How much should Doctors and Nurses make?

[drkaje]

Tort reform is in the current bill i believe.  Do you know how much it would save and what costs would be passed onto Dr's? 

Lower malpractice costs would end up passed on to doctors and taxpayers because medicare, medicaid and other schedules include its cost in the technical component of fee schedules. Lowering malpractice costs would translate into lower office visit fees in more cases than people would be willing to believe. It would also lower hospital rates by pretty much the same manner.

Tort reform (properly done) would lower the cost of practice and increase healthcare availability.

I don't know how much killing or at the very least simplifying HIPPA would save, but compliance isn't easy or cheap.

[OzmO]

Never heard that TORT reform is on the current bill.

Can anyone show it?  And is the reform impacting?

[Soul Crusher]

Never heard that TORT reform is on the current bill.

Can anyone show it?  And is the reform impacting?

Its not.  KC is making this up. 

[kcballer]

There may be many problems with the current system but earning power is pretty darn low on the list.  Fact is if school was cheaper, hospitals were run without so many administrators then what the average Dr earns currently would be more than sufficient.  Heck it still is.

84% of Americans earn less than a Dr, they too have debts, they are suffering through the biggest housing crisis ever seen.  Negative equity is a way of life for millions of Americans and yet we have people like 333 who are against helping them through government stimulus, yet here he is advocating that the top 15% earnings in America get a pay raise instead of making things cheaper all around.  

Millions of Americans carry huge debt compared to their income too.  If anything the Dr has a debt worth having IMO.  If you were to ask me would i rather have a 300K mortgage and a 50K job or 300K student debt and a 150K job what do you think would be the smart choice?  get a grip Dr's.  Yes you work hard, you work long hours and you deserve to be compensated for it.  Hence you earn more than 84% of Americans.  That is fair and reasonable.  If school is too expensive then lets decrease those costs for all.  

[kcballer]

It works like this KC - docs bill certain codes for procedures etc.  What they bill is not what they get though.  So for example - if a doc bills $125 he might only get back $60.00.  Out of that $60 he has to pay for the staff, overhead, rent etc. 

When the docs reimbursement gets cut, the only way the doc can make it up is less care and time with the patients.  Does that make sense to you? 

And you know these will work out that way how?  Hospital administrators will still take a bigger cut and schooling will continue to go up.  THOSE are the issues, pricing everything out at a higher and higher rate is not the answer. 

[kcballer]

Never heard that TORT reform is on the current bill.

Can anyone show it?  And is the reform impacting?

I'm not sure how impacting it is but huffington post had it as an issue republicans are crying over yet is actually in the bill.

[Kazan]

No body knows whats in the bill other than hear-say, has the bill been posted ( remember 72 hrs before a vote ) no.

[Soul Crusher]

No body knows whats in the bill other than hear-say, has the bill been posted ( remember 72 hrs before a vote ) no.

Its the Senate Bill essentially which is a complete farce.  Only a jackass would support that crap. 

[drkaje]

Someone making $50K is stupid to have a $300K mortgage in the first place.

[newmom]

Someone making $50K is stupid to have a $300K mortgage in the first place.

very true, they and the banks are at fault for that

[Soul Crusher]

very true, they and the banks are at fault for that

As is the borrwer! 

[newmom]

As is the borrwer! 
[/quote

that is what i meant about they and the banks

[shootfighter1]

Absolutely kaje.

Clarifications:  There are two type of practices: private and hospital based.  Because overhead costs have skyrocketed and there are more insurance & gov mandates (paperwork, HIPPA, EMR, etc) more docs are now working for hospitals.  Reimbursement doesn't directly affect the docs who are salaried by hospitals and the docs aren't billing but reimbursement directly impacts private docs who are self-employed or part of a small group practice.  Hope that helps explain things.

kc, your 84% and debt arguments don't account for all the other shit we had to go through and the fact that far less than 2 out of 10 Americans are able to become doctors.  Docs should be among the highest paid professions for all the reasons I mentioned in previous posts.  If everyone else is capped at 250K then I have less of a problem with a doc earning less than $150K.

[Kazan]

Doctors make to much money!

Really? Exactly how much is your life worth?

[Soul Crusher]

Absolutely kaje.

Clarifications:  There are two type of practices: private and hospital based.  Because overhead costs have skyrocketed and there are more insurance & gov mandates (paperwork, HIPPA, EMR, etc) more docs are now working for hospitals.  Reimbursement doesn't directly affect the docs who are salaried by hospitals and the docs aren't billing but reimbursement directly impacts private docs who are self-employed or part of a small group practice.  Hope that helps explain things.

kc, your 84% and debt arguments don't account for all the other shit we had to go through and the fact that far less than 2 out of 10 Americans are able to become doctors.  Docs should be among the highest paid professions for all the reasons I mentioned in previous posts.  If everyone else is capped at 250K then I have less of a problem with a doc earning less than $150K.

