Author Topic: States’ Rights Is Rallying Cry for Lawmakers  (Read 2217 times)

SAMSON123

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States’ Rights Is Rallying Cry for Lawmakers
« on: March 17, 2010, 10:41:49 AM »
A Russian professor said about two years ago that america would be broken up into five or six regions and each region would come under control of other nations. With states attempting to wrestle themselves away from government control you may see this five or six region vision come into being. A number of states have already started making moves toward sovereignty as they feel the government of americanis getting to big, too controlling, not operating in the best interest of the people, taxing and regulating too much etc etc. This recent gun issue seems to be a spring board for more states to desire the sovereignty route. All that is needed is for states to join together in this quest and you have the makings of the developement of countries within america as states with similar agendas and concerns join with states of the same.

States’ Rights Is Rallying Cry for Lawmakers
By KIRK JOHNSON
Published: March 16, 2010

   
Whether it’s correctly called a movement, a backlash or political theater, state declarations of their rights — or in some cases denunciations of federal authority, amounting to the same thing — are on a roll.
Al Hartmann/Salt Lake Tribune



In Utah, a bill by Representative Carl Wimmer, a Republican, would require the state to sign off on any federal health reform.
   

Gov. Mike Rounds of South Dakota, a Republican, signed a bill into law on Friday declaring that the federal regulation of firearms is invalid if a weapon is made and used in South Dakota.

On Thursday, Wyoming’s governor, Dave Freudenthal, a Democrat, signed a similar bill for that state. The same day, Oklahoma’s House of Representatives approved a resolution that Oklahomans should be able to vote on a state constitutional amendment allowing them to opt out of the federal health care overhaul.

In Utah, lawmakers embraced states’ rights with a vengeance in the final days of the legislative session last week. One measure said Congress and the federal government could not carry out health care reform, not in Utah anyway, without approval of the Legislature. Another bill declared state authority to take federal lands under the eminent domain process. A resolution asserted the “inviolable sovereignty of the State of Utah under the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution.”

Some legal scholars say the new states’ rights drive has more smoke than fire, but for lawmakers, just taking a stand can be important enough.

“Who is the sovereign, the state or the federal government?” said State Representative Chris N. Herrod, a Republican from Provo, Utah, and leader of the 30-member Patrick Henry Caucus, which formed last year and led the assault on federal legal barricades in the session that ended Thursday.

Alabama, Tennessee and Washington are considering bills or constitutional amendments that would assert local police powers to be supreme over the federal authority, according to the Tenth Amendment Center, a research and advocacy group based in Los Angeles. And Utah, again not to be outdone, passed a bill last week that says federal law enforcement authority, even on federal lands, can be limited by the state.

“There’s a tsunami of interest in states’ rights and resistance to an overbearing federal government; that’s what all these measures indicate,” said Gary Marbut, the president of the Montana Shooting Sports Association, which led the drive last year for one of the first “firearms freedoms,” laws like the ones signed last week in South Dakota and Wyoming.

In most cases, conservative anxiety over federal authority is fueling the impulse, with the Tea Party movement or its members in the backdrop or forefront. Mr. Herrod in Utah said that he had spoken at Tea Party rallies, for example, but that his efforts, and those of the Patrick Henry Caucus, were not directly connected to the Tea Partiers.

And in some cases, according to the Tenth Amendment Center, the politics of states’ rights are veering left. Rhode Island, Vermont and Wisconsin, for example — none of them known as conservative bastions — are considering bills that would authorize, or require, governors to recall or take control of National Guard troops, asserting that federal calls to active duty have exceeded federal authority.

“Everything we’ve tried to keep the federal government confined to rational limits has been a failure, an utter, unrelenting failure — so why not try something else?” said Thomas E. Woods Jr., a senior fellow at the Ludwig von Mises Institute, a nonprofit group in Auburn, Ala., that researches what it calls “the scholarship of liberty.”

Mr. Woods, who has a Ph.D. in history, and has written widely on states’ rights and nullification — the argument that says states can sometimes trump or disregard federal law — said he was not sure where the dots between states’ rights and politics connected. But he and others say that whatever it is, something politically powerful is brewing under the statehouse domes.

