Author Topic: Question Repubs regarding Health Care and the Deficit  (Read 1371 times)

Straw Man

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Question Repubs regarding Health Care and the Deficit
« on: March 19, 2010, 11:23:50 AM »
The CBO has scored the health care legislation as reducing the deficit by ~ 130 billion in the first ten year and 1.2 trillion over the next ten years.    That would seem on the surface to be a good thing but somehow Repubs think it's bad and won't vote for the bill.

Here's the part I don't understand.

Repubs overwhelmingly voted for the following 3 bills even though the CBO scored them all as INCREASING the deficit:

1.  Bush Tax Cuts 2001 - CBo score = INCREASE DEFICIT by 1.3 TRILLION
2.  Bush Tax Cuts 2003 - CBO score = INCREASE DEFICIT by 349 BILLION
3.  Medicare Part D - CBO score = INCREASE DEFICIT by 394 BILLION


You see why I can't take the Repubs seriously?

Soul Crusher

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Re: Question Repubs regarding Health Care and the Deficit
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2010, 12:26:33 PM »
The CBO has scored the health care legislation as reducing the deficit by ~ 130 billion in the first ten year and 1.2 trillion over the next ten years.    That would seem on the surface to be a good thing but somehow Repubs think it's bad and won't vote for the bill.

Here's the part I don't understand.

Repubs overwhelmingly voted for the following 3 bills even though the CBO scored them all as INCREASING the deficit:

1.  Bush Tax Cuts 2001 - CBo score = INCREASE DEFICIT by 1.3 TRILLION
2.  Bush Tax Cuts 2003 - CBO score = INCREASE DEFICIT by 349 BILLION
3.  Medicare Part D - CBO score = INCREASE DEFICIT by 394 BILLION


You see why I can't take the Repubs seriously?

You supported the 860 Billion Stim bill that was not paid for.  One gave people their money back, the other supported paying for studies on condoms. 

You see why no one takes you seriously?   

kcballer

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Re: Question Repubs regarding Health Care and the Deficit
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2010, 12:29:34 PM »
Ouch.  Straw bringing the pain!  Cue the CBO is liberal talk
Abandon every hope...

Soul Crusher

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Re: Question Repubs regarding Health Care and the Deficit
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2010, 12:32:34 PM »
Ouch.  Straw bringing the pain!  Cue the CBO is liberal talk

The Bush tax cuts increased revenue to the govt.  The issue was spending and 911 and the wars, which were not anticpated when those things occurred. 

Is that too hard for you mental patients to understand? 

kcballer

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Re: Question Repubs regarding Health Care and the Deficit
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2010, 12:37:40 PM »
The Bush tax cuts increased revenue to the govt.  The issue was spending and 911 and the wars, which were not anticpated when those things occurred. 

Is that too hard for you mental patients to understand? 

So you're saying increasing the tax cuts during that time in 2003 was dumb?
Abandon every hope...

Soul Crusher

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Re: Question Repubs regarding Health Care and the Deficit
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2010, 12:38:21 PM »
Ten Myths About the Bush Tax Cuts
Published on January 29, 2007 by Brian Riedl
www.heritage.org
________________________ ________________


The Democratic majority in the U.S. House of Rep­resentatives must decide whether to write a budget extending, expiring, or repealing the Bush tax cuts. These tax cuts have provided a convenient scapegoat for the nation's budget and economic challenges. Despite a 42 percent spending increase in 2001, critics charge that the tax cuts have starved popular pro­grams. Despite surging economic growth and 5 million new jobs since 2003, critics also charge that the tax cuts have not helped the economy. Finally, despite making the income tax code more progressive, critics charge that the tax cuts have widened inequality.

Nearly all of the conventional wisdom about the Bush tax cuts is wrong. In reality:

The tax cuts have not substantially reduced cur­rent tax revenues, which were in fact not far from the 2000 pre-tax cut baseline and over the 2003 pre-tax cut baseline in 2006;

The increased child tax credit, 10 percent tax bracket, and fix of the alternative minimum tax (AMT) reduced tax revenues much more than most of the "tax cuts for the rich";

Economic growth rates have more than doubled since the 2003 tax cuts; and

The tax cuts shifted even more of the income tax burden toward the rich.

