Author Topic: Judge: Natl Day Of Prayer Unconstitutional  (Read 5162 times)

The True Adonis

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Re: Judge: Natl Day Of Prayer Unconstitutional
« Reply #50 on: April 21, 2010, 11:48:55 PM »
OMFFGGG

I just realized that Beach Bum is actually citing sites that are advocating and discussing "The End Times Prophecy".


No wonder why they are so factually incorrect. 

Beach Bum, please cite credible sources. 

The True Adonis

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Re: Judge: Natl Day Of Prayer Unconstitutional
« Reply #51 on: April 21, 2010, 11:53:52 PM »

Colossus_500

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Re: Judge: Natl Day Of Prayer Unconstitutional
« Reply #52 on: April 22, 2010, 05:58:55 AM »
Part 1


Part 2


Part 3


Part 4


Part 5

MCWAY

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Re: Judge: Natl Day Of Prayer Unconstitutional
« Reply #53 on: April 22, 2010, 06:26:05 AM »
Again you are not following along. 

Your site is claiming that 33 presidents have signed Proclimations for a National Day of Prayer".

It is also claiming

That there have been 57 Proclamations for "National Prayer Day" starting in 1952-2009

If 33 Presidents have signed a Proclamation for National Prayer Day, this is in direct conflict with 57 Proclamations from 1952-2009 which your article also claims.

You see 33 Presidents worth of Presidential terms add up to A LOT more than years than the 57 years which is the timespan from 1952-2009.

This is a direct contradiction and/or a gross error.

NOT if certain presidents signed MULTIPLE proclamations.

loco

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Re: Judge: Natl Day Of Prayer Unconstitutional
« Reply #54 on: April 22, 2010, 06:36:29 AM »
Please delete or amend your above post to reflect the FACTS.


The problem with the above is that it isn't true. March 4, 1805 was the date of Jefferson's Second Inaugural Address and there is no such prayer included in it. This "prayer" shows up on a number of religious web sites on line, and is either attributed to Thomas Jefferson, with no other information or as above "Thomas Jefferson, March 4, 1805". Nowhere is there a complete valid cite given. You can find his Second Inaugural Address at:
http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=JefAddr.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=7&division=div1

Thomas Jefferson, Second Inaugural Address, Monday, March 4, 1805


Dang Adonis, go easy on the large font and colors already.  Does it mean you are frustrated, angry and shouting? 

Dos Equis

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Re: Judge: Natl Day Of Prayer Unconstitutional
« Reply #55 on: April 22, 2010, 11:38:56 AM »
NOT if certain presidents signed MULTIPLE proclamations.

I tried to explain that to him. 

Dos Equis

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Re: Judge: Natl Day Of Prayer Unconstitutional
« Reply #56 on: April 22, 2010, 11:39:37 AM »
OMFFGGG

I just realized that Beach Bum is actually citing sites that are advocating and discussing "The End Times Prophecy".


No wonder why they are so factually incorrect. 

Beach Bum, please cite credible sources. 

 ::)

The True Adonis

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Re: Judge: Natl Day Of Prayer Unconstitutional
« Reply #57 on: April 22, 2010, 11:47:31 AM »
I tried to explain that to him. 
Again thats not the issue at all.

Please reread:

Again you are not following along. 

Your site is claiming that 33 presidents have signed Proclimations for a National Day of Prayer".

It is also claiming

That there have been 57 Proclamations for "National Prayer Day" starting in 1952-2009

If 33 Presidents have signed a Proclamation for National Prayer Day, this is in direct conflict with 57 Proclamations from 1952-2009 which your article also claims.

You see 33 Presidents worth of Presidential terms add up to A LOT more than years than the 57 years which is the timespan from 1952-2009.

This is a direct contradiction and/or a gross error.

BM OUT

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Re: Judge: Natl Day Of Prayer Unconstitutional
« Reply #58 on: April 22, 2010, 12:33:35 PM »
I dont understand why any Christian would want this.You need the filthy government to have a day to tell you to pray.Are you kidding me?If the government told me to pray that day,Id make it a point not to pray that day.I know there are laws or rules or proclamations that must or should be followed but I wouldnt follow a day the stupid innept wicked government tells me to pray on.

