Author Topic: Universal Healthcare - cheaper and now in the USA  (Read 64286 times)

Matt C

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Re: Universal Healthcare - cheaper and now in the USA
« Reply #500 on: March 26, 2010, 02:01:23 AM »
I want to say that for all the flaws I've mentioned before about Canada's health care system, it is pretty good.

I also want to say that for all the praise I've given to the free market and insurance companies, the American system does have flaws.

Neither system is perfect.

With that said, making something "free and universal" is not going to automatically make it better.  Some will certainly benefit but others will certainly suffer under the changes to the US health care system.
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Re: Universal Healthcare - cheaper and now in the USA
« Reply #501 on: March 26, 2010, 09:15:59 AM »
I want to say that for all the flaws I've mentioned before about Canada's health care system, it is pretty good.

I also want to say that for all the praise I've given to the free market and insurance companies, the American system does have flaws.

Neither system is perfect.

With that said, making something "free and universal" is not going to automatically make it better.  Some will certainly benefit but others will certainly suffer under the changes to the US health care system.

When you have systems....any systems that are big you're going to have flaws that will never be resolved, there is no such thing as a "perfect" system. But create a "system" that will bankrupt (we pretty much already are) a country is unacceptable. Lets face it, his ONLY goal is to get the people to depend on the government then tax the shit out them to cover the costs. If he was the CEO of a company he would have been out in the first 3 months.

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Re: Universal Healthcare - cheaper and now in the USA
« Reply #502 on: March 26, 2010, 10:21:01 AM »
When you have systems....any systems that are big you're going to have flaws that will never be resolved, there is no such thing as a "perfect" system. But create a "system" that will bankrupt (we pretty much already are) a country is unacceptable. Lets face it, his ONLY goal is to get the people to depend on the government then tax the shit out them to cover the costs. If he was the CEO of a company he would have been out in the first 3 months.

don't you beleive in a talking snake?

You cannot objectively look at obama, your avatar quote sums that up nicely. Use your brain, look at this objectively, how many people were suffering with no health care, poor health care? The system makes no sense when the only ones who can afford proper health care are the ones who have more then enough and thus require it the least. The poor/middle require health care the most if you didn't know, canada definitely has it flaws, but when people cite people travelling to the US to have operations it is rich people who don't want to wait. In canada you have to wait like everyone else, you are not special, thus if i had the cash i wouldn't want to wait and would opt for quick service. It's just common sense.

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Re: Universal Healthcare - cheaper and now in the USA
« Reply #503 on: March 26, 2010, 02:12:24 PM »
don't you beleive in a talking snake?

You cannot objectively look at obama, your avatar quote sums that up nicely. Use your brain, look at this objectively, how many people were suffering with no health care, poor health care? The system makes no sense when the only ones who can afford proper health care are the ones who have more then enough and thus require it the least. The poor/middle require health care the most if you didn't know, canada definitely has it flaws, but when people cite people travelling to the US to have operations it is rich people who don't want to wait. In canada you have to wait like everyone else, you are not special, thus if i had the cash i wouldn't want to wait and would opt for quick service. It's just common sense.

Yes the rich feel the need to be treated special, like the are better than the other person.  Christian values teach you you are not better than anyone person, but money seems to dilute Christians minds unfortunately. 

The man on the street is just as important as you Coach, if your Christian and I take it you are since you are a conservative republican.

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Re: Universal Healthcare - cheaper and now in the USA
« Reply #504 on: March 26, 2010, 02:16:23 PM »
don't you beleive in a talking snake?

You cannot objectively look at obama, your avatar quote sums that up nicely. Use your brain, look at this objectively, how many people were suffering with no health care, poor health care? The system makes no sense when the only ones who can afford proper health care are the ones who have more then enough and thus require it the least. The poor/middle require health care the most if you didn't know, canada definitely has it flaws, but when people cite people travelling to the US to have operations it is rich people who don't want to wait. In canada you have to wait like everyone else, you are not special, thus if i had the cash i wouldn't want to wait and would opt for quick service. It's just common sense.

