Author Topic: Gloves Are Off Between US And China  (Read 1438 times)

SAMSON123

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Gloves Are Off Between US And China
« on: March 26, 2010, 06:52:32 PM »
i am always shocked to see america comment about another nations HUMAN RIGHTS when its own is a wretched as wretched can be. To even hear any so called US official talking about China or any nations history with its people makes my head spin. America has been a nation built on VIOLATIONS and therefore has no comment on what and how someone should be treated...especially when it has more people in its prison system than China, Russia and South Africa combined...

Gloves are off between US and China

Growing US pressure on China over internet censorship and human rights coincides with a string of other flashpoints
   
Leading Chinese human rights activists are urging western internet companies and service providers to follow Google's example in refusing to bow to Beijing's online censorship. Their intervention highlights how the high-profile tussle over freedom of information on the net is becoming part of a widening, multifaceted political confrontation between the US and China's increasingly assertive communist government.

Bob Fu, a former leader of the Tiananmen Square pro-democracy movement and founder of the US-based rights body, ChinaAid, applauded Google's decision to defy Beijing's censors. "They are on the right path. Freedom of information is a basic human right defined by international conventions. I encourage other companies like Microsoft and Yahoo to stand up and not sell their consciences for more renminbi in their pockets," Fu said today.

Fu's remarks came amid indications that the US secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, is keen to carry the fight to Beijing over what she sees as its indefensible internet censorship – although President Barack Obama is said to be less sure. An American strategy that focused tightly on upholding free speech could induce more western companies to refuse to play by China's rules. Getting its retaliation in first, the official People's Daily newspaper today accused Google of colluding with US government spy agencies.

Fu and another prominent activist, the Beijing-based human rights lawyer Li Baiguang, visited London and Brussels this week to draw the attention of policymakers and MPs to what they say are worsening human rights problems in China following the 2008 Olympics. Official attempts to restrict public information about individual cases, or to use the net to monitor political opponents, were part of a broader problem, they suggested.

Li said he had been detained and physically attacked on many occasions, and jailed three times, while pursuing cases involving abuses of human rights and religious freedom or unjust local government practices. He said it was entirely possible he would face arrest again on his return to China. "The public security people are always wanting to talk to me. We are forced to have tea together," he said with a smile.

Li highlighted the case of Alimujiang Yimiti, a Uighur Christian living in Xinjiang province, who was sentenced to 15 years in jail last year for "instigating separatism and revealing state secrets". Li said Alimujiang's actual offence, if it could be thus termed, was talking to visiting American Christians. Security officials had manufactured evidence and the conduct of his trial was illegal under Chinese law, Li said. Subsequent appeals to higher authorities in Beijing proved futile.

Fu drew attention to the case of Gao Zhisheng, which has received limited coverage inside China, owing to state control of the media. He said it was more than 400 days since Gao, the country's best-known human rights lawyer, a constant thorn in the side of the Chinese authorities and a Nobel peace prize nominee, had "disappeared" from his home in Shanxi province. There has been no sign of him since, raising fears about his safety.

Fu said Gao had been repeatedly arrested, imprisoned and tortured since 2005. He recounted one incident in which the lawyer said he was accused of being a traitor, beaten and electrocuted during a 53-day detention incurred after he wrote to a US congressman before the Olympics detailing human rights abuses. Fu said he had spoken to Gao days before he vanished in February last year and that the lawyer had expressed no intention of leaving home.

"Rumours and lies surround his absence," Fu said. "Silencing his voice is the only solution the Chinese leadership can come up with. They should concentrate instead on correcting an unjust system."

Li and Fu said western governments, churches and the public should put more pressure on China's leaders to abide by the rule of law, noting that when administrative lawsuits were set in train, the behaviour of state officials invariably improved. They also urged support for a public petition demanding Gao's release, which has so far been signed by 124,000 people in 180 countries.

Growing US pressure on China over human rights and freedom of information coincides with a string of other flashpoints in bilateral relations, ranging from Taiwan to Tibet to tyres. Moves are afoot in Congress to impose new tariffs on Chinese imports, while the US treasury may officially declare China to be a "currency manipulator" next month due to the low value of the yuan.

In another sign that the gloves are coming off, a report published in Washington this week blames unfair Chinese trade practices for 2.4m US job losses since 2001. Whether Chinese internet users will be allowed to read the report is open to question.
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Stormspirit

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Re: Gloves Are Off Between US And China
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2010, 07:12:04 PM »
Kind of a weak article, I didn't read anything about a political confrontation between the US and Chinese government, just some quotes from human rights activists and citation of an article from a private publication on the negative impact of trade with China.  This has been going on for years, what's new here?  Thanks for posting though, there's definitely going to be a big confrontation between china and the US at some point.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Gloves Are Off Between US And China
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2010, 07:13:56 PM »
i am always shocked to see america comment about another nations HUMAN RIGHTS when its own is a wretched as wretched can be. To even hear any so called US official talking about China or any nations history with its people makes my head spin. America has been a nation built on VIOLATIONS and therefore has no comment on what and how someone should be treated...especially when it has more people in its prison system than China, Russia and South Africa combined...