Just like steroids,during the stupid cogressional hearings on steroids I made sure to up my doseage in honor of little idiots like Steven Lynch,Henry Waxman and the rest of those morons.Just as I will add three times as much salt to my food now and keep my house at 73 in the winter.

The True Adonis

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Re: Judge: Natl Day Of Prayer Unconstitutional
« Reply #59 on: April 22, 2010, 12:48:00 PM »
I dont understand why any Christian would want this.You need the filthy government to have a day to tell you to pray.Are you kidding me?If the government told me to pray that day,Id make it a point not to pray that day.I know there are laws or rules or proclamations that must or should be followed but I wouldnt follow a day the stupid innept wicked government tells me to pray on.

Just like steroids,during the stupid cogressional hearings on steroids I made sure to up my doseage in honor of little idiots like Steven Lynch,Henry Waxman and the rest of those morons.Just as I will add three times as much salt to my food now and keep my house at 73 in the winter.
I`m with you on this one Billy.  Its beyond me why anyone would want the Government to put a rubber stamp on Religion or direct them to Religious practice on a designated day.  

Dos Equis

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Re: Judge: Natl Day Of Prayer Unconstitutional
« Reply #60 on: April 22, 2010, 01:12:19 PM »
Again thats not the issue at all.

Please reread:

Again you are not following along. 

Your site is claiming that 33 presidents have signed Proclimations for a National Day of Prayer".

It is also claiming

That there have been 57 Proclamations for "National Prayer Day" starting in 1952-2009

If 33 Presidents have signed a Proclamation for National Prayer Day, this is in direct conflict with 57 Proclamations from 1952-2009 which your article also claims.

You see 33 Presidents worth of Presidential terms add up to A LOT more than years than the 57 years which is the timespan from 1952-2009.

This is a direct contradiction and/or a gross error.

Again, what you fail to understand and what both McWay and I both tried to explain, is that presidents likely issued multiple proclamations during their presidency.  These presidents had terms from between 2 and 8 years. 

Also, you should watch the clips Colossus posted (I watched the first one).  Barton is an outstanding historian.  He can help you get a better understanding of history and the role prayer and religion played in the development of the country. 

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: Judge: Natl Day Of Prayer Unconstitutional
« Reply #61 on: April 22, 2010, 01:13:06 PM »
Score one for the paranoid anti-religious extremists.  At least for now.   

Judge: Natl Day Of Prayer Unconstitutional
April 15, 2010 - 4:49 PM | by: Mike Levine

The National Day of Prayer, honored in the United States for more than a half-century, is unconstitutional, a federal judge in Wisconsin has ruled.

In a 66-page opinion issued Thursday, U.S. District Judge Barbara Crabb said the holiday violates the "establishment clause" of the First Amendment, which creates a separation of church and state.

"I understand that many may disagree with that conclusion and some may even view it as a criticism of prayer or those who pray," Crabb said in her opinion. "That is unfortunate. A determination that the government may not endorse a religious message is not a determination that the message itself is harmful, unimportant or undeserving of dissemination."

The opinion comes in a case filed by the Freedom From Religion Foundation, a Wisconsin-based group of self-described "atheists" and "agnostics."

Crabb said her ruling is based on "relevant case law," and it does not prevent religious groups from organizing prayer services or prevent the President from discussing his views on prayer.

"The only issue decided in this case is that the federal government may not endorse prayer in a statute," Crabb said.

The Justice Department would not say whether it expects to appeal Crabb's ruling.

"We are reviewing the court's decision," a Justice Department spokesman said.

Within hours of the ruling, the ranking Republican on the House Judiciary Committee urged the Justice Department to "immediately" file an appeal.

"The decision undermines the values of religious freedom that America was founded upon," Rep. Lamar Smith, R-Tex., said in a statement. "What’s next?  Declaring the federal holiday for Christmas unconstitutional?"

Crabb said the ruling would not have any effect until any appeals are exhausted.

She insisted her ruling was not a judgment on the value of prayer.

"No one can doubt the important role that prayer plays in the spiritual life of a believer," Crabb said in her opinion. "In the best of times, people may pray as a way of expressing joy and thanks; during times of grief, many find that prayer provides comfort. Others may pray to give praise, seek forgiveness, ask for guidance or find the truth. ... However, recognizing the importance of prayer to many people does not mean that the government may enact a statute in support of it, any more than the government may encourage citizens to fast during the month of Ramadan, attend a synagogue, purify themselves in a sweat lodge or practice rune magic."