Yes the rich feel the need to be treated special, like the are better than the other person.  Christian values teach you you are not better than anyone person, but money seems to dilute Christians minds unfortunately. 

The man on the street is just as important as you Coach, if your Christian and I take it you are since you are a conservative republican.

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Re: Universal Healthcare - cheaper and now in the USA
« Reply #505 on: March 26, 2010, 02:26:25 PM »
Never said I was better than anyone, I'm just not lazy. If you want to throw Christianity into the mix, how looking what it says about lazy people.

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Re: Universal Healthcare - cheaper and now in the USA
« Reply #506 on: March 26, 2010, 02:29:56 PM »
Never said I was better than anyone, I'm just not lazy. If you want to throw Christianity into the mix, how looking what it says about lazy people.

I don't know much about Christianity, I am Muslim, but I do know Christianity stresses people are equal. 

The thing is not all people without health care are lazy.  Tons of companies get by without giving or offering their employees health care because they can and are cheap.  This makes them do it or pay a fine.  Many working people do not have it because they cannot afford it with the job they have.  Health care cost a lot of money if you employer doesn't provide it.

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Re: Universal Healthcare - cheaper and now in the USA
« Reply #507 on: March 26, 2010, 05:13:52 PM »
I don't know much about Christianity, I am Muslim, but I do know Christianity stresses people are equal.  

The thing is not all people without health care are lazy.  Tons of companies get by without giving or offering their employees health care because they can and are cheap.  This makes them do it or pay a fine.  Many working people do not have it because they cannot afford it with the job they have.  Health care cost a lot of money if you employer doesn't provide it.



How are they supposed to do that if they can't afford it? Companies who can't afford it (small businesses) will go out of business that translates to more jobs lost among a host of other things. jt, you seriously need to analyze things before you spout of nonsense like that.


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Re: Universal Healthcare - cheaper and now in the USA
« Reply #508 on: March 26, 2010, 06:58:51 PM »
 Universal Healthcare sounds great and all, however, the government cannot afford it.  You cannot continue to keep on raising the debt ceiling without there being some serious consequences that will probably be soon upon us.  Rapidly disappearing manufacturing base, rising unemployment, low-wage service based economy, two wars going on, billions in foreign aid(#1 Israel, #2 Saudi Arabia), reckless and stupid spending, trade deficits, welfare/food stamp/Section 8 handouts, medicare fraud, millions of unskilled, non-assimilating, nationalistic immigrants pouring into our country, devaluing of the dollar......and people continue to debate stupid shit like rednecks throwing a brick through a politician's office window or if Obama is a communist or not.

 Government finances should be run like a business, but it never is.  People who want all these things that are taken for granted, like, you know, our military, police, fire, roads, schools, social security, medicare, etc....think all this shit is paid for out of some government bottomless bag.  It isn't.  Our debts will catch up to us.
 
 So which is it?  Forgiveness of all debts?  Sink the dollar, and start a new commodity-based currency?  Or let the US become the world's biggest garage sale at rock bottom prices?

hey ignoramous, the US can easily afford universal healthcare. WE ALREADY SPEND MORE THAN ENOUGH MONEY ON OUR CURRENT HEALTHCARE SYSTEM THAN WOULD BE NECESSARY FOR US TO HAVE UNIVERSALL COVERAGE.



Health Statistics > Health care funding > Total per capita (most recent) by country

 # 1    United States: $4,631.00 per capita  
# 2    Switzerland: $3,222.00 per capita  
# 3    Germany: $2,748.00 per capita  
# 4    Iceland: $2,608.00 per capita  
# 5    Canada: $2,535.00 per capita  
# 6    Denmark: $2,420.00 per capita  
# 7    France: $2,349.00 per capita  
= 8    Belgium: $2,268.00 per capita  
= 8    Norway: $2,268.00 per capita  
# 10    Netherlands: $2,246.00 per capita

tbombz

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Re: Universal Healthcare - cheaper and now in the USA
« Reply #509 on: March 26, 2010, 06:59:48 PM »
Wise man.
you are ignorant for considering him wise based upon that post

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Re: Universal Healthcare - cheaper and now in the USA
« Reply #510 on: March 26, 2010, 07:20:07 PM »
you are ignorant for considering him wise based upon that post

He is right about the government needing to be run like a business, which is what my comment was aimed at.