Setting optimal tax policy requires governing with facts rather than popular mythology, which is why it is important to set the record straight by debunking 10 myths about the Bush tax cuts.

Ten Myths About the Bush Tax Cuts-and the Facts

Myth #1: Tax revenues remain low.
Fact: Tax revenues are above the historical average, even after the tax cuts.

Myth #2: The Bush tax cuts substantially reduced 2006 revenues and expanded the budget deficit.
Fact: Nearly all of the 2006 budget deficit resulted from additional spending above the baseline.

Myth #3: Supply-side economics assumes that all tax cuts immediately pay for themselves.
Fact: It assumes replenishment of some but not necessarily all lost revenues.

Myth #4: Capital gains tax cuts do not pay for themselves.
Fact: Capital gains tax revenues doubled following the 2003 tax cut.

Myth #5: The Bush tax cuts are to blame for the projected long-term budget deficits.
Fact: Projections show that entitlement costs will dwarf the projected large revenue increases.

Myth #6: Raising tax rates is the best way to raise revenue.
Fact: Tax revenues correlate with economic growth, not tax rates.

Myth #7: Reversing the upper-income tax cuts would raise substantial revenues.
Fact: The low-income tax cuts reduced revenues the most.

Myth #8: Tax cuts help the economy by "putting money in people's pockets."
Fact: Pro-growth tax cuts support incentives for productive behavior.

Myth #9: The Bush tax cuts have not helped the economy.
Fact: The economy responded strongly to the 2003 tax cuts.

Myth #10: The Bush tax cuts were tilted toward the rich.
Fact: The rich are now shouldering even more of the income tax burden.



Myth #1: Tax revenues remain low.
Fact: Tax revenues are above the historical average, even after the tax cuts.

Tax revenues in 2006 were 18.4 percent of gross domestic product (GDP), which is actually above the 20-year, 40-year, and 60-year historical aver­ages.[1] The inflation-adjusted 20 percent tax revenue increase between 2004 and 2006 represents the largest two-year revenue surge since 1965-1967.[2] Claims that Americans are undertaxed by historical standards are patently false.

Some critics of President George W. Bush's tax policies concede that tax revenues exceed the his­torical average yet assert that revenues are histori­cally low for economies in the fourth year of an expansion. Setting aside that some of these tax pol­icies are partly responsible for that economic expan­sion, the numbers simply do not support this claim. Comparing tax revenues in the fourth fiscal year after the end of each of the past three recessions shows nearly equal tax revenues of:

18.4 percent of GDP in 1987,
18.5 percent of GDP in 1995, and
18.4 percent of GDP in 2006.[3]

While revenues as a percentage of GDP have not fully returned to pre-recession levels (20.9 percent in 2000), it is now clear that the pre-recession level was a major historical anomaly caused by a tempo­rary stock market bubble.

Myth #2: The Bush tax cuts substantially reduced 2006 revenues and expanded the budget deficit.
Fact: Nearly all of the 2006 budget deficit resulted from additional spending above the baseline.

Critics tirelessly contend that America's swing from budget surpluses in 1998-2001 to a $247 bil­lion budget deficit in 2006 resulted chiefly from the "irresponsible" Bush tax cuts. This argument ignores the historic spending increases that pushed federal spending up from 18.5 percent of GDP in 2001 to 20.2 percent in 2006.[4]

The best way to measure the swing from surplus to deficit is by comparing the pre-tax cut budget baseline of the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) with what actually happened. While the January 2000 baseline projected a 2006 budget surplus of $325 billion, the final 2006 numbers showed a $247 billion deficit-a net drop of $572 billion. This drop occurred because spending was $514 bil­lion above projected levels, and revenues were $58 billion below (even after $188 billion in tax cuts). In other words, 90 percent of the swing from surplus to deficit resulted from higher-than-projected spending, and only 10 percent resulted from lower-than-projected revenues.[5] (See Chart 1.)

