the election process?   

You're a third of the way there, 33.

You've gone from Obama is the problem to his supporters. In time you'll figure out the process itself is flawed.

[OzmO]

Why not if there is full disclosure?

I can see also if they want to allow unlimited personal contributions with full disclosure. 

Why should the media and govt get all the power over the election process?   

Do you think full disclosure will stop anyone (group) from buying an election?  Are you comfortable with an election being decided or at least heavily influenced by which candidate gets the most money from corporations?

[drkaje]

Do you think full disclosure will stop anyone (group) from buying an election?  Are you comfortable with an election being decided or at least heavily influenced by which candidate gets the most money from corporations?

I believe the is problem that people like 33 want to believe huge numbers of people would share their opinion if adequately informed. Coming at it from this perspective makes it hard to see they wouldn't be able to afford as much free speech as corporations and foreign interests.

This ruling essentially makes free speech unaffordable to a majority of Americans.

[BM OUT]

Ok, but what do you think about that law being reversed?  Do you think its good that companys can spend unlimited amounts of money towards a candidate campaign?

Elections are already being bought by unions and groups like ACORN.Finally these groups will be muted by coportations which have much more money.I cant wait to see the next election cycle and all those groups Obama attacks getting their revenge with an onslaught of ads against him.

[drkaje]

Elections are already being bought by unions and groups like ACORN.Finally these groups will be muted by coportations which have much more money.I cant wait to see the next election cycle and all those groups Obama attacks getting their revenge with an onslaught of ads against him.

I'm guessing the Bush/Obama bailout will create a lot of corporate goodwill, LOL!

[OzmO]

Elections are already being bought by unions and groups like ACORN.Finally these groups will be muted by coportations which have much more money.I cant wait to see the next election cycle and all those groups Obama attacks getting their revenge with an onslaught of ads against him.

Are you comfortable with that when it works both ways?  Sure, Obama may get stung by it, but so can a good Conservative candidate in the future.  In other words, It's seems the election process is getting worse by this decision, not better.

[OzmO]

I believe the is problem that people like 33 want to believe huge numbers of people would share their opinion if adequately informed. Coming at it from this perspective makes it hard to see they wouldn't be able to afford as much free speech as corporations and foreign interests.

This ruling essentially makes free speech unaffordable to a majority of Americans.

This is what I'm worried about and that it creates an uneven playing field skewed to giving the advantage to the candidate with the most money from other interests.

[BM OUT]

Are you comfortable with that when it works both ways?  Sure, Obama may get stung by it, but so can a good Conservative candidate in the future.  In other words, It's seems the election process is getting worse by this decision, not better.

Yes,if EVERYONE has access to it its fine.I dont have a problem with money pouring in from everywhere,as long as everyone has a chance to pour it in.The more freedom the better.

[OzmO]

Yes,if EVERYONE has access to it its fine.I dont have a problem with money pouring in from everywhere,as long as everyone has a chance to pour it in.The more freedom the better.

You don't think that gives corporations with more money greater control over the outcome of an election?  For example:  These "green" companies.  What if these corporations who stand to profit greatly from "green" legislature out spend everyone else and elect a authoritarian liberal who goes all nazi on us?

[Soul Crusher]

You don't think that gives corporations with more money greater control over the outcome of an election?  For example:  These "green" companies.  What if these corporations who stand to profit greatly from "green" legislature out spend everyone else and elect a authoritarian liberal who goes all nazi on us?

They already do and did!  GE OWNS NBC! 

[OzmO]

They already do and did!  GE OWNS NBC! 

So how can anybody be OK with this decision?

[Soul Crusher]

So how can anybody be OK with this decision?

Because now there can be competing voices with NBC from giving their "green" propaganda by companies or individuals who will be harmed by it. 

[OzmO]

Because now there can be competing voices with NBC from giving their "green" propaganda by companies or individuals who will be harmed by it. 

That's nice in principle, but then elections are still heavily influence and decided by those corporations who have the ability to throw more money out there, NOT on the basis of the candidates true platform.   Companies simply make most of their decisions based on whether or not they will grow and profit from it.  A company harmed by green legislature will adapt to profit from it or go out of business.  Political ideology seems irrelevant in this.

This why i don't understand why you or anyone else doesn't have more of a problem with this and instead we are focused on Obama's comments about the SC.  It's dumb IMO.  The real issue is, the decision gives companies even more power to influence elections, and this can't be a good thing in the long term.  It seems to strengthen the illusion of freedom rather preserving freedom its self.