The National Day of Prayer was first established by Congress in 1952, with a more specific date for the holiday set in 1988. It is now observed on the first Thursday in May.

Smith said he can "assure" Americans that "Congress will do everything in its power to protect the National Day of Prayer."

On the holiday last year, President Obama issued a statement saying Americans have always "come together in moments of great challenge and uncertainty to humble themselves in prayer."

"In 1775, as the Continental Congress began the task of forging a new Nation, colonists were asked to observe a day of quiet humiliation and prayer," the statement said. "Almost a century later, as the flames of the Civil War burned from north to south, President Lincoln and the Congress once again asked the American people to pray as the fate of their Nation hung in the balance."

http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/04/15/judge-natl-day-of-prayer-unconstitutional/

Who really gives a shit is the bigger question...

What a monumental ruling...  ::)
S

Dos Equis

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Re: Judge: Natl Day Of Prayer Unconstitutional
« Reply #62 on: April 22, 2010, 01:26:12 PM »
Who really gives a shit is the bigger question...

What a monumental ruling...  ::)

A bipartisan majority in Congress and milliions of Americans. 

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: Judge: Natl Day Of Prayer Unconstitutional
« Reply #63 on: April 22, 2010, 01:27:24 PM »
A bipartisan majority in Congress and milliions of Americans. 

Sadly, you're absolutely right... 
S

The True Adonis

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Re: Judge: Natl Day Of Prayer Unconstitutional
« Reply #64 on: April 22, 2010, 01:30:18 PM »
Again, what you fail to understand and what both McWay and I both tried to explain, is that presidents likely issued multiple proclamations during their presidency.  These presidents had terms from between 2 and 8 years.  

Also, you should watch the clips Colossus posted (I watched the first one).  Barton is an outstanding historian.  He can help you get a better understanding of history and the role prayer and religion played in the development of the country.  

Oh brother I don`t know what more I can do to explain.  I will post this one more time. PAY attention-

Please reread:

Again you are not following along.  

Your site is claiming that 33 presidents have signed Proclimations for a National Day of Prayer".

It is also claiming

That there have been 57 Proclamations for "National Prayer Day" starting in 1952-2009

If 33 Presidents have signed a Proclamation for National Prayer Day, this is in direct conflict with 57 Proclamations from 1952-2009 which your article also claims.

You see 33 Presidents worth of Presidential terms add up to A LOT more than years than the 57 years which is the timespan from 1952-2009.

This is a direct contradiction and/or a gross error.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
33 Presidential terms which would be an ABSOLUTE minimum of 133 years (if each only served one term).  Of course its more years than 133 given multiple terms some were elected to.  But lets keep it simple.

Your article claims that at least 133 years worth of Proclamations were made (claiming that 33 presidents have signed Proclimations for a National Day of Prayer".)

and

It is also claiming only 57 years worth of 7 National Prayer Day Proclamations from 1952-2009.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW? The math does not add up.  Your article is in contradiction with itself. Your sources are totally bunk and dubious and Barton is not regarded by any credible institution as being remotely esteemed or credible.

Do you wish for me to post why he is considered a discredited loon who is factually incorrect and distorts history and at times makes things up?

The True Adonis

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Re: Judge: Natl Day Of Prayer Unconstitutional
« Reply #65 on: April 22, 2010, 01:32:44 PM »
You should also be terribly ashamed by perpetuating myths of Jefferson and the 1805 Inaugural Address.

You are being factually incorrect and intellectually dishonest.  Please stop trying to rewrite history.


The True Adonis

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Re: Judge: Natl Day Of Prayer Unconstitutional
« Reply #66 on: April 22, 2010, 01:37:27 PM »
Barton's "work" has received  no academic acceptance.