Other scholars say the state efforts, if pursued in the courts, would face formidable roadblocks. Article 6 of the Constitution says federal authority outranks state authority, and on that bedrock of federalist principle rests centuries of back and forth that states have mostly lost, notably the desegregation of schools in the 1950s and ’60s.

“Article 6 says that that federal law is supreme and that if there’s a conflict, federal law prevails,” said Prof. Ruthann Robson, who teaches constitutional law at the City University of New York School of Law. “It’s pretty difficult to imagine a way in which a state could prevail on many of these.”

And while some efforts do seem headed for a direct conflict with federal laws or the Constitution, others are premised on the idea that federal courts have misinterpreted the Constitution in the federal government’s favor.

A lawsuit filed last year by the Montana Shooting Sports Association after the state’s “firearms freedom” law took effect, for example, does not say that the federal government has no authority to regulate guns, but that courts have misconstrued interstate commerce regulations.

National monuments and medical marijuana, of all things, play a role as well.

Mr. Herrod in Utah said that after an internal memorandum from the United States Department of the Interior was made public last month, discussing sites around the country potentially suitable for federal protection as national monuments — including two sites in Utah — support for all kinds of statements against federal authority gained steam.

And at the Tenth Amendment Center, the group’s founder, Michael Boldin, said he thought states that had bucked federal authority over the last decade by legalizing medical marijuana, even as federal law held all marijuana use and possession to be illegal, had set the template in some ways for the effort now. And those states, Mr. Boldin said, were essentially validated in their efforts last fall when the Justice Department said it would no longer make medical marijuana a priority in the states were it was legal. Nullification, he said, was shown to work.

Whether the political impulse of states’ rights and nullification will become a direct political fault line in the national elections this fall is uncertain, said Mr. Woods of the von Mises institute.

But in Utah, at least, a key indicator is coming much sooner. The party caucuses to determine, among other things, whether candidates will face primary elections, are to be held next Tuesday, and Mr. Herrod said the states rights’ crowd would attend and push for change.

“Those politicians who don’t understand that things are different are in big trouble because a few people showing up to caucus can have a big influence,” Mr. Herrod said.

A spokeswoman for Gov. Gary R. Herbert, a Republican — who signed a firearms law like South Dakota’s last month declaring exemption from federal regulation for guns made and used within the state — said Mr. Herbert was still studying the new batch of bills passed this week and had not yet made decisions about signing them.
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chaos

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Re: States’ Rights Is Rallying Cry for Lawmakers
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2010, 08:12:22 PM »
Didn't read your crap, but last time States fought for States rights it was called a Civil War.
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

Kazan

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Re: States’ Rights Is Rallying Cry for Lawmakers
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2010, 08:42:30 PM »
10th Amendment, just because the federal government doesn't want to follow the constitution doesn't mean the states can't
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Re: States’ Rights Is Rallying Cry for Lawmakers
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2010, 05:03:35 AM »
Didn't read your crap, but last time States fought for States rights it was called a Civil War.

Look, the issue now is that many states are going broke because the Federal Govt passes alongs unfunded mandates that the states cant afford to pay anymore.  Medicade is a perfect example of this. 

The Fed Govt can print money to pay its bills, the States can not and it is destroying peoples lives in more than one way. 

Next year, if not this one, this issue is goiing to hit hard since there are 10 states near default and tax increases are not doable anymore. 

SAMSON123

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Re: States’ Rights Is Rallying Cry for Lawmakers
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2010, 06:59:27 AM »
Didn't read your crap, but last time States fought for States rights it was called a Civil War.

Hello our little idiotic GB friend.