Furthermore, tax revenues in 2006 were actually above the levels projected before the 2003 tax cuts. Immediately before the 2003 tax cuts, the CBO pro­jected a 2006 budget deficit of $57 billion, yet the final 2006 budget deficit was $247 billion. The $190 billion deficit increase resulted from federal spend­ing that was $237 billion more than projected. Rev­enues were actually $47 billion above the projection, even after $75 billion in tax cuts enacted after the baseline was calculated.[6] By that standard, new spending was responsible for 125 percent of the higher 2006 budget deficit, and expanding revenues actually offset 25 percent of the new spending.

The 2006 tax revenues were not substantially far from levels projected before the Bush tax cuts. Despite estimates that the tax cuts would reduce 2006 revenues by $188 billion, they came in just $58 billion below the pre-tax cut revenue level pro­jected in January 2000.[7]

The difference is even more dramatic with the pro-growth 2003 tax cuts. The CBO calculated that the post-March 2003 tax cuts would lower 2006 revenues by $75 billion, yet 2006 revenues came in $47 billion above the pre-tax cut baseline released in March 2003. This is not a coincidence. Tax cuts clearly played a significant role in the economy's performing better than expected and recovering much of the lost revenue.

Myth #3: Supply-side economics assumes that all tax cuts immediately pay for themselves.
Fact: It assumes replenishment of some but not necessarily all lost revenues.

Attempts to debunk solid theories often involve first mischaracterizing them as straw men. Critics often erroneously define supply-side economics as the belief that all tax cuts pay for themselves. They then cite tax cuts that have not fully paid for them­selves as conclusive proof that supply-side econom­ics has failed.

However, supply-side economics never con­tended that all tax cuts pay for themselves. Rather the Laffer Curve[8] (upon which much of the supply-side theory is based) merely formalizes the com­mon-sense observations that:

Tax revenues depend on the tax base as well as the tax rate;

Raising tax rates discourages the taxed behavior and therefore shrinks the tax base, offsetting some of the revenue gains; and
Lowering tax rates encourages the taxed behav­ior and expands the tax base, offsetting some of the revenue loss.
If policymakers intend cigarette taxes to discour­age smoking, they should also expect high invest­ment taxes to discourage investment and income taxes to discourage work. Lowering taxes encour­ages people to engage in the given behavior, which expands the base and replenishes some of the lost revenue. This is the "feedback effect" of a tax cut.

Whether or not a tax cut recovers 100 percent of the lost revenue depends on the tax rate's location on the Laffer Curve. Each tax has a revenue-maxi­mizing rate at which future tax increases will reduce revenue. (This is the peak of the Laffer Curve.) Only when tax rates are above that level will reducing the tax rate actually increase revenue. Otherwise, it will replenish only a portion of the lost revenue.

How much feedback revenue a given tax cut will generate depends on the degree to which tax­payers adjust their behavior. Cutting sales and property tax rates generally induces smaller feed­back effects because taxpayers do not respond by substantially expanding their purchases or home-buying. Income taxes have a higher feedback effect. Nobel Prize-winning economist Ed Prescott has shown a strong cross-national link between lower income tax rates and higher work hours.[9] Investment taxes have the highest feedback effects because investors quickly move to avoid higher-taxed investments. Not surprisingly, history shows that higher investment taxes deeply curtail investment and consequently raise little (if any) new revenue.

Yet, using the standard set by some, even a hypothetical tax cut that provides real tax relief to millions of families and entrepreneurs and creates enough new income to recover 95 percent of the estimated revenue loss would be considered a "failure" of supply-side economics and thus merit a full repeal.

Myth #4: Capital gains tax cuts do not pay for themselves.

Fact: Capital gains tax revenues doubled following the 2003 tax cut.

As previously stated, whether a tax cut pays for itself depends on how much people alter their behavior in response to the policy. Investors have been shown to be the most sensitive to tax pol­icy, because capital gains tax cuts encourage enough new investment to more than offset the lower tax rate.

