Att Van Bilderass

[WillGrant]

I see you mention stacking coffee and nicotine gum as an effective fat burning stack throughout the day?.

Could you explain this please , as Ill give it a try..just want to know the rational behind it. 


I posted this out on the main board not via PM as others may be intersted to.

[WillGrant]

Or anyone else that would like to contribute 

[tbombz]

dave palumbo once answered a question about this in like 07 when he was doing columns for MD.. I forget the scientific terms describing the mechanistic reasoning behind why nicotine was effective for fat loss... but simply, its a thermogenic and appetite supressant... both of which support fat loss; caffiene also is thermogenic and helps preserve muscle.

[haider]

As long as protein is 1 g per lb bodyweight, the only thing that matters for fat loss is total calorie consumption.


/wavelength.

[WillGrant]

dave palumbo once answered a question about this in like 07 when he was doing columns for MD.. I forget the scientific terms describing the mechanistic reasoning behind why nicotine was effective for fat loss... but simply, its a thermogenic and appetite supressant... both of which support fat loss; caffiene also is thermogenic and helps preserve muscle.

Ah thanks mate.

You wouldnt remember the doses ratio of nicotine would you?

They have diff doses at the chemist I looked at today and im not a smoker trying to give up so I guess dont use the highest one  

[WillGrant]

As long as protein is 1 g per lb bodyweight, the only thing that matters for fat loss is total calorie consumption.


/wavelength.

Yes , well id say 2g but Anything extra that can help is a plus..im at that last stage , ridding the body of that last bit of stubborn fat over the lower abs

[haider]

Yes , well id say 2g but Anything extra that can help is a plus..im at that last stage , ridding the body of that last bit of stubborn fat over the lower abs

I was just messing.

Getting ready for comp?

[WillGrant]

I was just messing.

Getting ready for comp?

Comp is end of year , Ive dieted down over the last 3-4 months just to get lean..will stay within 5kg of contest weight so I dont kill myself getting ready..

I feel so much better , no getting out of breath going up stairs or shins and calfs pumping up so much its painfull when you walk any more than 5 mins on the treadmill lol..

[haider]

Comp is end of year , Ive dieted down over the last 3-4 months just to get lean..will stay within 5kg of contest weight so I dont kill myself getting ready..

I feel so much better , no getting out of breath going up stairs or shins and calfs pumping up so much its painfull when you walk any more than 5 mins on the treadmill lol..

damn, being heavy sounds terrible  Sounds like a good plan man, good luck and stay healthy.

[kiwiol]

I see you mention stacking coffee and nicotine gum as an effective fat burning stack throughout the day?.

Could you explain this please , as Ill give it a try..just want to know the rational behind it. 


I posted this out on the main board not via PM as others may be intersted to.

Why are you asking Van Ask HugeRipped

[kiwiol]

Comp is end of year , Ive dieted down over the last 3-4 months just to get lean..will stay within 5kg of contest weight so I dont kill myself getting ready..

I feel so much better , no getting out of breath going up stairs or shins and calfs pumping up so much its painfull when you walk any more than 5 mins on the treadmill lol..

Damn, I didn't know you were competing! What contest and class?

[io856]

2mg gum yields 1mg nicotine thats the one you want... don't take more than three a day

van recommends for 3 weeks out for mood enhancement and appetite suppression

[SF1900]

Why are you asking Van Ask HugeRipped

HugeRipped is a bbing guru!!!!!!!!!!!!

[WillGrant]

Damn, I didn't know you were competing! What contest and class?

Just local one at end of year mate..Ive done one before but want to sneak into the novice division again if I can  just to recut my teeth.Will be aiming at over 90kg class but not to concerned with weight , condition will be goal 

[WillGrant]

2mg gum yields 1mg nicotine thats the one you want... don't take more than three a day

van recommends for 3 weeks out for mood enhancement and appetite suppression

Thanks mate.
Any pics of your show? PM if you prefer.

[Van_Bilderass]

Here you go  

Am J Clin Nutr. 2003 Jun;77(6):1442-7.
Effect of chewing gum containing nicotine and caffeine on energy expenditure and substrate utilization in men.

Jessen AB, Toubro S, Astrup A.

Department of Human Nutrition, Centre for Advanced Food Studies, The Royal Veterinary and Agricultural University, Frederiksberg, Denmark.

BACKGROUND: Nicotine replacement therapy limits weight gain after smoking cessation. This finding is partly attributable to the thermogenic effect of nicotine, which may be enhanced by caffeine. OBJECTIVE: We assessed the acute thermogenic effects of chewing gum containing different doses of nicotine and caffeine. DESIGN: This randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, crossover study included 12 healthy, normal-weight men (aged 18-45 y). Energy expenditure was measured with indirect calorimetry before and 2.5 h after subjects chewed each of 7 different types of gum containing the following doses of nicotine/caffeine: 0/0, 1/0, 2/0, 1/50, 2/50, 1/100, and 2/100 mg/mg. RESULTS: The thermogenic responses (increases over the response to placebo) were 3.7%, 4.9%, 7.9%, 6.3%, 8.5%, and 9.8%, respectively, for the gums containing 1/0, 2/0, 1/50, 2/50, 1/100, and 2/100 mg nicotine/mg caffeine (P < 0.05 for all). Adding caffeine to 1 and 2 mg nicotine significantly enhanced the thermogenic response, but changing the caffeine dose (from 50 to 100 mg) did not change the thermogenic effect. None of the combinations changed the respiratory quotient compared with placebo, which indicates that glucose and fat oxidation rates were increased to a similar extent. Side effects occurred only with 2 mg nicotine. CONCLUSIONS: One milligram of nicotine has a pronounced thermogenic effect, which can be increased by approximately 100% by adding 100 mg caffeine. Increasing the nicotine dose to 2 mg does not increase the thermogenic effect but produces side effects in most subjects. Caffeine may be useful in preventing weight gain after smoking cessation if its thermogenic effect can be used to enhance nicotine's effect on long-term energy balance.