The Civil War had nothing to do with state rights. Once again an american that is clueless to the history of the country in which he lives. The Civil War was started over the bankers in the North who refused to allow southern plantation owners, businesses, industries and shipping to begin conducting business with Europe which would essentially exclude the north and bankers from any of the lucrative profit that was being made in the sale of crops, manufacture of textiles, sale of raw goods etc etc. When the south began conducting this business to the chagrin of the north the wealthy bankers actually called on the military to bring it to a stop. Ragtag bands of soldiers were sent to battle against southern armies in an attempt to defeat their enterprise, but were met with much resistance from southern military, businessmen and workers. Since the north realized it was going to get NOWHERE in stopping not only this enterprise, but also in stopping the southern states from seceding, a serious trick was played on the Blacks who were slaves. Lincoln (president) made a proposition that if the Blacks would fight for the north they would have their freedom...(sounds a whole lot like the bullshit american is still playing with getting foreigners to fight in its military conquest on promises of being made an instant citizen). Nonetheless a million Blacks joined the north armies, were given weapons and went to battle against the southern white armies, defeating them, but never gaining their freedom. No Lincoln DID NOT FREE ANY SLAVES (read his speech) he "claimed" that no new persons would be brought to america TO BE SLAVES and NO Blacks were NOT freed...and as you can see today NO STATE OBTAINED ITS RIGHTS as the fight for rights is still going on.

WOW I really don't know what the hell they have taught you in your white schools, but it is amazing how what you know as history IS NOT WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED...
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Kazan

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Re: States’ Rights Is Rallying Cry for Lawmakers
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2010, 11:51:00 AM »
Where do you come up with this shit? No really, do you just make it up as you go?
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Soul Crusher

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Re: States’ Rights Is Rallying Cry for Lawmakers
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2010, 11:57:59 AM »
Where do you come up with this shit? No really, do you just make it up as you go?

Actually, its not all that off Kazan.  I have read a few books recently about other economic trends that caused the CW in addition to the slavery issue that are fascinating. 

Kazan

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Re: States’ Rights Is Rallying Cry for Lawmakers
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2010, 12:08:09 PM »
Actually, its not all that off Kazan.  I have read a few books recently about other economic trends that caused the CW in addition to the slavery issue that are fascinating. 

While he may have some of the premise correct, as usual he goes off on some insane tangent.
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Re: States’ Rights Is Rallying Cry for Lawmakers
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2010, 12:10:50 PM »
While he may have some of the premise correct, as usual he goes off on some insane tangent.

Slavery was but one issue going on.  There were also issues regarding the industrial revolution, the tensions between England and France, and other nosense going that got tensions revolving. 

Lincoln himself said he would keep slavery as an institution if it meant ending the civil war or ending the conflict. 

The "Emancipation Proclamation" was not all that is it cracked up to be since Lincolns' first impulse was to keep slavery going.   

Kazan

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Re: States’ Rights Is Rallying Cry for Lawmakers
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2010, 12:19:51 PM »
Slavery was but one issue going on.  There were also issues regarding the industrial revolution, the tensions between England and France, and other nosense going that got tensions revolving. 

Lincoln himself said he would keep slavery as an institution if it meant ending the civil war or ending the conflict. 

The "Emancipation Proclamation" was not all that is it cracked up to be since Lincolns' first impulse was to keep slavery going.   

The North was going industrial and the South was staying agricultural the problem 1 crop - cotton. The North advanced while the South didn't. The invention of the cotton gin and the Souths reliance on cotton - slavery being a big part of that.

The Missouri compramise later followed by the Kansas/Nebraska act - fighting over where slavery would be permitted.

States rights and the 10th Amendment come into play once the Slave states start loosing control of the federal government

And finally the abolishonist movement and the election of Lincoln.

So yes economics played a big part in the civil war, but so did slavery, since the South depended on slave labor for their lively hood.
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Re: States’ Rights Is Rallying Cry for Lawmakers
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2010, 12:23:13 PM »
The North was going industrial and the South was staying agricultural the problem 1 crop - cotton. The North advanced while the South didn't. The invention of the cotton gin and the Souths reliance on cotton - slavery being a big part of that.

The Missouri compramise later followed by the Kansas/Nebraska act - fighting over where slavery would be permitted.

States rights and the 10th Amendment come into play once the Slave states start loosing control of the federal government

And finally the abolishonist movement and the election of Lincoln.

So yes economics played a big part in the civil war, but so did slavery, since the South depended on slave labor for their lively hood.

