Are bodybuilders "athletes"?

[LurkyLurker]

How many "true athletes" in any given sport work a regular job along with their chosen sport?

A lot actually. The vast majority of Olympic athletes and even Olympic hopefuls, all of whom have the athletic abilities of your average MLBer and beyond, don't earn a penny from their sports. A number of pro boxers and MMA fighters, except for the most elite, work day jobs. I knew a couple of NFL prospects who were truer athletes than anyone I've met, but could only get walk on tryouts with a couple of NFL teams and so had to work at other jobs for a living.

It's the rare athlete who earns a living at his sport.

[noworries]

what do the drugs have to do with the physical exertion on stage?

E

Wow sometimes I wonder about you.  Have you heard of diruetics.  Ask Momo and Dillet and many others.  That IS a drug.

[Earl1972]

How many "true athletes" in any given sport work a regular job along with their chosen sport?

when there is hardly any demand or little fan support, you can't pay them the big bucks

lower level pro boxers work a day job too

E

[Earl1972]

Wow sometimes I wonder about you.  Have you heard of diruetics.  Ask Momo and Dillet and many others.  That IS a drug.

my point is you don't need drugs to have a good posing routine on stage, just like you don't need drugs to swing a bat or shoot a basketball

E

[Oldschool Flip]

A lot actually. The vast majority of Olympic athletes and even Olympic hopefuls, all of whom have the athletic abilities of your average MLBer and beyond, don't earn a penny from their sports. A number of pro boxers and MMA fighters, except for the most elite, work day jobs. I knew a couple of NFL prospects who were truer athletes than anyone I've met, but could only get walk on tryouts with a couple of NFL teams and so had to work at other jobs for a living.

It's the rare athlete who earns a living at his sport.

I think the Olympic athletes and hopefuls are in the position of not earning because until recently, you had to be an amateur and couldn't be sponsored or paid by endorsements. Also remember the Olympics are every 4 years so it would be understandable that these athletes would probably have to have a supplemental income to continue with their training and just regular living. They are the exception.

In MMA and pro boxing there is no criteria to becoming a pro. You considered an amateur until you draw enough interest from promoters to pay you big money. That's when you become a pro.

As for NFL prospects, that's exactly what they are until picked up by a pro team. So they are good athletes (better that the average joe on the street), but not pro athletes.

[Oldschool Flip]

when there is hardly any demand or little fan support, you can't pay them the big bucks

lower level pro boxers work a day job too

E

There is no criteria to become a pro boxer. A boxer that can't win doesn't make money.

[pellius]

A lot actually. The vast majority of Olympic athletes and even Olympic hopefuls, all of whom have the athletic abilities of your average MLBer and beyond, don't earn a penny from their sports. A number of pro boxers and MMA fighters, except for the most elite, work day jobs. I knew a couple of NFL prospects who were truer athletes than anyone I've met, but could only get walk on tryouts with a couple of NFL teams and so had to work at other jobs for a living.

It's the rare athlete who earns a living at his sport.

This is true and includes most amateur athletes and it's not easy. When I was seriously competing in Jiu-Jitsu I get up early to train before work and then again after work 5-6 days a week. That was pretty much my whole life - work and train. And I didn't get paid. In fact, I had to pay for the travel and to enter the tournaments. And I definitely considered myself an athlete and as committed as any pro.

[MindSpin]

This is true and includes most amateur athletes and it's not easy. When I was seriously competing in Jiu-Jitsu I get up early to train before work and then again after work 5-6 days a week. That was pretty much my whole life - work and train. And I didn't get paid. In fact, I had to pay for the travel and to enter the tournaments. And I definitely considered myself an athlete and as committed as any pro.

Hi Pellius.  Who did you train under?  Do you have an clips from your tournaments?

[Cleanest Natural]

This is true and includes most amateur athletes and it's not easy. When I was seriously competing in Jiu-Jitsu I get up early to train before work and then again after work 5-6 days a week. That was pretty much my whole life - work and train. And I didn't get paid. In fact, I had to pay for the travel and to enter the tournaments. And I definitely considered myself an athlete and as committed as any pro.

you might work hard and e super commited

but you lack any talnt whatsoever

in fact...I have never been in a cage and whould whoop your sorry old arse easily

bitch

[pellius]

Hi Pellius.  Who did you train under?  Do you have an clips from your tournaments?

I started in 1991 when Rorion open up his academy in Torrance, CA. Back then it was Rorion, Royce, Royler and Rickson. My first lesson was with Royce and I would train with him once a week and Royler once a week and then the group class. Private lessons were only $20 a session back in those days. When Royler went back to Brasil and Rickson left to start his own school in West LA on Pico Bl. I moved over to Rickson's school as I didn't really like Royce at the time (that changed over the years as he matured). There I would take an hour private with Rickson once a week and the group class the rest of the week.