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Re: Universal Healthcare - cheaper and now in the USA
« Reply #511 on: March 26, 2010, 07:38:36 PM »
Yeah Tbombz, they can just print more money, it won't cost anything right?

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Re: Universal Healthcare - cheaper and now in the USA
« Reply #512 on: March 26, 2010, 07:51:33 PM »
Yeah Tbombz, they can just print more money, it won't cost anything right?




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Re: Universal Healthcare - cheaper and now in the USA
« Reply #513 on: March 26, 2010, 08:25:45 PM »





Thats exactly how I feel when liberals make stupid posts like Tbombz.

che

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Re: Universal Healthcare - cheaper and now in the USA
« Reply #514 on: March 26, 2010, 08:27:26 PM »
Never said I was better than anyone, I'm just not lazy. If you want to throw Christianity into the mix, how looking what it says about lazy people.
Just because someone experienced economic difficulties in their life does not mean they are lazy or poor planners that screwed  themselves.

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Re: Universal Healthcare - cheaper and now in the USA
« Reply #515 on: March 26, 2010, 08:37:37 PM »
Just because someone experienced economic difficulties in their life does not mean they are lazy or poor planners that screwed  themselves.

Most of us have at one point or another but not all of us depend on government handouts to get back on our feet. I say "our" because I was there at one point. Socialism makes the lazy lazier.

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Re: Universal Healthcare - cheaper and now in the USA
« Reply #516 on: March 26, 2010, 08:56:48 PM »
  Universal Healthcare sounds great and all, however, the government cannot afford it.  You cannot continue to keep on raising the debt ceiling without there being some serious consequences that will probably be soon upon us.  Rapidly disappearing manufacturing base, rising unemployment, low-wage service based economy, two wars going on, billions in foreign aid(#1 Israel, #2 Saudi Arabia), reckless and stupid spending, trade deficits, welfare/food stamp/Section 8 handouts, medicare fraud, millions of unskilled, non-assimilating, nationalistic immigrants pouring into our country, devaluing of the dollar......and people continue to debate stupid shit like rednecks throwing a brick through a politician's office window or if Obama is a communist or not.

 Government finances should be run like a business, but it never is.  People who want all these things that are taken for granted, like, you know, our military, police, fire, roads, schools, social security, medicare, etc....think all this shit is paid for out of some government bottomless bag.  It isn't.  Our debts will catch up to us.
 
 So which is it?  Forgiveness of all debts?  Sink the dollar, and start a new commodity-based currency?  Or let the US become the world's biggest garage sale at rock bottom prices?

great comment.

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Re: Universal Healthcare - cheaper and now in the USA
« Reply #517 on: March 26, 2010, 08:59:00 PM »
obonga s going to be the first and last colored president of the US.

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Re: Universal Healthcare - cheaper and now in the USA
« Reply #518 on: March 26, 2010, 09:02:03 PM »
This recent article from The Economist magazine sums Nancy Pelosi up perfectly:

Nancy Pelosi's challenge
The House speaker is not popular with voters. But she can count noses

Mar 18th 2010 | From The Economist print edition

WHEN Nancy Pelosi moved to San Francisco, she struggled to find somewhere to live. For months, and with four small children, she lodged with her mother-in-law. So she was relieved when she found a perfect home to rent: big, childproof and with swings in the garden. She was about to seal the deal when she discovered that the owner’s husband was heading east to join the Nixon administration. “We won’t be able to live here,” she said. “I could never live anyplace that was made available because of the election of Richard Nixon.”

