found out another good friend is NOT a CHRISTIAN!!!!

[WillGrant]

We're discussing the biceps vascularity and drug regimen of creating deities, piss off.

Settle down skinny 

[Captain Equipoise]

LOL, im not taking this post serious.

At this point he's just making shit up as he goes along, we'll call this taylor's logic

lol

[No Patience]

It's funny how people are 'allowed' to take liberties with 'god'. If I claimed to have my own experiences with god santa claus I'd be called insane. It's acceptable to have an invisible friend, as long as it's called god.

exactly

[Captain Equipoise]

It's funny how people are 'allowed' to take liberties with 'god'. If I claimed to have my own experiences with god santa claus I'd be called insane. It's acceptable to have an invisible friend, as long as it's called god.

Seriously and people that believe in extra terrestrials (ufo's, etc.) or claim to have been abducted are the ones called crazy and institutionalized... lol funny how that works eh?

If I told a group of christians about hanging out with my imaginary friend the easter bunny they'd think I was nuts, but they can talk with god and jesus all they want and be 'praised' for it.

[Necrosis]

do i need to change the second to last bold quote for you to get it? ok here:

energy can not exist, because the natural laws of the universe dictate that it can not be created.

Besides YG's post totally destroying this concept, it goes against reality. For one you can have no knowledge of the supernatural by virtue of it being supernatural, thus any comments you make about it are assumptions based on your opinion, nothing more. Also, energy exists, we know this, therefore "energy cannot exist" is a proposition that is the opposite of our observed reality. You are trying to find a way so that something has to be created, and that creator has to be your god. Step back and look at this logically, energy exists and cannot be created thus its essence is to exist as such. We need go no further, we don't have to add in a supernatural, all knowing, loving sentient being who lives in eternity blah blah. It complicates the matter and adds no information, the hypothesis is a bad one. You also exlude your god from the rules you have implied on the universe when they meet the criteria anyhow. You say something has to be eternal, energy fits that bill. But you then negate that and say that it has to be something supernatural for no reason, no logical reason at all. Your statements are completely irrational and actually go against reality. Something believing in god requires.

[Captain Equipoise]

Besides YG's post totally destroying this concept, it goes against reality. For one you can have no knowledge of the supernatural by virtue of it being supernatural, thus any comments you make about it are assumptions based on your opinion, nothing more. Also, energy exists, we know this, therefore "energy cannot exist" is a proposition that is the opposite of our observed reality. You are trying to find a way so that something has to be created, and that creator has to be your god. Step back and look at this logically, energy exists and cannot be created thus its essence is to exist as such. We need go no further, we don't have to add in a supernatural, all knowing, loving sentient being who lives in eternity blah blah. It complicates the matter and adds no information, the hypothesis is a bad one. You also exlude your god from the rules you have implied on the universe when they meet the criteria anyhow. You say something has to be eternal, energy fits that bill. But you then negate that and say that it has to be something supernatural for no reason, no logical reason at all. Your statements are completely irrational and actually go against reality. Something believing in god requires.

Agreed, plus it goes back to the concept of who made who (AC/DC lol) who created the supposed creator, it's not like if there is a god he appeared out of the blue in the universe one day and was bored so he started creating worlds and people..

[theonlyone]

From my real life experience atheists generally are the skinny and midget guys, while the big ones or fucking mafia guys, acknoledge (not believe as in Santa Claus) God. Those skinny small guys are spoilt kids with everything handed to them, everything. They just eat, sleep, shit and bullshit. Infact if that dialogue would have been in real life face to face it would have been very different and short and I don't mean brawl. Just from the real life experience.
 
 So no one has killed himself and come back with the full report as to how Enstein is doing, how the God looks like and what's about those places as hell and paradise? No one had balls?

 There is a more brutal experience for you to see and believe in God and I mean you will remain alive.......I'm sure you have not have balls so continue on to be hardcore behind the keyboard I'm talking to you Necrisis, YngiweRhoads and LoveMonkey idiots!