In 2003, capital gains tax rates were reduced from 20 percent and 10 percent (depending on income) to 15 percent and 5 percent. Rather than expand by 36 percent from the current $50 billion level to $68 billion in 2006 as the CBO projected before the tax cut, capital gains revenues more than doubled to $103 billion.[10] (See Chart 2.) Past cap­ital gains tax cuts have shown similar results.

By encouraging investment, lower capital gains taxes increase funding for the technologies, busi­nesses, ideas, and projects that make workers and the economy more productive. Such investment is vital for long-term economic growth.

Because investors are tax-sensitive, high capital gains tax rates are not only bad economic policy, but also bad budget policy.

Myth #5: The Bush tax cuts are to blame for the projected long-term budget deficits.
Fact: Projections show that entitlement costs will dwarf the projected large revenue increases.

The unsustainability of America's long-term bud­get path is well known. However, a common mis­perception blames the massive future budget deficits on the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts. In reality, revenues will continue to increase above the histor­ical average yet be dwarfed by historic entitlement spending increases. (See Chart 3.)

For the past half-century, tax revenues have gen­erally stayed within 1 percentage point of 18 per­cent of GDP. The CBO projects that, even if all 2001 and 2003 tax cuts are made permanent, revenues will stillincrease from 18.4 percent of GDP today to 22.8 percent by 2050, not counting any feedback revenues from their positive economic impact. It is projected that repealing the Bush tax cuts would nudge 2050 revenues up to 23.7 percent of GDP, not counting any revenue losses from the negative economic impact of the tax hikes.[11] In effect, the Bush tax cut debate is whether revenues should increase by 4.4 percent or 5.3 percent of GDP.

Spending has remained around 20 percent of GDP for the past half-century. However, the coming retirement of the baby boomers will increase Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid spending by a combined 10.5 percent of GDP. Assuming that this causes large budget deficits and increased net spending on interest, federal spending could surge to 38 percent of GDP and possibly much higher.[12]

Overall, revenues are projected to increase from 18 percent of GDP to almost 23 percent. Spending is projected to increase from 20 percent of GDP to at least 38 percent. Even repealing all of the 2001 and 2003 cuts would merely shave the projected budget deficit of 15 percent of GDP by less than 1 percentage point, and that assumes no negative feedback from raising taxes. Clearly, the French-style spending increases, not tax policy, are the problem. Lawmakers should focus on getting entitlements under control.


Myth #6: Raising tax rates is the best way to raise revenue.
Fact: Tax revenues correlate with economic growth, not tax rates.

Many of those who desire additional tax revenues regularly call on Congress to raise tax rates, but tax revenues are a function of two variables: tax rates and the tax base. The tax base typically moves in the opposite direction of the tax rate, partially negating the revenue impact of tax rate changes. Accordingly, Chart 4 shows little correlation between tax rates and tax revenues. Since 1952, the highest marginal income tax rate has dropped from 92 percent to 35 percent, and tax revenues have grown in inflation-adjusted terms while remaining constant as a per­cent of GDP.

Chart 5 shows the nearly perfect correlation between GDP and tax revenues. Despite major fluc­tuations in income tax rates, long-term tax revenues have grown at almost exactly the same rate as GDP, remaining between 17 percent and 20 percent of GDP for 46 of the past 50 years. Table 1 shows that the top marginal income tax rate topped 90 percent during the 1950s and that revenues averaged 17.2 percent of GDP. By the 1990s, the top marginal income tax rate averaged just 36 per­cent, and tax revenues averaged 18.3 percent of GDP. Regardless of the tax rate, tax revenues have almost always come in at approximately 18 percent of GDP.[13]

Since revenues move with GDP, the common-sense way to increase tax revenues is to expand the GDP. This means that pro-growth policies such as low marginal tax rates (especially on work, savings, and investment), restrained federal spending, minimal regulation, and free trade would raise more tax revenues than would be raised by self-defeating tax increases. America cannot substantially increase tax revenue with policies that reduce national income.

Myth #7: Reversing the upper-income tax cuts would raise substantial revenues.
Fact: The low-income tax cuts reduced revenues the most.

