Author Topic: Protectionism Didn't Cause the Great Depression  (Read 856 times)

Stormspirit

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Protectionism Didn't Cause the Great Depression
« on: April 16, 2010, 01:37:28 PM »
I'm not sure I've ever heard that 'protectionism' caused the great depression but it is frequently credited with making it worse or last longer.  Good article regardless, worth a read.

April 09, 2010
Protectionism Didn't Cause the Great Depression
By Ian Fletcher
The debate over free trade is riddled with myth after myth. One that keeps resurfacing, no matter how many times it is discredited, is the idea that protectionism caused the Great Depression. One occasionally even hears that this same protectionism -- specifically, the Smoot-Hawley tariff of 1930 -- was responsible in significant part for World War Two! This is nonsense dreamed up for propaganda purposes by free traders, and it can easily be debunked.

Let's start by reminding ourselves of a basic fact: The Depression's cause was monetary. The Federal Reserve had allowed the money supply to balloon excessively during the late 1920s, causing it to pile up in the stock market as a bubble. The Fed then panicked, miscalculated, and let the money supply collapse by a third by 1933, depriving the economy of the liquidity it needed to breathe. Trade had nothing to do with it.

The Smoot-Hawley tariff was simply too small a policy change to have so large an effect as triggering a depression. For a start, it applied to only about one-third of America's trade: about 1.3 percent of our GDP. One point three percent! America's average tariff on goods subject to tariff went from 44.6 to 53.2 percent -- not a very big jump at all. America's tariffs were higher in almost every year from 1821 to 1914. Our tariffs went up in 1861, 1864, 1890, and 1922 without producing global depressions, and the great recessions of 1873 and 1893 spread worldwide without needing the help of any tariff increases.

If Smoot-Hawley had caused a global trade disaster, it would necessarily have been by triggering a sharp decline in American imports of goods subject to the increased tariff. Did this happen? The data say no. In the words of economic historian, former member of the U.S. International Trade Commission, and avowed free trader Prof. Alfred E. Eckes,

    Official data show that higher U.S. tariffs had little impact on American imports. From 1929 to 1932, imports of dutiable and duty-free goods fell almost the same percentage, suggesting that higher tariffs had little impact on most trading partners ... The sharpest drop in exports involved commodity-exporting countries, including some like Brazil, largely unaffected by higher U.S. tariffs.


World trade did indeed decline, but this was due to the Depression itself, not higher American tariffs. This is no surprise, as declines in the values of the currencies of America's major trading partners wiped away much of the effect of the tariff anyway.

In light of the facts noted above, it is, in fact, true that just about every serious economist or economic historian -- as opposed to the ideologues of the editorial pages or the think-tanks -- who has examined this question in detail has come to the same conclusion. This is not a liberal vs. conservative issue, either: Famous economists who have denied that Smoot-Hawley caused the Depression range from Milton Friedman on the right to Paul Krugman on the left.

The same fact can be ascertained by looking at Smoot-Hawley's impact on the world economy at large. As the economic historian (and free trader) William Bernstein puts it in his book A Splendid Exchange: How Trade Shaped the World,

    Between 1929 and 1932, real GDP fell 17 percent worldwide, and by 26 percent in the United States, but most economic historians now believe that only a miniscule part of that huge loss of both world GDP and the United States' GDP can be ascribed to the tariff wars. ... At the time of Smoot-Hawley's passage, trade volume accounted for only about 9 percent of world economic output. Had all international trade been eliminated, and had no domestic use for the previously exported goods been found, world GDP would have fallen by the same amount -- 9 percent. Between 1930 and 1933, worldwide trade volume fell off by one-third to one-half. Depending on how the falloff is measured, this computes to 3 to 5 percent of world GDP, and these losses were partially made up by more expensive domestic goods. Thus, the damage done could not possibly have exceeded 1 or 2 percent of world GDP -- nowhere near the 17 percent falloff seen during the Great Depression. ... The inescapable conclusion: contrary to public perception, Smoot-Hawley did not cause, or even significantly deepen, the Great Depression.


The oft-bandied idea that Smoot-Hawley started a global trade war of endless cycles of tit-for-tat retaliation is also mythical. According to the official State Department report on this very question in 1931:

    With the exception of discriminations in France, the extent of discrimination against American commerce is very slight ... By far the largest number of countries do not discriminate against the commerce of the United States in any way.


That is to say, foreign nations did indeed raise their tariffs after the passage of Smoot, but this was a broad-brush response to the Depression itself, aimed at all other foreign nations without distinction, and not a retaliation against the U.S. for its own tariff. The doom-loop of spiraling tit-for-tat retaliation between trading partners that paralyzes free traders with fear today simply did not happen.

The myth of Smoot-Hawley continues to poison U.S. policymaking even today, as it renders the U.S. government fearful of retaliating against problems like Chinese currency manipulation. But hopefully, the present controversy over free trade will eventually provoke enough public debate that this hoary myth can finally be put to bed forever.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/04/protectionism_didnt_cause_the.html

Soul Crusher

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Re: Protectionism Didn't Cause the Great Depression
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2010, 01:45:44 PM »
Good post. 