I may be so off based on this, I'm no expert for sure.  But this is just what I see.  It may sound good now, but it cant' be good.  This green crap isn't going away.

[Soul Crusher]

That's nice in principle, but then elections are still heavily influence and decided by those corporations who have the ability to throw more money out there, NOT on the basis of the candidates true platform.   Companies simply make most of their decisions based on whether or not they will grow and profit from it.  A company harmed by green legislature will adapt to profit from it or go out of business.  Political ideology seems irrelevant in this.

This why i don't understand why you or anyone else doesn't have more of a problem with this and instead we are focused on Obama's comments about the SC.  It's dumb IMO.  The real issue is, the decision gives companies even more power to influence elections, and this can't be a good thing in the long term.  It seems to strengthen the illusion of freedom rather preserving freedom its self.

I may be so off based on this, I'm no expert for sure.  But this is just what I see.  It may sound good now, but it cant' be good.  This green crap isn't going away.

Because the 1st Amedment protects political speech first and foremost.  Corporations have rights and are treated as individuals in many capacities, including this. 

While I dont like the thought of GE shoving green nonsense down my throat 24/7, to me the bigger danger is a govt with more regulatory power over speech. 

 

[OzmO]

Because the 1st Amedment protects political speech first and foremost.  Corporations have rights and are treated as individuals in many capacities, including this. 

While I dont like the thought of GE shoving green nonsense down my throat 24/7, to me the bigger danger is a govt with more regulatory power over speech. 

 

But in a way, hasn't government has created regulatory situation allowing BIG business to out spend everyone?   Take for radio for example.  Don't you need tens thousands if not millions to get a licensee to broadcast?   In my mind that's a form of regulation.  Same thing here.  We are letting these corporations have huge amounts of influence.  It's not about the free speech of an individual.  It's allowing corporations to make individual free speech moot and ineffective.   

[Soul Crusher]

But in a way, hasn't government has created regulatory situation allowing BIG business to out spend everyone?   Take for radio for example.  Don't you need tens thousands if not millions to get a licensee to broadcast?   In my mind that's a form of regulation.  Same thing here.  We are letting these corporations have huge amounts of influence.  It's not about the free speech of an individual.  It's allowing corporations to make individual free speech moot and ineffective.   

I dont agree - with the internet, etc, people have more of a voice than ever. 

Just look at guys like Schiff and Celente.  Literally with a youtube video or facebook posting they reach a huge amount of people. 

I am not comfortable giving the govt power regulating politicial speech in any way whatsoever. 

[Dos Equis]

This why i don't understand why you or anyone else doesn't have more of a problem with this and instead we are focused on Obama's comments about the SC.  It's dumb IMO.  The real issue is, the decision gives companies even more power to influence elections, and this can't be a good thing in the long term.  It seems to strengthen the illusion of freedom rather preserving freedom its self.

We can focus on both (Obama's comments and the actual decision).  Obama's comments were inappropriate.  Showed a lack of class/tact on his part. 

Regarding the decision, I don't really have a problem with companies donating to political campaigns.   

[OzmO]

We can focus on both (Obama's comments and the actual decision).  Obama's comments were inappropriate.  Showed a lack of class/tact on his part. 

Regarding the decision, I don't really have a problem with companies donating to political campaigns.   

I don't have problem with them donating either, but, unlimited?  I don't think that's good.

[drkaje]

Presidential comments are irrelevant in the bigger picture when compared to the capacity this decision has to change American. Unfortunately, people are so desperate for political power and control they're willing to believe outspending corporations is possible.

I guess "Every country has the government it deserves" holds true.

[Soul Crusher]

Presidential comments are irrelevant in the bigger picture when compared to the capacity this decision has to change American. Unfortunately, people are so desperate for political power and control they're willing to believe outspending corporations is possible.

I guess "Every country has the government it deserves" holds true.

Did you consider my NRA example above?   

[drkaje]

Did you consider my NRA example above?   

Can you appreciate the difference between an individual citizen donating (their own money) and corporations advancing causes/candidates to advance their own greed? Making that corporation an individual essentially renders you voiceless.

Despite whatever people wish to hope or think, this ruling essentially says Americans only have whatever rights they can afford. Small government republicans (if there are any left) should be mortified at handing elections over to big business.