Many critics of tax cuts nonetheless support extending the increased child tax credit, marriage penalty relief, and the 10 percent income tax bracket because these policies strongly benefit low-income tax families. They also support annually adjusting the alternative minimum tax exemption for inflation to prevent a massive broad-based tax increase. These critics assert that repealing the tax cuts for upper-income individuals and investors and bringing back the pre-2001 estate tax levels can raise substantial revenue. Once again, the numbers fail to support this claim.

In 2007, according to CBO and Joint Committee on Taxation data, the increased child tax credit, mar­riage penalty relief, 10 percent bracket, and AMT fix will have a combined budgetary effect of $114 bil­lion.[14] (See Table 2.) These policies do not have strong supply-side effects to minimize that effect.

By comparison, the more maligned capital gains, dividends, and estate tax cuts are projected to reduce 2007 revenues by just $36 billion even before the large and positive supply-side effects are incorporated. Thus, repealing these tax cuts would raise very little revenue and could possibly even reduce federal tax revenue. Such tax increases would certainly reduce the savings and investment vital to economic growth.

The individual income tax rate reductions come to $59 billion in 2007 and are not really a tax cut for the rich. All families with taxable incomes over $62,000 (and single filers over $31,000) benefit. Repealing this tax cut would reduce work incentives and raise taxes on millions of families and small businesses, thereby harming the economy and min­imizing any new revenues.

Myth #8: Tax cuts help the economy by "putting money in people's pockets."
Fact: Pro-growth tax cuts support incentives for productive behavior.

Government spending does not "pump new money into the economy" because government must first tax or borrow that money out of the economy. Claims that tax cuts benefit the econ­omy by "putting money in people's pockets" rep­resent the flip side of the pump-priming fallacy. Instead, the right tax cuts help the economy by reducing government's influence on economic decisions and allowing people to respond more to market mechanisms, thereby encouraging more productive behavior.


tonymctones

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Re: Question Repubs regarding Health Care and the Deficit
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2010, 12:46:57 PM »
The CBO has scored the health care legislation as reducing the deficit by ~ 130 billion in the first ten year and 1.2 trillion over the next ten years.    That would seem on the surface to be a good thing but somehow Repubs think it's bad and won't vote for the bill.

Here's the part I don't understand.

Repubs overwhelmingly voted for the following 3 bills even though the CBO scored them all as INCREASING the deficit:

1.  Bush Tax Cuts 2001 - CBo score = INCREASE DEFICIT by 1.3 TRILLION
2.  Bush Tax Cuts 2003 - CBO score = INCREASE DEFICIT by 349 BILLION
3.  Medicare Part D - CBO score = INCREASE DEFICIT by 394 BILLION


You see why I can't take the Repubs seriously?
goodness gracious  ::) your not only willingly ignorant but you try to spread your ignorance...why? why straw does this bill but the deficit? ask yourself why?

dario73

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Re: Question Repubs regarding Health Care and the Deficit
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2010, 12:51:53 PM »
Ouch.  Straw bringing the pain!  Cue the CBO is liberal talk

You and the strawman with no brain must have failed math.

Not only that but you 2 idiots don't understand that the CBO themselves cautioned every lawmaker by stating that the report did not take into account discretionary spending and any other cost tied in with amendments to be made by the Senate. Why did it not take that discretionary spending into account? Because no one, not even Obama the false messiah, knows exactly how much that will total once everything is said and done. The only certainty is that the discretionary cost will occur and it will reduce greatly the impact of this bill on the deficit. Not only that, but the CBO took into account reduction in student loans. What does that have to do with health care? Not everyone is studying to be a doctor or a nurse.

If this bill passes it will not reduce the deficit and it will cost way more than estimated. Once that discretionary spending starts mounting, the cost will be too great.  When the news come out of the real cost, I hope you 2 morons are still posting, so that you can remind us again why this bill is so great.

240 is Back

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Re: Question Repubs regarding Health Care and the Deficit
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2010, 12:52:30 PM »
Both parties spend like drunken sailors.