Shoot - it doesnt matter to the marxists!  

In their warped minds, garbage men should make as much as doctors.  

[kcballer]

Absolutely kaje.

Clarifications:  There are two type of practices: private and hospital based.  Because overhead costs have skyrocketed and there are more insurance & gov mandates (paperwork, HIPPA, EMR, etc) more docs are now working for hospitals.  Reimbursement doesn't directly affect the docs who are salaried by hospitals and the docs aren't billing but reimbursement directly impacts private docs who are self-employed or part of a small group practice.  Hope that helps explain things.

kc, your 84% and debt arguments don't account for all the other shit we had to go through and the fact that far less than 2 out of 10 Americans are able to become doctors.  Docs should be among the highest paid professions for all the reasons I mentioned in previous posts.  If everyone else is capped at 250K then I have less of a problem with a doc earning less than $150K.

Shoot please point out where i advocated a cap on salary or earnings.  Please anyone point out where i said they should not earn any more. 

I have said over and over again that they are fairly compensated.  80% of Americans can't do the job right shoot?  Well Dr's get paid better than 84% of Americans.  Seems like a very reasonable and fair average earning. 

Once again i've never said they should or anyone should be capped.  All i said was they earn a fair amount now.  I do advocate lower costs all around like schooling, lower administration fees etc.  Those i agree with.  But saying Dr's are not paid fairly i do NOT agree with.

[kcballer]

Shoot - it doesnt matter to the marxists!  

In their warped minds, garbage men should make as much as doctors.  

In your warped mind our president is born in kenya, sarah palin was a good candidate for VP and taxation is stealing 

[drkaje]

Absolutely kaje.

Clarifications:  There are two type of practices: private and hospital based.  Because overhead costs have skyrocketed and there are more insurance & gov mandates (paperwork, HIPPA, EMR, etc) more docs are now working for hospitals.  Reimbursement doesn't directly affect the docs who are salaried by hospitals and the docs aren't billing but reimbursement directly impacts private docs who are self-employed or part of a small group practice.  Hope that helps explain things.

kc, your 84% and debt arguments don't account for all the other shit we had to go through and the fact that far less than 2 out of 10 Americans are able to become doctors.  Docs should be among the highest paid professions for all the reasons I mentioned in previous posts.  If everyone else is capped at 250K then I have less of a problem with a doc earning less than $150K.

I should have been a little more specific. I more or less meant docs who trade technical and occasionally professional component for the privilege of treating patients in the hospital. You know them.... guys who have to get the "We provide a lot of infrastructure, costs have gone up, reimbursements have gone down so you've got to pay a little more to play" pep talk every two years.

[kcballer]

meanwhile....

[Soul Crusher]

Shoot please point out where i advocated a cap on salary or earnings.  Please anyone point out where i said they should not earn any more. 

I have said over and over again that they are fairly compensated.  80% of Americans can't do the job right shoot?  Well Dr's get paid better than 84% of Americans.  Seems like a very reasonable and fair average earning. 

Once again i've never said they should or anyone should be capped.  All i said was they earn a fair amount now.  I do advocate lower costs all around like schooling, lower administration fees etc.  Those i agree with.  But saying Dr's are not paid fairly i do NOT agree with.

How much should a doc earn per hour KC? 

[kcballer]

How much should a doc earn per hour KC? 

I have already stated this that what they currently earn as a salary is very fair and reasonable.  If there are shortages and Dr's are having to work longer hours than they would like then perhaps they should either renegotiate their contract or support the hiring of other Dr's to decrease the workload burden. 

[Soul Crusher]

I have already stated this that what they currently earn as a salary is very fair and reasonable.  If there are shortages and Dr's are having to work longer hours than they would like then perhaps they should either renegotiate their contract or support the hiring of other Dr's to decrease the workload burden. 

Right, and adding more patients onto their workload without an increase in reimbursement how does that work?

[drkaje]

Right, and adding more patients onto their workload without an increase in reimbursement how does that work?

Nurse practitioners will fill the gap at lower pay rates until doctors agree to work for less or find different careers.

[kcballer]

Right, and adding more patients onto their workload without an increase in reimbursement how does that work?

says who?  32 million more patients, yes.  but those 32 million now have coverage so it's no longer a bad debt write off for Dr or hospital.  dr's seem to be the only business i've heard of who shun more paying customers.  

[Soul Crusher]

says who?  32 million more patients, yes.  but those 32 million now have coverage so it's no longer a bad debt write off for Dr or hospital.  dr's seem to be the only business i've heard of who shun more paying customers.  

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And hence why you are a lib and complain about 6 minute doc visits.  .