[phyxsius]

yeah dude but it doesn't change the fact that the god you worship seems like the anunaki reptilian humanoid gangster or something... he doesn't live up to it's own rules basicly, god is a madman...

this is real love if there ever was something like it.. being in touch with your inner self

I agree.. be in touch with yourself and you will find it.. but the thing is most people who are in touch of themselves thinking they must produce these feelings (love) themselves.. The Bible says when God created Adam, He breathe into him and alive he came.. Our souls are from God, our physical body are from the ground.. That's why at a funeral, you'll hear the words "From ashes to ashes, dust to dust".. When you rub your skin repeatedly, you'll see the ashes..

If we rely on our self effort to love, it will be a very inconsistent way to give love to others.. There will be days that we'll feel like crap and when those type of days come, people get hurt.. your partner get hurt.. Our love is fragile, poor and inconsistent.. God's love is eternal and fixed..

When God delivered Israel from Egypt (the Exodus), God showed His grace upon His people even though they murmured against him.. When they arrived at Mount Sinai, it was the people who boasted that whatever God instructs, we are able to meet them .. such self conscious and being independent from God.. Then God fulfilled their wish by giving them the 10 Commandments.. It was like God said to the people, if you want Me to bless you according to your works, here fulfill these 10 Commandments - The LAW.. The rest is history where you see men failed to live up the Law and sacrifices of animals have to be made to atone their sins.. 

So why we need to make animal sacrifices? Because God made a covenant between Him and the people... Covenant is not like a contract.. If you breach the contact, you are likely to be fined with an amount of money but if you break the covenant, you forfeit your life.. Blood must be spilled upon covenant.. One thing here is the animal sacrifice can only cover your sins, not necessarily take away your sins.. because animal does not surpass the level of the master.. Just like a slave cannot atone for his master.. God created the animals and put them under the authority of Adam and Eve..

That's why Jesus came as the last sacrifice for all our sins.. He is God who came as a man, His pure blood can wash away our sins forever and we are now together with God because of the shed blood of Jesus, the Son on God...

Jesus came without us asking for Saviour.. He came Himself and God the Father planned it.. Jesus is the personification of God's Grace.

I would write more but it'll take some time

[MCWAY]

Let me guess, conveniently enough you need to have 'faith' to see/feel/hear/witness the proof and evidence, right ?...

how about some solid fucking evidence!?! a polaroid !?!, a videotape, any physical evidence (don't answer with - the earth or some other b.s) that (a) god exists anywhere in the universe in any dimension (currently there are aproximately 11 - string theory)

What part of atheists-turned-Christians escaped that skull of yours?

In other words, these men (at one point) were talking the much the same mess, currently spewing from your big mouth. Yet, they found enough evidence to change their views.

[MCWAY]

I can't stop laughing.
Joking aside, if you enter logic into any religion, it fails every time.
People need "faith" because they really don't know wtf they're here.  Much like a rodent, it doesn't know either, but was never shown a bible.  Either way, it doesn't hurt to believe in any of it, so enjoy....well, unless you figure all the deaths due to religious wars.  Let's face it though, that's just entertainment for the rest of us, who aren't religious...win win.

Plenty!!

One, who said that God has a long white beard? That is but more foolishness and a mere strawman, easily dismantled.

Intelligent men don't believe in God.....except (and this list is hardly exhaustive):

- The late Dr. D. James Kennedy (named one of the Most Oustanding Intellectuals of the 20th century by Cambridge)
- Dr. Ben Carson, John Hopkins Neuosurgery (first to successfully separate conjoined twins)
- RADM (Ret) Barry C. Black, Senate Chaplian, author of From the Hood to the Hill
- The late Dr. Bruce Metzger, Professor Emeritus, Princeton Theological Seminary
- Louis Pasteur, developer of vaccines and the process that makes milk products safe to consume

As for not returning calls, there are plenty of Christians here and elsewhere that can pretty much put that quip to rest.

Lack of evidence supporting his existence? You would think that, with all the time atheists have been embarassed making this stupid claims (especially when it relates to Biblical events), they would learn to keep their mouths shut with this one (Hey, Loco, you want this one?  ).

The mere fact that atheists tend to get bent out of shape, all over someone who supposedly doesn't exist, would suggest that they're the ones who could use some couch time, not their Christian counterparts.