When Rickson started competing more in Japan and becoming more in demand for seminars and private lessons he didn't teach as much. I was living in Redondo Beach at the time and just about a half mile away their cousins, the Machado's, had a school. It was Rigan, Carlos, Jean-Jacques, Roger and John. All of them were top level Black Belts whereas at Rickson's school there was only Luis Heredia (Limao) who was still a Brown Belt. When Chuck Norris got that show in Texas he took Carlos with him as Chuck loved Jiu-Jitsu wanted to keep training and helped Carlos set up an academy in Texas.

I got tired of training with the gi because so many of the techniques are pretty sophisticated and required a lot of time drilling and about 85% of it was useless in a fight unless your opponent and you happen to be wearing a gi. I moved to rAw later renamed the R1 Training Center in El Segundo, CA. It was more of an MMA gym so you didn't wear a gi and it was run by Frank Trigg and Rico Chiapparelli.

The early days, before the sport took off, were the best times of my life. Just a little obscure sub-culture doing something out of sheer love of the sport. Those were the days of the underground, closed door bare knuckle fights.

Rickson is everything that people say he is and  more. But it is Renzo that's the warrior of the family. It pains me to say that. If Rickson took the fight with Sakuraba when Saku was in his prime and the first to start tooling the Gracie's he would have been a legend. But he didn't. Something I'll never understand. Helio would have stepped up. That's for sure. That's for damn sure.

[FREAKgeek]

That's pretty cool. How far have you come with jiu jitsu?

[pellius]

you might work hard and e super commited

but you lack any talnt whatsoever

in fact...I have never been in a cage and whould whoop your sorry old arse easily

bitch

LOL! Of course you would -- behind a computer. But if there was really a chance that we would meet you would do another Okami and pussy out.

Dude, don't you have any shame, pride and honor at all? You've already blatantly exposed yourself as a coward when you made that bold challenge to Okami and when he actually accepted and was prepared to meet you the excuses came pouring out. And still you attack him when you should be silent and humble as you so dishonored and disgraced yourself publicly.

Aren't you even the least bit embarrassed by that? Not even just a little? To back down to a challenge YOU made? And still you mouth off? Really Sev, what is wrong with you? Maybe it's just a cultural thing when a country had to live so long under the Communist boot that you're still just a broken people with no will, no pride, no shame.

[MindSpin]

I started in 1991 when Rorion open up his academy in Torrance, CA. Back then it was Rorion, Royce, Royler and Rickson. My first lesson was with Royce and I would train with him once a week and Royler once a week and then the group class. Private lessons were only $20 a session back in those days. When Royler went back to Brasil and Rickson left to start his own school in West LA on Pico Bl. I moved over to Rickson's school as I didn't really like Royce at the time (that changed over the years as he matured). There I would take an hour private with Rickson once a week and the group class the rest of the week.

When Rickson started competing more in Japan and becoming more in demand for seminars and private lessons he didn't teach as much. I was living in Redondo Beach at the time and just about a half mile away their cousins, the Machado's, had a school. It was Rigan, Carlos, Jean-Jacques, Roger and John. All of them were top level Black Belts whereas at Rickson's school there was only Luis Heredia (Limao) who was still a Brown Belt. When Chuck Norris got that show in Texas he took Carlos with him as Chuck loved Jiu-Jitsu wanted to keep training and helped Carlos set up an academy in Texas.

I got tired of training with the gi because so many of the techniques are pretty sophisticated and required a lot of time drilling and about 85% of it was useless in a fight unless your opponent and you happen to be wearing a gi. I moved to rAw later renamed the R1 Training Center in El Segundo, CA. It was more of an MMA gym so you didn't wear a gi and it was run by Frank Trigg and Rico Chiapparelli.

The early days, before the sport took off, were the best times of my life. Just a little obscure sub-culture doing something out of sheer love of the sport. Those were the days of the underground, closed door bare knuckle fights.

Rickson is everything that people say he is and  more. But it is Renzo that's the warrior of the family. It pains me to say that. If Rickson took the fight with Sakuraba when Saku was in his prime and the first to start tooling the Gracie's he would have been a legend. But he didn't. Something I'll never understand. Helio would have stepped up. That's for sure. That's for damn sure.

That's awesome.  In 1991 I had just graduated high school and wasted four years of my life in competitive in competitive bbing.  Wish I had discovered BJJ back then.  

[The Showstoppa]

That's awesome.  In 1991 I had just graduated high school and wasted four years of my life in competitive in competitive bbing.  Wish I had discovered BJJ  g4p back then.  

Fixed it for you bro. 

[Oldschool Flip]

This is true and includes most amateur athletes and it's not easy. When I was seriously competing in Jiu-Jitsu I get up early to train before work and then again after work 5-6 days a week. That was pretty much my whole life - work and train. And I didn't get paid. In fact, I had to pay for the travel and to enter the tournaments. And I definitely considered myself an athlete and as committed as any pro.

Not to say that what you do as an individual isn't impressive to the average guy, but all pros went through the same thing. If you were as good and competitive as they were, and truly worked and trained as hard, then your living would be made from it. That's the difference between amateurs and pros in almost all sports. Pros make money at the sport.

[pellius]

That's awesome.  In 1991 I had just graduated high school and wasted four years of my life in competitive in competitive bbing.  Wish I had discovered BJJ back then.  