It's lip service for the sheeple.  If they really were serious, they'd be holding corporations accountable.  The dems are spewing a few harsh words to distract their base on an issue many left and right think is important.  The timing should be obvious.  And yea, the rest of what you said,.... our motives no doubt different.

Slapper

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Re: Gloves Are Off Between US And China
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2010, 04:14:23 AM »
Worry not fellow gringos. We've got the special corps getting ready for the fight:



Da shit's about to blow!

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: Gloves Are Off Between US And China
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2010, 05:21:43 AM »
WTF are you talking about Samson?

I saw a documentary the other day about a highway they're building in China, hundreds of people are being forcefully relocated...  Sad...  :'(
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Re: Gloves Are Off Between US And China
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2010, 05:32:57 PM »
WTF are you talking about Samson?

I saw a documentary the other day about a highway they're building in China, hundreds of people are being forcefully relocated...  Sad...  :'(

The same thing occurs in the USA. That's why Samson says the USA should be the last to comment.
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Fury

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Re: Gloves Are Off Between US And China
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2010, 05:38:27 PM »
Hahaha, trying to compare America's human rights record to China's. Hilarious.

SamsonEnterprises so desperate to get at America. This obsession has to be unhealthy.

SAMSON123

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Re: Gloves Are Off Between US And China
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2010, 05:48:02 PM »
WTF are you talking about Samson?

I saw a documentary the other day about a highway they're building in China, hundreds of people are being forcefully relocated...  Sad...  :'(

You should check out the imminent domain cases in america...talk about sad. You should review the foreclosures going on in america. Banks seizing homes EVEN WHEN THE HOMEOWNER CAN AND DOES PAY THEIR MORTGAGE. Seems the banks friends and buddies like the property so the bank therefore forecloses on it and takes the houses and give it to their "friends"...and Oh for those in California the cops can take your house if they "find" drugs on the property. You think there may be an incentive by the cops to throw a marijuana joint onto someones property and claim they found drugs, so they can take that nice home in NAPA VALLEY, San Fransisco, or any upscale area in California..... Get to know your country before condemning others.... I am just saying
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Eyeball Chambers

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Re: Gloves Are Off Between US And China
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2010, 05:52:43 PM »
The same thing occurs in the USA. That's why Samson says the USA should be the last to comment.

You and Samson can't see the huge difference in the way the United States uses Eminent Domain, and the way China forcefully removes people from their land without due compensation or anything else?

Here in the United State; if the use of Eminent Domain is unjust, citizens take it to court and win.  One Eminent Domain case just recently went to the Ohio supreme court and the Justices ruled unanimously in favor of the homeowners.

Try taking the Chinese government to court when they attempt to throw you off "your" land...  ;D

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Fury

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Re: Gloves Are Off Between US And China
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2010, 05:54:22 PM »
You and Samson can't see the huge difference in the way the United States uses Eminent Domain, and the way China forcefully removes people from their land without due compensation or anything else?

Here in the United State; if the use of Eminent Domain is unjust, citizens take it to court and win.  One Eminent Domain case just recently went to the Ohio supreme court and the Justices ruled unanimously in favor of the homeowners.

Try taking the Chinese government to court when they attempt to throw you off "your" land...  ;D



You realize that you're talking to the biggest dipshit on Getbig, right? SamsonEnterprises couldn't tell you the difference between "left" and "right", let alone the difference between eminent domain and China running a bulldozer over your house.

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: Gloves Are Off Between US And China
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2010, 05:54:53 PM »
You should check out the imminent domain cases in america...talk about sad. You should review the foreclosures going on in america. Banks seizing homes EVEN WHEN THE HOMEOWNER CAN AND DOES PAY THEIR MORTGAGE. Seems the banks friends and buddies like the property so the bank therefore forecloses on it and takes the houses and give it to their "friends"...and Oh for those in California the cops can take your house if they "find" drugs on the property. You think there may be an incentive by the cops to throw a marijuana joint onto someones property and claim they found drugs, so they can take that nice home in NAPA VALLEY, San Fransisco, or any upscale area in California..... Get to know your country before condemning others.... I am just saying

I don't know if you're familiar with contracts, but these homeowners signed one.  If something unjust really was going on these "homeowners" would challenge their banks and get their homes back.
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Eyeball Chambers

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Re: Gloves Are Off Between US And China
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2010, 05:55:39 PM »
You realize that you're talking to the biggest dipshit on Getbig, right? SamsonEnterprises couldn't tell you the difference between "left" and "right", let alone the difference between eminent domain and China running a bulldozer over your house.

haha....