Absolutely.  But what i see going on is very similar in a way.  The Fed gov is making it impossible for states to remain solvent with all the unfunded mandates and something is going to have to give.   

Kazan

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Re: States’ Rights Is Rallying Cry for Lawmakers
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2010, 12:36:20 PM »
Absolutely.  But what i see going on is very similar in a way.  The Fed gov is making it impossible for states to remain solvent with all the unfunded mandates and something is going to have to give.   

Yep, and that is why we are seeing states grow some balls and using their constitutional rights to tell the FG to go pound sand
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chaos

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Re: States’ Rights Is Rallying Cry for Lawmakers
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2010, 09:18:34 PM »
Hello our little idiotic GB friend.

The Civil War had nothing to do with state rights.

Dumbfuck.
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

SAMSON123

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Re: States’ Rights Is Rallying Cry for Lawmakers
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2010, 09:46:41 PM »
While he may have some of the premise correct, as usual he goes off on some insane tangent.

IDIOT as usual Kazan, Chaos, BF and the rest of the losers....

Again typical DUMB AMERICANS  ignorant to all history. I did not spell out everything about the Civil War, because it is too lengthy. But it was NOT AT ALL ABOUT FREEING SLAVES OR STATE RIGHTS. Once again the issue was bankers in the north who funded the agricultural business of the south. Southern plantation owners grew sick of watching and selling their crops to the north at dirt cheap prices only to see it shipped off to Europe at top dollar prices. The whole textile industry which was located primarily in the north in places like Massachusetts, Connecticut, etc were dependent on the south for its cotton which was weaved in the textile mills of the northeast and shipped to Europe. the south came to the decision that it could set up its own textile mills and weave cloth and garments and sell these things themselves to Europe...as well as sell the produce and make the profit and keep it for themselves. The north (bankers) panicked at the thought of the south doing this and declared that it be ended. When the south refused the wealthy bankers who controlled things then as they do now, literally called upon the military to attack and break up the southern enterprise which also included seceding from the nation.

Go read your God damned history books and get off this message board. You should only come to the board if you have something to offer and unfortunately MOST OF YOU DON'T HAVE SHIT, DON'T KNOW SHIT AND SADLY DON'T WANT TO KNOW SHIT...but your dumb asses will have the nerve to name call or dismiss facts simply because you don't want to believe it....

So far as the premise being right...the whole fucking argument I presented is correct....and I learned about his stuff in high school. why the hell do you NOT know about this????
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SAMSON123

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Re: States’ Rights Is Rallying Cry for Lawmakers
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2010, 10:21:13 PM »
The North was going industrial and the South was staying agricultural the problem 1 crop - cotton. The North advanced while the South didn't. The invention of the cotton gin and the Souths reliance on cotton - slavery being a big part of that.

The Missouri compramise later followed by the Kansas/Nebraska act - fighting over where slavery would be permitted.

States rights and the 10th Amendment come into play once the Slave states start loosing control of the federal government

And finally the abolishonist movement and the election of Lincoln.

So yes economics played a big part in the civil war, but so did slavery, since the South depended on slave labor for their lively hood.

Kazan you are making a further ass of yourself. The issue has nothing to do with going industrial or advancing. The northeast of america was always industrial with its textile mills, foundries, machine shops, wood mills etc etc. The south had a lot of these businesses as well, but because of the warm weather, fertile soil...agriculture was and became the ideal business. Farmers did NOT only raise COTTON...all produce from beans to peas, to tobacco, to fruit of all sorts etc were raised and was important as it was not only important in the feeding and clothing of america, but also the feeding and clothing of Europe. Once again the southern states, who were getting FREE labor from the enslaved African Americans, grew angry that the crops they sold to the north were going at dirt cheap prices and then were going at market rates to Europe. The attitude developed that we (southern plantation and business owners) could weave the textiles themselves, make the clothing, sell the produce and keep all of the profit themselves, thereby excluding the north (banks). That was anarchy in the norths eyes and the declaration of war on the south became the rallying call.