Well, unless you lived in the LA area there wasn't anywhere to train. I was just lucky because I lived in Torrance where the Gracie's decided to take root. Rorion's family and Rickson's family were all within walking distance to where I lived.

If I knew then how much the sport would have grown and changed the world I would have taken more pics. This was taken in front of their house in Torrance. Lot of soon to be world champs in this shot.

* Cue the homos on this board to make fun of their bodies *

[pellius]

Not to say that what you do as an individual isn't impressive to the average guy, but all pros went through the same thing. If you were as good and competitive as they were, and truly worked and trained as hard, then your living would be made from it. That's the difference between amateurs and pros in almost all sports. Pros make money at the sport.

100% true.

The point I wanted to make is that you don't have to make money from a sport to be considered an athlete. And it does pain me that I committed myself so much to something but never became world class. But no boo-hoos from me. I'm in the majority. Very few get to the top of the top. But you never know if you don't try but for me I still would have done it all over again because of my love of the combat sports. I may not have gotten a single penny or even a lot of trophies but it shaped me as a human being and as a man. I know I don't show it much here but it has made me a better person and I believe that we will all have our day of judgment where we stand before God. And he isn't going to care if I had a gold medal, lots of money or even if people liked me. He will look into my heart and soul.

I know most on this board will laugh at things like that. To believe in something greater than yourself. But I don't care. I won't have to answer to them on my death bed.

[noworries]

Well, unless you lived in the LA area there wasn't anywhere to train. I was just lucky because I lived in Torrance where the Gracie's decided to take root. Rorion's family and Rickson's family were all within walking distance to where I lived.

If I knew then how much the sport would have grown and changed the world I would have taken more pics. This was taken in front of their house in Torrance. Lot of soon to be world champs in this shot.

* Cue the homos on this board to make fun of their bodies *

Is that the house up off of Anza I think and then you make a left a few street up.  By South High.  I can't tell.  That is where we trained in 86' in Rorian's garage.  Then the girls would fix us that funny food they ate.  Everything was bananas.  I kind of wish I took it more serious.  I know they wished I did too.  Look at little Royce in the background.  And yep it was $20 an hour for one on one training.  Did they have you wear different clothes at times when you were with them

[pellius]

Is that the house up off of Anza I think and then you make a left a few street up.  By South High.  I can't tell.  That is where we trained in 86' in Rorian's garage.  Then the girls would fix us that funny food they ate.  Everything was bananas.  I kind of wish I took it more serious.  I know they wished I did too.  Look at little Royce in the background.  And yep it was $20 an hour for one on one training.  Did they have you wear different clothes at times when you were with them

You are correct. Right off Anza. I was on Prospect and Torrance Bl right across from the 7-11 and Chief Auto parts. Just a couple of blocks walk to the beach. When we trained we always wore a gi. The kids are Ryron, Rener and little Ralek (with Renzo).

I didn't really believe in their diet. When Rigan Machado first came to the US he was so skinny and he and Jean-Jacques could pass as twins. When he started to eat more meat he just blew up. And the guy never lifted weights. In fact, he was the laziest world class athlete I ever knew. He was undefeated except for his one loss against his cousin, Rickson. Rigan really could have been a terror if he had the heart and drive.

[MindSpin]

Is that your pic?  You're one scary looking dude.

[Earl1972]

That's awesome.  In 1991 I had just graduated high school and wasted four years of my life in competitive in competitive bbing.  Wish I had discovered BJJ back then.  

then what forum would you use to talk about mma?

an mma forum


E

[Alexander D]

I think it's pretty clear that bodybuilders are nothing more than male beauty pageant contestants...

Yes they have to train hard, extreme diet, take big amounts of drugs and such, and perhaps one could argue that they have to train harder and diet cleaner than a professional athlete like a football player… but saying that bodybuilding is a SPORT, is pretty silly and I disagree that it is.

I think an athlete is someone that plays a sport… and since I do not think that bodybuilding is a SPORT, I therefore do not think being a bodybuilder makes you an athlete.

So, are you an athlete because you lift weights? Depends who you talk to I guess… I find semantic debates like this pretty silly… but that’s my 2 cents.


-A DUB

[Oldschool Flip]

So, are you an athlete because you lift weights? Depends who you talk to I guess… I find semantic debates like this pretty silly… but that’s my 2 cents.

There are many occupations that require lifting heavy weight and some of that all day lifting totals in lots of poundages. Iron workers, baling hay, loaders at docks, etc. are great workers but aren't considered athletes. I would consider a competitive logger, ballroom dancer, or a great skateboarder much more of an athlete than a bodybuilder.

[Earl1972]

There are many occupations that require lifting heavy weight and some of that all day lifting totals in lots of poundages. Iron workers, baling hay, loaders at docks, etc. are great workers but aren't considered athletes. I would consider a competitive logger, ballroom dancer, or a great skateboarder much more of an athlete than a bodybuilder.

all of those guys work harder than most athletes

E

[Cleanest Natural]

all of those guys work harder than most athletes

E

u don't know shit