[#1 Klaus fan]

As if titles meant anything in real world.

[YngiweRhoads]

Intelligent men don't believe in God

This statement is correct.

For the most part no, they don't. You're citing a very small minority who accept faith over reason.

http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/news/file002.html

Our latest survey finds that, among the top natural scientists, disbelief is greater than ever — almost total.

Leuba attributed the higher level of disbelief and doubt among "greater" scientists to their "superior knowledge, understanding, and experience"

This entire line of reasoning is a non-sequitur. You're implying that because someone else other yourself has faith, it then validates your faith.

Whatever people coose to believe doesn't change reality, no matter how much they wish it to be so. For those that do believe, it's not faith due to evidence, but due to faith in spite of the evidence. Just a silly, illogical, line of reasoning.


You cited proof for god* in a previous post in this thread but have yet to provide any corroborating evidence to support your assertion.

You then claimed the law of conservation of energy was based on speculation and have, again, failed to provide any evidence to support your claim.



*For arguments sake we'll assume you mean 'god' as inferred by the new testament.

[theonlyone]

 Intelligent men don't believe in GOD? It's a matter of acceptance and acknolegment of GOD, not of believing, don't let words fool you. None - believer is like a cockroach who has no idea of GOD.

[MCWAY]

This statement is correct.

For the most part no, they don't. You're citing a very small minority who accept faith over reason.

http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/news/file002.html

It isn't an issue of faith over "reason". And, as stated earlier, that list is hardly exhaustive. The claim was made that intelligent people don't believe in God, which is patently false. Intelligent people aren't just in scientific arenas. There are in theology, military, business, agriculture, and all other walks of life.

You cited proof for god* in a previous post in this thread yet have yet to provide any corroborating evidence to support your assertion.

The point I made was that your claim of there being no evidence is a false one, as has been demonstrated by men (who were once atheists but are now Christians. They apparently found sufficient evidence to change their minds. And others, like me, have seen such that have re-affirmed belief in God.

If you want to check the works of those two man (Strobel or McDowell, or others like Kennedy), be my guest. Whether what they found is sufficient enough for you is your own affair. But, that's hardly an indicator that, as you claimed, there is NO evidence for the existence of God.

You then claimed the law of conservation of energy was based on speculation and have, again, failed to provide any evidence to support your claim.

No!! What I said was that the idea that energy cannot be created nor destroyed was speculated. I qualified that by stating that man is incapable of creating or destroying energy. That does NOT neccesitate that energy is uncreatable or indestructible.

And, that led to my other point (and somewhat rhetorical question) as to why atheists seem to have a problem with Christians suggesting that Someone has always existed but have no problem with the concept of something always existing.

[theonlyone]

 Leuba attributed the higher level of disbelief and doubt among "greater" scientists to their "superior knowledge, understanding, and experience"

 All words and whore attention bitching...How their superior knowledge, understanding and experience can help in understanding as to what happens afterdeath

[#1 Klaus fan]

Leuba attributed the higher level of disbelief and doubt among "greater" scientists to their "superior knowledge, understanding, and experience"

 All words and whore attention bitching...How their superior knowledge, understanding and experience can help in understanding as to what happens afterdeath

Why you think something happens in afterlife? Why not now.

[theonlyone]

Why you think something happens in afterlife? Why not now.

 Klaus I may do upset you but we all die, sooner or later. That's what all religions come down to - afterlife. IF you believe that nothing happens in afterlife, that's fine, but it doesn't prove anything in general scheme of things. To find out you have to die and return back with the full report for the humanity.

[YngiweRhoads]

And, as stated earlier, that list is hardly exhaustive. The claim was made that intelligent people don't believe in God, which is patently false. Intelligent people aren't just in scientific arenas. There are in theology, military, business, agriculture, and all other walks of life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence

They apparently found sufficient evidence to change their minds. And others, like me, have seen such that have re-affirmed belief in God.

Read my reference to this in the previous post.

If you want to check the works of those two man (Strobel or McDowell, or others like Kennedy), be my guest. Whether what they found is sufficient enough for you is your own affair. But, that's hardly an indicator that, as you claimed, there is NO evidence for the existence of God.