The Federal Reserve bank has its hands all over the depression. 

kcballer

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Re: Protectionism Didn't Cause the Great Depression
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2010, 01:53:58 PM »
More republican mistakes that a great democrat fixed - FDR in this case.
Abandon every hope...

Soul Crusher

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Re: Protectionism Didn't Cause the Great Depression
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2010, 01:55:47 PM »
More republican mistakes that a great democrat fixed - FDR in this case.

 ::)  ::)

13 Years and FDR didnt do shit.  WW2, 240,000 deaths, and a lack of any competition from overseas ended the depression. 

kcballer

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Re: Protectionism Didn't Cause the Great Depression
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2010, 02:05:07 PM »
::)  ::)

13 Years and FDR didnt do shit.  WW2, 240,000 deaths, and a lack of any competition from overseas ended the depression. 

hahaha yeah okay keep reading your UCLA bullsh*t articles i'll read logic, fact and reasoning by a majority of economists.  Oh wait you read economics in one lesson and it came from jekyl island you're an expert right?  Please then expert explain your views with evidence and sources to back up your claim in your own words of course. 
Abandon every hope...

Soul Crusher

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Re: Protectionism Didn't Cause the Great Depression
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2010, 02:09:21 PM »
hahaha yeah okay keep reading your UCLA bullsh*t articles i'll read logic, fact and reasoning by a majority of economists.  Oh wait you read economics in one lesson and it came from jekyl island you're an expert right?  Please then expert explain your views with evidence and sources to back up your claim in your own words of course. 

Those are the starting points. 

MM2K

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Re: Protectionism Didn't Cause the Great Depression
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2010, 02:11:20 PM »
INteresting. But yeah, it was only recently that I heard that Smoot Hawtly caused the Great Depression. I had heard that it had exascerbated it. But not caused it.  However, I wonder how this guy would square the fact that unemployment had already been going back DOWN from 9% to 6% after the crash, then started going back UP after the passage of Smoot Hawtley. Im not sure when exactly Hoover's massive tax hikes and minimum wages started going into effect, but that probably had a more significant effect than Smoot Hawtley.

In any event, free trade ALWAYS works better than protectionism and ALWAYS has more benifits and less costs. Its one of the few non controversies among economists, and that is why every Presidnet since Herbert Hoover has been a free trader (except for the possibility of Barack Obama).

And in regards to China: What the hell to people hope to achieve? Give me a break. China can do what the hell it wants with its currency. People could accuse us of the same thing with the policy on our dollar.
Jan. Jobs: 36,000!!

Soul Crusher

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Re: Protectionism Didn't Cause the Great Depression
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2010, 02:16:49 PM »
INteresting. But yeah, it was only recently that I heard that Smoot Hawtly caused the Great Depression. I had heard that it had exascerbated it. But not caused it.  However, I wonder how this guy would square the fact that unemployment had already been going back DOWN from 9% to 6% after the crash, then started going back UP after the passage of Smoot Hawtley. Im not sure when exactly Hoover's massive tax hikes and minimum wages started going into effect, but that probably had a more significant effect than Smoot Hawtley.

In any event, free trade ALWAYS works better than protectionism and ALWAYS has more benifits and less costs. Its one of the few non controversies among economists, and that is why every Presidnet since Herbert Hoover has been a free trader (except for the possibility of Barack Obama).

And in regards to China: What the hell to people hope to achieve? Give me a break. China can do what the hell it wants with its currency. People could accuse us of the same thing with the policy on our dollar.

The problem is that cheap labor in China and Indina makes it such that companies who make stuff have an inherehent incentive to make things over there as opposed to the us considering out insane laws and policies here. 

MM2K

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Re: Protectionism Didn't Cause the Great Depression
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2010, 02:17:45 PM »
More republican mistakes that a great democrat fixed - FDR in this case.

Nope. FDR took everything that Herbert Hoover did and made it far worse. FDR's policies were Hoover's policies on steroids. By the end of the 30s we were still at 20% unemployment with a large debt to boot.  The only think that FDR did better than Hoover was free trade.  Today's Democrats have policies much closer to Hoover's than today's Republicans.
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MM2K

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Re: Protectionism Didn't Cause the Great Depression
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2010, 02:21:41 PM »
The problem is that cheap labor in China and Indina makes it such that companies who make stuff have an inherehent incentive to make things over there as opposed to the us considering out insane laws and policies here. 

So US consumers will get to buy that stuff for cheaper and use the savings to buy things that will create jobs for the US.
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Soul Crusher

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Re: Protectionism Didn't Cause the Great Depression
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2010, 02:23:52 PM »
So US consumers will get to buy that stuff for cheaper and use the savings to buy things that will create jobs for the US.

However, we now have a permanent underclass of people since jobs that these people used to be able to fill in factories, plants, and making things is no longer here. 

The piss poor education system now results in our having tens of millions of unemployable people we now have to pay for. 

We need manufacting for basic stuff since those jobs and goods would be made by people who now are on welfare or jail or just a drain on society.