It's not magic but mentioned it in Kyomu's thread since it sounds like Kyomu isn't taking any "fat burners". Not like he's going to take the advice anyway since he's so stubborn. It's really not addictive  short term and in gum form IMO. For mood enhancement, killing cravings it could be almost magic shortly before a show if no other stimulants are used. 

[WillGrant]

Here you go 

It's not magic but mentioned it in Kyomu's thread since it sounds like Kyomu isn't taking any "fat burners". Not like he's going to take the advice anyway since he's so stubborn. It's really not addictive  short term and in gum form IMO. For mood enhancement, killing cravings it could be almost magic shortly before a show if no other stimulants are used.

Cool , thanks bro 

[Van_Bilderass]

2mg gum yields 1mg nicotine thats the one you want... don't take more than three a day

van recommends for 3 weeks out for mood enhancement and appetite suppression

I thought the 2mg yields 2mg?

Anyway, the gum is really expensive in Sweden at least. Cheapest per mg to buy the 4mg gum and split into 3 parts for example.

Here's an old article for more in-depth tech info for anyone interested

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/par16.htm

This dude recommends higher dosages but I think it would make most very very sick if not used to nicotine. And the thermogenic properties are realized at much lower dosages.

Conclusions

Given Nicotine's pharmacology, it appears to be most useful during periods of intense dieting. By enhancing the actions of dopamine, serotonin and leptin, as well as partially inhibiting the actions of neuropeptide Y, nicotine can partially deceive the body into thinking it is fed-thereby decreasing appetite, mobilizing fat, and preserving lean body mass-even in the presence of a calorie deficit.

So, how would one ideally use nicotine while dieting? From our review of the literature, we know that higher doses are more effective than lower doses at regulating various factors such as neuropeptide Y (47). However, given that these values are based on mg/kg in rats, establishing conversion rates for optimal human usage is a little tricky. Nonetheless, if we return to our original observation that smokers generally weigh less than non-smokers, and suppose that a "smoker" uses approximately 20mg of nicotine a day (about 20 cigarettes, one pack), we can conclude that 20mg might be an appropriate dosage.

It should also be noted that there are a number of other compounds that might compliment a nicotine regimen. Already mentioned has been deprenyl (5-10mg a day), the use of which is aimed at potentiatiating dopaminergic activity. Similarly, caffeine can sensitize the dopaminergic response to nicotine (61). Because nicotine upregulates tyrosine hydroxylase while concurrently inducing catecholamine release, supplementing with L-tyrosine would ensure ample substrates for neurotransmitter formation. Finally, Spook suggested the addition of calcium supplements, as nicotine induces the release of calcitonin gene-related peptide (CGRP), which can deplete intracellular calcium stores (62).

[Mr Nobody]

Nicotine is mainly a appetite suppressant, I would not do it if you can control your appetite it is addicting the main ingredient in smoking cigarettes. My thoughts, anyway good luck mate on the contest.

[wavelength]

Yes , well id say 2g but Anything extra that can help is a plus..im at that last stage , ridding the body of that last bit of stubborn fat over the lower abs

It's not the body that holds on to the fat, it's the hand that holds on to the fork.

[Van_Bilderass]

It's not the body that holds on to the fat, it's the hand that holds on to the fork.

Well, even legit diet gurus like McDonald have some tricks to get off the last bit of "stubborn fat". And drugs are usually included. Like the stubborn fat loss protocol of his. I'm pretty sure yohimbine is a rec for the protocol. EC is a given. More rare drugs he has recommended, and wrote a book on, is bromocriptine.

[WillGrant]

It's not the body that holds on to the fat, it's the hand that holds on to the fork.

See Van's post below yours 

Im trying to move that last lil bit of fat over lower abs 

[Mr Anabolic]

Here you go  

It's not magic but mentioned it in Kyomu's thread since it sounds like Kyomu isn't taking any "fat burners". Not like he's going to take the advice anyway since he's so stubborn. It's really not addictive  short term and in gum form IMO. For mood enhancement, killing cravings it could be almost magic shortly before a show if no other stimulants are used. 

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but wanted to add my experience here...

I recently started using Nicorette gum (1mg - I cut a 2mg piece in half), plus 100mg caffeine, plus 12.5 ephedrine HCL and it's been working very well.  I've been taking it take it twice a day for 3 weeks and I've lost 10lbs of fat with no additional cardio or calorie restrictions.  IMO, the nicotine doubles the effectiveness of the traditional E+C stack.  I'm going to take it out another couple weeks.

I literally have to force myself to eat because this combo produces the biggest appetite suppressant effect I've ever experienced. 

Be careful with nicotine gum though.  I tried chewing the 2mg piece and it made me extremely dizzy, very light headed and nauseous.

[Army of One]

As an ex smoker I can tell you Nicotine is right level with ECA for suppressing appetite, it's no coincidence pretty much every catwalk model smokes.