Unless they have peer reviewed hypothesis/studies/experiments that are accepted by the scientific community as valid theories, then their findings are still just hypotheses (speculation) and nothing more. There is no direct evidence for the existence for god accepted in science. I have yet to see any scientific journal report any evidence for any supernatural entities.

That does NOT neccesitate that energy is uncreatable or indestructible.

A non-sequitur. It does necessitate this, by definition. You're ignoring the natural world and imposing a supernatural element by implying this. You are implying that anything our senses detect is false by claiming  this imperative. This would invalidate all human knowledge and reasoning.

And, that led to my other point (and somewhat rhetorical question) as to why atheists seem to have a problem with Christians suggesting that Someone has always existed but have no problem with the concept of something always existing.

I already answered this, to which you provide nothing in the way of rebuttal. There is proof for the for the latter and none for the former. Provide proofs which can be tested and there will be no problem with accepting a supernatural entity. Reason requires proof.

[theonlyone]

 YngiweRhoads you may have already read all wikipedia and all scientific journals but it will not help you to detect GOD. You will find out soon in around 1 min - 50 years in front. You may be quite a good guy around but shut your big mouth and don't say that there is no god unless you have solid scientific evidence palaroid or video tape with no God. Ok cockroach

[theonlyone]

For the atheists. Any solid scientific evidence that there is no God. I mean a palaroid photo or a videotape where it would have been obvious God isn't there.

[tbombz]

Energy exists without being created. It's the nature of the universe.

Your statement implies the nature of the universe to be 'nothing' instead of 'something' as a basis for claiming the necessity of a supernatural creator. ie. Energy can't be created without a supernatural entity

Entropy shows 'nothing' is simply more unstable than 'something' meaning 'something' must exist. This necessitates that 'something' is the nature of the universe rather than 'nothing' without the need for a supernatural creator.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy

you know absolutely nothing abut the nature of the universe, you only know what you observe. we observe an indestructable and uncreatable energy. you assume that it always was, i take it as evidence that who ever did create it had powers beyond ours.  or MAYBE God takes the shape of energy in our physical realm?


this whole discussion we have been debating logic behind proof of God. I would point out thjat never ONCE did any atheist try to provide proof that there was NOT a God.. the closest they came was trying to provide proof that he wasnt necessary. but even in that their argument is no better than the argument than can be made for his necessity.


out of this, we know that God is not a matter of logic, but of faith. and that logic is not a source of knowledge 

logic can only provide probability of truth and justify trivial claims wich are self evident (triangle has three sides, bear is an animal, etc)


all i hope is that whoever read this remembers it so maybe one day their minds will take notice subconsciously and then their minds can explode with truth


God is fun!!!  God is good, God is pleasure, God is joy, God is love, God is happyness, God is peace, God is serenity. 

[#1 Klaus fan]

For the atheists. Any solid scientific evidence that there is no God. I mean a palaroid photo or a videotape where it would have been obvious God isn't there.

I wouldn't use that argument if I were you. It will bit you in the ass.

[theonlyone]

I wouldn't use that argument if I were you. It will bit you in the ass.

no

[theonlyone]

 Tbombz that's where I disagree with u

 God is not a matter of faith but a matter of acknolegment and acceptence.
God isn't fun nor good, nor pleasure nor joy nor love nor happyness, nor peace, nor is serenity.
You have to be a God to judge between the success and failure. You're actually a no body to think that what he is.
 But where we are together is that we accept the fact that there is a GOD

 For the atheists. Any solid scientific evidence that there is no God. I mean a palaroid photo or a videotape where it would have been obvious God isn't there.

[Captain Equipoise]

For the atheists. Any solid scientific evidence that there is no God. I mean a palaroid photo or a videotape where it would have been obvious God isn't there.

OMG, you are truly beyond retarded... why don't you prove to me your god exists ?!!? and don't say the trees and grass outside, that's called nature and is part of our planet's evolutionary state.

You want video disproving a god !?!? here you go
there's thousands more just like it.. maybe your god of peace and love and understanding is just a cold blooded killer or believe in murder over saving the people he supposedly created.. ?