If this story were told by a Republican, Lexington would dismiss it as apocryphal. It confirms too neatly the caricature of Mrs Pelosi as a petty and tribal partisan. But the source is Mrs Pelosi’s autobiography, “Know Your Power: a Message to America’s Daughters”. And in case you think it out of character, she adds that her daughter Alexandra “often says to me that she knows everything she needs to know about me by hearing that story.”

As health-care reform hangs in the balance, nearly everything depends on the House of Representatives. To simplify a gruesomely complex process: if House Democrats approve a health bill the Senate passed last year (plus a few tweaks), America will have something close to universal health insurance. The left’s fondest ambition will become law, and Barack Obama will suddenly look like a successful president. A vote is expected within days, but only if Mrs Pelosi, the House speaker, can hold her party together. Is she up to the job?

Mrs Pelosi is arguably the most powerful woman in American history. There have been female governors, secretaries of state and Supreme Court justices, but only one female speaker. When she won the gavel, after the Democratic landslide of 2006, many saw it as a sign that the “marble ceiling” in American politics was cracking. Mrs Pelosi called it “a pivotal moment for all women”. But others saw it as depressing evidence of the lingering power of political dynasties. Mrs Pelosi’s family are not quite Democratic royalty, like the Kennedys or the Clintons, but they are certainly aristocrats. Her father, Thomas D’Alesandro, was a congressman and mayor of Baltimore. Her brother was also mayor of Baltimore. She made her first public speech when she was seven, at her father’s swearing-in.

Despite her hyper-political upbringing, she is a mediocre orator. Harold Meyerson, a friendly journalist, likens her rhetoric to “a compendium of bumper-stickers”. Unlike, say, Newt Gingrich, a former Republican speaker, she has few interesting thoughts about policy. Her autobiography contains less substance than Sarah Palin’s, which is saying something. And although she has no trouble getting re-elected in San Francisco, she is unpopular in the country as a whole. A recent Daily Kos poll found that only 22% of independents and 7% of Republicans view her favourably. But an effective speaker need not be loved, or think original thoughts. Her job is to round up votes. And at this, Mrs Pelosi excels.

She learned the family business by watching her father dole out jobs and her mother keep a file of favours owed. As a little girl, she answered the phone and told supplicants whom to call to get on welfare or into the city hospital. Six decades later, she is a master of horse-trading. Although she is on her party’s left, centrist Democrats find her a good listener. She is far more disciplined than the House Democrats’ previous leader, Dick Gephardt, and does a better job of keeping her fractious party united.

Which is just as well, because health care is a tough sell. Not one Republican will touch it, so she needs 85% of her party’s votes for a bare majority. Some pro-life Democrats, such as Bart Stupak of Michigan, bridle because they think the Senate bill would use public funds to pay for abortions. Some Hispanic Democrats, such as Luis Gutierrez of Illinois, are angry that it bars illegal immigrants from buying insurance through government-sponsored exchanges. Some left-wingers remain aloof because it does not include a government-run insurer, though one leader of the half-a-loaf-is-worse-than-none faction, Dennis Kucinich of Ohio, recanted two days after sharing a stage with Barack Obama and being urged by the crowd to vote yes. And a bevy of fiscally conservative Democrats, many of them from swing districts, fret that a costly new entitlement will shatter both the budget and their chances of re-election. A new poll in 35 swing districts found that, by a two-to-one margin, voters there want their representatives to scrap the current bill.
The smiling finger-breaker

So Mrs Pelosi is coaxing waverers, calling in favours, breaking fingers and pulling toenails. The Democratic Party controls the White House and has big majorities in both arms of Congress. If it can’t enact universal health care now, when can it? If Obamacare flops at the finish line, Democrats will look hopelessly incompetent. Their opponents will be enthused; their supporters, despondent. “Our kids cannot wait another moment for us to act,” says Mrs Pelosi, in bumper-sticker mode.