WELL SAID!
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Fury

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Re: Gloves Are Off Between US And China
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2010, 05:58:01 PM »
Samson, you were already called out on that claim about people losing their houses while making their mortgage payments the first time you said it. I believe you were quickly proven to be a lying shill. Didn't learn your lesson, eh?

SAMSON123

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Re: Gloves Are Off Between US And China
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2010, 06:10:08 PM »
You and Samson can't see the huge difference in the way the United States uses Eminent Domain, and the way China forcefully removes people from their land without due compensation or anything else?

Here in the United State; if the use of Eminent Domain is unjust, citizens take it to court and win.  One Eminent Domain case just recently went to the Ohio supreme court and the Justices ruled unanimously in favor of the homeowners.

Try taking the Chinese government to court when they attempt to throw you off "your" land...  ;D



Did you somehow miss my post about the guy who BULLDOZED down his whole house over the bank REFUSING to accept his mortgage payments, because the bank said they can make more money off of the house through foreclosure than accepting the rest of his mortgage payments?????? The guy fought with the bank for TEN YEARS trying to straighten this out and in the end in disgust BULLDOZED THE HOUSE to keep the bank from taking it. You are TOTALLY UNAWARE about america and its attitude toward its own citizens. People don't even know their constitutional rights let alone the complicity of the courts in undermining the citizens of his rights at the time these rights are most being violated.


HAHAHAHAHAH...LOL at your belief that you can go to court and win a imminent appeal in america and LOL EVEN LOUDER at the you speaking as though you have been to China to know how their courts run and to say it is better than america. The Chinese have more respect for their own people than american will ever have....
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JohnC1908

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Re: Gloves Are Off Between US And China
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2010, 01:09:05 AM »
The last thing the U.S. needs to do is pick a fight with China. They are currently subsidizing our broke asses.

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Re: Gloves Are Off Between US And China
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2010, 03:35:22 AM »
You and Samson can't see the huge difference in the way the United States uses Eminent Domain, and the way China forcefully removes people from their land without due compensation or anything else?

Here in the United State; if the use of Eminent Domain is unjust, citizens take it to court and win.  One Eminent Domain case just recently went to the Ohio supreme court and the Justices ruled unanimously in favor of the homeowners.

Try taking the Chinese government to court when they attempt to throw you off "your" land...  ;D


I can't speak for Samson, but I have to agree with you in that I can't see a huge difference in the way the United States or China implement eminent domain. I'm not familiar with tthe Ohio case you cited, but I do remember a recent case in one of the Atlantic states that went to the Supreme Court, that didn't go so well for the homeowners. A real estate developer wanted the land to turn the area into a waterfront resort town, so they took the land so it could be given to a private developer to develop. sad & tragic.  Anytime you have the state effectively stealing from people it's not a good thing. Eminent domain laws have been used to the detriment, devastation and ruination of many neighbourhoods and communities throughout the US over the years.
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Eyeball Chambers

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Re: Gloves Are Off Between US And China
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2010, 12:27:56 PM »
I can't speak for Samson, but I have to agree with you in that I can't see a huge difference in the way the United States or China implement eminent domain. I'm not familiar with tthe Ohio case you cited, but I do remember a recent case in one of the Atlantic states that went to the Supreme Court, that didn't go so well for the homeowners. A real estate developer wanted the land to turn the area into a waterfront resort town, so they took the land so it could be given to a private developer to develop. sad & tragic.  Anytime you have the state effectively stealing from people it's not a good thing. Eminent domain laws have been used to the detriment, devastation and ruination of many neighbourhoods and communities throughout the US over the years.

I'm not a fan of eminent domain, but the difference is that in the United States a legal process is followed, and people are compensated, and it can always be challenge in court.

On the other hand, this is literally an example of the way the Chinese do it.





Quote
in one famous case, one family among 280 others at the location of a six-story shopping mall under construction at the location of a former "snack street" in Chongqing refused for two years to vacate a home their family had inhabited for three generations.[6] Developers cut their power and water, and excavated a 10-meter deep pit around their home.
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Re: Gloves Are Off Between US And China
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2010, 09:42:56 PM »
I'm not a fan of eminent domain, but the difference is that in the United States a legal process is followed, and people are compensated, and it can always be challenge in court.

On the other hand, this is literally an example of the way the Chinese do it.






In either country people are compensated, and disagreements can always be challenged in court.
There was a legal process used during the Spanish Inquisition as well. In a corrupt system, ...a legal process means nothing.

You seem to be confusing the actions of developers with those of the government.

In that pic you showed, that pit was not dug by the government, it was done by developers. big difference. I'm not refering to private developers. I'm refering to governments, and in the case of eminent domain I see no difference between the USA, or China. I certainly don't mean to imply they are the worst offenders 'cause there are plenty of other countries around the world some of whom can be considered staunch allies, who we know are rather brutal when it comes to seizing lands and bulldozing homes that have served families for multiple generations and tossing those families out... in many cases without any compensation at all, and often times with the families still inside the homes.
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