Does anyone disagree?

kcballer

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Re: Question Repubs regarding Health Care and the Deficit
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2010, 12:52:38 PM »
Did you or did you not just defend the Bush tax cuts as revenue generating except because "The issue was spending and 911 and the wars, which were not anticipated when those things occurred"

9/11 occurred in 2001 correct?  Iraq started in 2003 correct?  We invaded Afghanistan in 2001 correct?

So by your own words of logic the issue was "spending" due to those factors.  Somehow those factors of spending you referenced occurred during the period between the first tax cuts and the second.  So with spending being the issue wouldn't you not cut taxes whilst spending for two wars?  

  
Abandon every hope...

Soul Crusher

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Re: Question Repubs regarding Health Care and the Deficit
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2010, 12:58:27 PM »
Did you or did you not just defend the Bush tax cuts as revenue generating except because "The issue was spending and 911 and the wars, which were not anticipated when those things occurred"

9/11 occurred in 2001 correct?  Iraq started in 2003 correct?  We invaded Afghanistan in 2001 correct?

So by your own words of logic the issue was "spending" due to those factors.  Somehow those factors of spending you referenced occurred during the period between the first tax cuts and the second.  So with spending being the issue wouldn't you not cut taxes whilst spending for two wars?  

  

tHE TAX CUTS OCCURED PRIOR TO THE ATTACK YOU FOOL! 

BM OUT

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Re: Question Repubs regarding Health Care and the Deficit
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2010, 01:05:34 PM »
Once again.the TAX CUTS GENERATED MORE REVENUES TO THE GOVERNMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

kcballer

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Re: Question Repubs regarding Health Care and the Deficit
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2010, 01:10:19 PM »
tHE TAX CUTS OCCURED PRIOR TO THE ATTACK YOU FOOL! 

So the tax cuts of 2003 never occurred? 
Abandon every hope...

BM OUT

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Re: Question Repubs regarding Health Care and the Deficit
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2010, 01:14:19 PM »
So the tax cuts of 2003 never occurred? 

There has NEVER been tax cuts that didnt increase revenues to the government,the problem is when the money rolls in they spend it on more non sense.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Question Repubs regarding Health Care and the Deficit
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2010, 01:15:40 PM »
There has NEVER been tax cuts that didnt increase revenues to the government,the problem is when the money rolls in they spend it on more non sense.

Arguing with marxists is useless.  They think its their money to spend like a wishlist and no amount thatt he taxpayer ever sends will satiate their quest for more and more until we are a communist nation. 

Skip8282

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Re: Question Repubs regarding Health Care and the Deficit
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2010, 01:17:07 PM »
The CBO has scored the health care legislation as reducing the deficit by ~ 130 billion in the first ten year and 1.2 trillion over the next ten years.    That would seem on the surface to be a good thing but somehow Repubs think it's bad and won't vote for the bill.

Here's the part I don't understand.

Repubs overwhelmingly voted for the following 3 bills even though the CBO scored them all as INCREASING the deficit:

1.  Bush Tax Cuts 2001 - CBo score = INCREASE DEFICIT by 1.3 TRILLION
2.  Bush Tax Cuts 2003 - CBO score = INCREASE DEFICIT by 349 BILLION
3.  Medicare Part D - CBO score = INCREASE DEFICIT by 394 BILLION


You see why I can't take the Repubs seriously?


To me, it's apples and oranges.  You're comparing studies with a solid historical basis to the current one.  For the CBO's current projections, they're using a model (70,000 hypothetical people) and making a lot of assumptions about behavior.

Look at this way, even with a historical basis and tons of data, the Medicare prescription drug benefit score was off by 40% (I'll agree that figure can be argued), but it was a good 40%.  In other words, it was cheaper than thought.

So with all this available historical data, they were still 40%(or so) off.  Now, they have even more limited data.

I suppose it's best to just say...I'm skeptical.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Question Repubs regarding Health Care and the Deficit
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2010, 01:18:57 PM »

To me, it's apples and oranges.  You're comparing studies with a solid historical basis to the current one.  For the CBO's current projections, they're using a model (70,000 hypothetical people) and making a lot of assumptions about behavior.