She may not see it this way, but the Republicans have done a skilful job of blocking health reform by using the same tactics that she once used against them. When the Democrats were in opposition, her style was to demonise Republican proposals without offering an alternative. It worked. In 2005, for example, when George Bush suggested allowing workers to divert some of their Social Security payments into private accounts, Mrs Pelosi portrayed this as a plan to unravel public pensions. Voters were spooked, and the plan died. Today, Republicans decry Obamacare in similarly hysterical terms, and voters are once again spooked. It will take all the speaker’s skill—and some ugly parliamentary manoeuvres—to enact health reform. But if Mrs Pelosi succeeds, she will take her place in the Democratic pantheon.

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Re: Universal Healthcare - cheaper and now in the USA
« Reply #519 on: March 30, 2010, 12:37:13 PM »
Most of us have at one point or another but not all of us depend on government handouts to get back on our feet. I say "our" because I was there at one point. Socialism makes the lazy lazier.

the lazy will be lazy no matter what, do as little as possible to get by and hang on the coatails of the next, its always been that way. However, there are alot of poor people, even middle class workaholics that are not lazy and suffer from lack of coverage, this is the biggest population in the US that this change hopes to affect.

Rich people are usually handed more then most, you realize that right? not everyone is a self made millionaire, wether dad paid for school or handed you the keys to the buisness most exceptionally wealthy people are not self made. The other group are the hardworkers who have innate talents that others don't, why should they get the benefits also? It's like the more you have in life to work with the more you should get mentality. If life is going to carry on we need to help each other and pull others up when they are down i geuss im closer to jesus then you huh? Didnt jesus say to give up all your possessions? to help the poor and that he would be found amongst the poor and sick?

Regardless of the fact that, that philosophy is ridiculous and unreachable it still has a modicum of truth and maybe you should analyze what  the one life you have means and if working harder then the next guy means  more then helping the next guy?


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Re: Universal Healthcare - cheaper and now in the USA
« Reply #520 on: March 30, 2010, 06:01:19 PM »
the lazy will be lazy no matter what, do as little as possible to get by and hang on the coatails of the next, its always been that way. However, there are alot of poor people, even middle class workaholics that are not lazy and suffer from lack of coverage, this is the biggest population in the US that this change hopes to affect.

Rich people are usually handed more then most, you realize that right? not everyone is a self made millionaire, wether dad paid for school or handed you the keys to the buisness most exceptionally wealthy people are not self made. The other group are the hardworkers who have innate talents that others don't, why should they get the benefits also? It's like the more you have in life to work with the more you should get mentality. If life is going to carry on we need to help each other and pull others up when they are down i geuss im closer to jesus then you huh? Didnt jesus say to give up all your possessions? to help the poor and that he would be found amongst the poor and sick?

Regardless of the fact that, that philosophy is ridiculous and unreachable it still has a modicum of truth and maybe you should analyze what  the one life you have means and if working harder then the next guy means  more then helping the next guy?


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Re: Universal Healthcare - cheaper and now in the USA
« Reply #521 on: March 30, 2010, 06:11:34 PM »
my fiance is dyiing....


it sux


she could benefit from this......this healthcare bill


she tells me she hates this so.......



gawd ......living day to day.....i respect her so much for.........that woman refuses to be a mooch.....and i love her for it
carpe` vaginum!

kiwiol

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Re: Universal Healthcare - cheaper and now in the USA
« Reply #522 on: March 30, 2010, 06:14:56 PM »
my fiance is dyiing....


it sux


she could benefit from this......this healthcare bill


she tells me she hates this so.......



gawd ......living day to day.....i respect her so much for.........that woman refuses to be a mooch.....and i love her for it

Sorry to hear that, man. What is she suffering from?

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Re: Universal Healthcare - cheaper and now in the USA
« Reply #523 on: March 30, 2010, 06:16:24 PM »
Sorry to hear that, man. What is she suffering from?
dead kidneys
carpe` vaginum!

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Re: Universal Healthcare - cheaper and now in the USA
« Reply #524 on: March 30, 2010, 06:18:19 PM »
dead kidneys

Sounds bad. Can she get a transplant?