Now so far as this Missouri Compromise crap. Blacks who had escaped slavery in the South and those who were freed moved west and north and northwest into areas whites had not settled yet. After the African Americans had cleared land, set up agricultural fields, started their own businesses etc in the states just west of the southern states along came white government with the HOMESTEAD ACT. This act essentially paid whites to go to these now Black areas and steal the land at gunpoint and the land had been cleared and made good by the same. The settling of all states like Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Arkansas etc  were made possible by the Blacks who had tamed the land and made it workable. Whites came in took control at gunpoint, Blacks continued to move further west and teh government paid the whites to stay there. Well here was the problem. Whites knew nothing about agriculture, running a business, or survival in that type of wild environment. Many white men abandoned the land and home leaving their wives and children out there alone. Many of the white women went insane from the loneliness (this was a time when insane asylums exploded in america) and returned to the east coast because that is where all the businesses and money to be made was.

Now it would behoove you to READ READ READ as surely you are lacking very much in the form of knowledge of what happened in america in so far as slavery, who settled the west, why there was a civil war, why slavery ended, how the north became a center of commerce etc etc etc. As it stand now you have been LIED TO UNBELIEVABLY....
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tonymctones

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Re: States’ Rights Is Rallying Cry for Lawmakers
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2010, 10:49:26 PM »
LOL at the russian professor prediction  ::) The US isnt breaking up anytime soon and if they did right now no region would willingly submit to another country and if one was attacked the rest would join together in defense understanding that their future would be affected. again  ::)

in response to the article I think this could lead to a case going before the supreme court. Different states will rule differently on this and this will eventually force the supreme court to rule on it. So while this maybe ineffective in the long run it will keep this issue in the public eye for a long time.

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Re: States’ Rights Is Rallying Cry for Lawmakers
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2010, 05:03:54 AM »
LOL at the russian professor prediction  ::) The US isnt breaking up anytime soon and if they did right now no region would willingly submit to another country and if one was attacked the rest would join together in defense understanding that their future would be affected. again  ::)

in response to the article I think this could lead to a case going before the supreme court. Different states will rule differently on this and this will eventually force the supreme court to rule on it. So while this maybe ineffective in the long run it will keep this issue in the public eye for a long time.

I believe there will be huge issues around this as states go broke and cant print money.  All you have to do is look around, NY, CA, IL, MI, all broke.

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Re: States’ Rights Is Rallying Cry for Lawmakers
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2010, 05:14:10 AM »
Look, the issue now is that many states are going broke because the Federal Govt passes alongs unfunded mandates that the states cant afford to pay anymore.  Medicade is a perfect example of this.  

The Fed Govt can print money to pay its bills, the States can not and it is destroying peoples lives in more than one way.  

Next year, if not this one, this issue is goiing to hit hard since there are 10 states near default and tax increases are not doable anymore.  

I heard some report on the radio that, as of April 16, the Walgreens pharmacies in Washington (state) will no longer accept Medicare/Medicade patients.


tonymctones

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Re: States’ Rights Is Rallying Cry for Lawmakers
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2010, 07:37:50 AM »
I believe there will be huge issues around this as states go broke and cant print money.  All you have to do is look around, NY, CA, IL, MI, all broke.
I agree but I doubt that any state is going to let any other state/states be taken over by another country if for no other reason than they dont want another country on their border.

Some major major ish would have to go down for a scenario like jag's russian professor friend to happen.

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Re: States’ Rights Is Rallying Cry for Lawmakers
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2010, 07:40:46 AM »
I agree but I doubt that any state is going to let any other state/states be taken over by another country if for no other reason than they dont want another country on their border.

Some major major ish would have to go down for a scenario like jag's russian professor friend to happen.

I think we are going to just have a day come where the govt shuts down and people are told - tough we are broke, its over.  sort of like when people show up to work one day and the place is pad locked and people sit around like "I had no idea this was coming". 

Kazan

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Re: States’ Rights Is Rallying Cry for Lawmakers
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2010, 07:44:16 AM »
Oh no now were idiots again because SAMSON can take a little bit of fact and embellish it into some racial CT, fuck you and the horse your rode it on.

Its always the same fucking theme with you, the black guy is over there working minding his own business when the evil white guy comes along and takes all his shit and enslaves him.
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