Look at this way, even with a historical basis and tons of data, the Medicare prescription drug benefit score was off by 40% (I'll agree that figure can be argued), but it was a good 40%.  In other words, it was cheaper than thought.

So with all this available historical data, they were still 40%(or so) off.  Now, they have even more limited data.

I suppose it's best to just say...I'm skeptical.

Medicare off by a factor by about 5!  It was supposed to cost 19 Billion in 1990 and was actually over 90 Billion a year!   

Skip8282

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Re: Question Repubs regarding Health Care and the Deficit
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2010, 01:24:46 PM »
Medicare off by a factor by about 5!  It was supposed to cost 19 Billion in 1990 and was actually over 90 Billion a year!   


I was referring to the prescription drug benefit circa 2003.

kcballer

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Re: Question Repubs regarding Health Care and the Deficit
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2010, 01:25:47 PM »
So the tax cuts of 2003 never occurred? 

Bump for 333.  So the tax cuts in 2003 never happened?  They were somehow predated to the 2001 pre 9/11 ones? 

 ;D
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Soul Crusher

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Re: Question Repubs regarding Health Care and the Deficit
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2010, 01:27:30 PM »
Bump for 333.  So the tax cuts in 2003 never happened?  They were somehow predated to the 2001 pre 9/11 ones? 

 ;D

The ones screamed about by Straw were the ones of 2001 fool.  They had a 10 year susnset provision and are set to esxpire next year. 

ObamaMAO already said he is going to let those lapse and will essentially be deliveringanother massive tax increase to those well under 250k a year. 


kcballer

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Re: Question Repubs regarding Health Care and the Deficit
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2010, 01:39:20 PM »
The ones screamed about by Straw were the ones of 2001 fool.  They had a 10 year susnset provision and are set to esxpire next year. 

ObamaMAO already said he is going to let those lapse and will essentially be deliveringanother massive tax increase to those well under 250k a year. 



I was referencing the 2003 cuts.  This was my initial question - "Somehow those factors of spending you referenced occurred during the period between the first tax cuts and the second.  So with spending being the issue wouldn't you not cut taxes whilst spending for two wars?"

Wouldn't it make sense then to not have furthered tax cuts in 2003?  By your logic you were against them correct?
Abandon every hope...

Soul Crusher

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Re: Question Repubs regarding Health Care and the Deficit
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2010, 01:40:45 PM »
I was referencing the 2003 cuts.  This was my initial question - "Somehow those factors of spending you referenced occurred during the period between the first tax cuts and the second.  So with spending being the issue wouldn't you not cut taxes whilst spending for two wars?"

Wouldn't it make sense then to not have furthered tax cuts in 2003?  By your logic you were against them correct?

i already showed you that the tax cuts INCREASED reveneue to the govt. 

kcballer

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Re: Question Repubs regarding Health Care and the Deficit
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2010, 01:48:02 PM »
i already showed you that the tax cuts INCREASED reveneue to the govt. 

Then why was there a deficit?  Could it be that cutting taxes and spending more than you bring in weren't smart post 9/11?  If cutting taxes alone leads to more revenue why do we even pay taxes?  Wouldn't your logic mean if no one paid taxes the government would have more revenue? 
Abandon every hope...

Soul Crusher

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Re: Question Repubs regarding Health Care and the Deficit
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2010, 01:50:29 PM »
Then why was there a deficit?  Could it be that cutting taxes and spending more than you bring in weren't smart post 9/11?  If cutting taxes alone leads to more revenue why do we even pay taxes?  Wouldn't your logic mean if no one paid taxes the government would have more revenue? 

I have said many times that was one of GWB biggest faults was not cutting spending one of his biggest failures. 

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Re: Question Repubs regarding Health Care and the Deficit
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2010, 06:26:20 PM »
My statement at the beginning of this thread is that Repubs voted for all three of these bills when they knew the CBO scored them as increasing the deficit.

True or False ? ( the answer is true)

3333 - spare me the Heritage Foundation talking points.  They're still trying to get us to believe in supply side economics even though after almost 30 years we can see the result for ourselves