The True Adonis

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Re: Judge: Natl Day Of Prayer Unconstitutional
« Reply #67 on: April 22, 2010, 01:40:09 PM »
 ???  ???
Loony, Loony Loony!  Credible eh?


http://www.dallaspeacecenter.org/node/4248

David Barton, Minister Who Believes Hurricane Was God’s Punishment For Gays To Guide Revision Of TX Social Studies Curriculum

The True Adonis

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Re: Judge: Natl Day Of Prayer Unconstitutional
« Reply #68 on: April 22, 2010, 01:42:46 PM »
Get a Fucking Clue Beach Bum:

More on your Barton:

Barton is a self-styled “historian” who has no training in social sciences or history. In his books and teachings, he argues that separation of church and state is a myth and that America’s laws should be based solely on Biblical scriptures. His numerous claims include that the Bible forbids income and capitol gains Taxes. Barton’s views are so far right that even such groups as the Texas Baptists Committeed and the Baptist Joint Committee have been vocal critics of his interpretations history and the U.S. Constitution.

Worse, in Barton’s role as a faux historian, he acknowledges using quotes–nearly a dozen in all–that he has attributed to the nation’s founders although he frely admits he cannot provide any primary source documents proving that the quotes were ever said or could be attributed to those he claims. Clearly, primary sources are a foundation of legitimate historicl pursuits, and Barton clearly isn’t a fan of any primary source aside from the Bible (and, we presume, his own creative imagination).

Barton’s controversial reputation stretches back more than a decade. In 1991, he spoke at an event hosted by groups tied to white supremacists, but later claimed he had not known that the groups were “part of a Nazi movement.” (Casper Star Tribune, 6/20/97, 6/22/97, letter from David Barton, 7/2/93; Boston, Rob. “David Barton: Master of Myth and Misinformation,” Freedom Writer, Institute for First Amendment Studies, June 1996.)

In addition, Barton’s WallBuilders Web site suggests as a “helpful” resource the National Association of Christian Educators/Citizens for Excellence in Education, an organization that calls public schools places of “social depravity” and “spiritual slaughter.”

Barton has written that U.S. Congressman Keith Ellison, who is Muslim, has “flaunted American traditions and cultural values” by openly taking his oath of office on the Koran instead of the Bible, and he has encouraged others to seek Ellison’s conversion to Christianity.

Barton has argued that the Supreme Court’s decision that sodomy laws are unconstitutional will lead to, among other things, the legalization of public sex, prostitution, polygamy, the promotion of homosexuality in public schools and the end of abstinence-only sex education.

He characterizes the debate over evolution as a “death struggle between civilizations,” with the courts siding with “non-theistic” evolution and threatening what he sees as the biblical foundations for protecting freedom.

As for Marshall, his Ministries website includes commentary by marshall attacking Muslims, characterizing the Obama administration as “wicked” and calling on Christian parents to reject public education for their children.

He has also attacked Roman Catholic and mainstream Protestent churches. Calling for a spiritual revivial in America last year, he called traditional Protestant denominations an “institutionally fossilized, Bible-rejecting shell of Christianity.”

The True Adonis

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Re: Judge: Natl Day Of Prayer Unconstitutional
« Reply #69 on: April 22, 2010, 01:46:37 PM »
Nothing pisses me off more than the spreading of Disinformation, misinformation and lies.

People like Beach Bum are easily taken in by it and then promote it.  It is sickening.

boonasty

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Re: Judge: Natl Day Of Prayer Unconstitutional
« Reply #70 on: April 22, 2010, 03:10:01 PM »
Nothing pisses me off more than the spreading of Disinformation, misinformation and lies.



lol!

Dos Equis

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Re: Judge: Natl Day Of Prayer Unconstitutional
« Reply #71 on: April 22, 2010, 03:37:25 PM »
lol!

Funny, no?   :)

TA:  shut up. 

Dos Equis

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Re: Judge: Natl Day Of Prayer Unconstitutional
« Reply #72 on: April 22, 2010, 03:38:06 PM »
Sadly, you're absolutely right... 

Nothing sad about that part of our history and society.  It's a great thing. 

The True Adonis

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Re: Judge: Natl Day Of Prayer Unconstitutional
« Reply #73 on: April 22, 2010, 03:47:33 PM »
Rapture Ready Rednecks.  ;D

tonymctones

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Re: Judge: Natl Day Of Prayer Unconstitutional
« Reply #74 on: April 22, 2010, 10:12:13 PM »
Rapture Ready Rednecks.  ;D
looks like obama is one of the rapture ready... ;)

White House to fight to preserve National Day of Prayer
http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/04/22/national.day.of.prayer/index.html