70% of Arizona Voters Favor New State Measure Cracking Down On Illegals

[240 is Back]

If I believed it would be good cops using it to nail bad guys, I'd be 100% behind it.

I just keep thinking bad cops and of course, the white house, will use it and advance it to move us more to a state where cops can pull you out of lines in movie theaters and demand to "see your papers!"  Or where they can round up thousands of people after a katrina and make them live in a fenced in area (or camp lol) until the computer systems allow us to check everyone... weeks, months...

I'm all for stopping the criminals.. I just don't trust the ppl in charge all that much.

[chaos]

I'm all for stopping the criminals.. I just don't trust the ppl in charge all that much.

That's because they are one in the same.

[240 is Back]

haha ya got that right.

[tonymctones]

If I believed it would be good cops using it to nail bad guys, I'd be 100% behind it.

I just keep thinking bad cops and of course, the white house, will use it and advance it to move us more to a state where cops can pull you out of lines in movie theaters and demand to "see your papers!"  Or where they can round up thousands of people after a katrina and make them live in a fenced in area (or camp lol) until the computer systems allow us to check everyone... weeks, months...

I'm all for stopping the criminals.. I just don't trust the ppl in charge all that much.

so you agree its NOT THE LAW ITS THE PPL BEHIND IT?

how is that different that any other law we have on the books? FUKING SERIOUSLY IM WAITING!!!!!!!!!!!

[tonymctones]

oh yea whats the language in this bill?

OOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHH WAITTTTTTTTTTTTT you dont know??? color me shocked!!!!!!!!

[240 is Back]

33 posted the exact line of the bill, and we had a great convo on it.  "Reasonable"... very questionable. 


The prob dude - and please, you are angry when it's not really necessary - is that cops can abuse this, and politicians can use it as step 1 of 'take your liberties'.

That's all.  I'm all for crippling the shit out of every illegal we see.  Then the limp will give them away   but my ass was in cuffs this year, despite doing nothing wrong, and that... shit... SUCKED.  I'd hate to give cops the ability to just cuff and card people all day long.

[tonymctones]

33 posted the exact line of the bill, and we had a great convo on it.  "Reasonable"... very questionable. 


The prob dude - and please, you are angry when it's not really necessary - is that cops can abuse this, and politicians can use it as step 1 of 'take your liberties'.

That's all.  I'm all for crippling the shit out of every illegal we see.  Then the limp will give them away   but my ass was in cuffs this year, despite doing nothing wrong, and that... shit... SUCKED.  I'd hate to give cops the ability to just cuff and card people all day long.

answer the damn question...how is it different than ANY OTHER LAW WE HAVE ON THE BOOKS!!!...every fuking law we have is subjective to the officer enforcing it.

EXPLAIN TO ME how this law differs...YOURE ok with officers being subjective to who the pull over for dwi's how is this law different...

EXPLAIN THE DIFFERENCE

[tonymctones]

33 posted the exact line of the bill, and we had a great convo on it.  "Reasonable"... very questionable. 


The prob dude - and please, you are angry when it's not really necessary - is that cops can abuse this, and politicians can use it as step 1 of 'take your liberties'.

That's all.  I'm all for crippling the shit out of every illegal we see.  Then the limp will give them away   but my ass was in cuffs this year, despite doing nothing wrong, and that... shit... SUCKED.  I'd hate to give cops the ability to just cuff and card people all day long.

THEY ALREADY HAVE THAT RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!

they did that legally before this law was passed how is this law any different?

TELL ME, how this law differs from any other on the books?

[240 is Back]

I didnt think police could pull ppl out of line at movie theaters, buying ice cream cones, or at grocery stores, and demand to see their ID, currently.  Can they?

They have that power now, if in their own belief/justification they believe that person is an illegal.  Right now, thy have to make up some reason they stopped the person in their car.

They can stop you on the corner now.  In the mall.   Anywhere.  They can stop groups of ppl at the grocery store and demand papers.  

That's what I dont like - because it it step one in some very bad things.  What is next?  Can they see a person in their own front yard, and cuff them and demand papers there as well?  Sounds like that to me.

We'll see what happens once the bil goes into effect and we see things actually happening.  We're a bunch of non-lawyers arguing the ramifications of a bill not in play now.  Don't get me wrong - I'm against illegals... but if 1 or 10,000 actual legal americans have to sit cuffed on their own front porch because some cop doesn't like them and feels like fvcking with them - it's legal.  I dont like that.

[tonymctones]

I didnt think police could pull ppl out of line at movie theaters, buying ice cream cones, or at grocery stores, and demand to see their ID, currently.  Can they?

They have that power now, if in their own belief/justification they believe that person is an illegal.  Right now, thy have to make up some reason they stopped the person in their car.

They can stop you on the corner now.  In the mall.   Anywhere.  They can stop groups of ppl at the grocery store and demand papers.  

That's what I dont like - because it it step one in some very bad things.  What is next?  Can they see a person in their own front yard, and cuff them and demand papers there as well?  Sounds like that to me.

We'll see what happens once the bil goes into effect and we see things actually happening.  We're a bunch of non-lawyers arguing the ramifications of a bill not in play now.  Don't get me wrong - I'm against illegals... but if 1 or 10,000 actual legal americans have to sit cuffed on their own front porch because some cop doesn't like them and feels like fvcking with them - it's legal.  I dont like that.

the law also says "that they come in contact with" to me this means that they have reason other than your immigration status to talk to you...if in talking to you they feel that you may not be legal they ask for papers...

same thing as every other law on the books...

youre pissy about having benn hand cuffed for 15 mins but WHEN IT HAPPEND you were on here saying how yes it was a inconvience but worth it to make sure you werent the perp and that you TOTALLY understood why they did it and they were reasonable and polite about it...OR DO YOU NEED ME TO BUMP THAT THREAD?

[chaos]

  I'd hate to give cops the ability to just cuff and card people all day long.

They already can.

I didnt think police could pull ppl out of line at movie theaters, buying ice cream cones, or at grocery stores, and demand to see their ID, currently.  Can they?

If they have "just cause" to believe you may be doing something illegal, they can. And they need this same "just cause" under the new law. They can't just approach anyone they want and hassle them. Although "just cause" is very subjective as you found out.

[Soul Crusher]

the law also says "that they come in contact with" to me this means that they have reason other than your immigration status to talk to you...if in talking to you they feel that you may not be legal they ask for papers...

same thing as every other law on the books...

youre pissy about having benn hand cuffed for 15 mins but WHEN IT HAPPEND you were on here saying how yes it was a inconvience but worth it to make sure you werent the perp and that you TOTALLY understood why they did it and they were reasonable and polite about it...OR DO YOU NEED ME TO BUMP THAT THREAD?

Ha Ha Ha - I REMEMBER THAT ONE! 

[240 is Back]

"the law also says "that they come in contact with" to me this means that they have reason other than your immigration status to talk to you...if in talking to you they feel that you may not be legal they ask for papers..."

Can you say "come in contact with" doesn't mean, see you standing around drinking a soda?

I did understand why I ws cuffed, and as I explained here this week, I understood there was an amber alert in my area that matched - they were police as was I - still, to this day, I feel like shit driving past that parking lot where I was cuffed.


I'm starting to realize I'm debating with you for no good reason here. lol

[chaos]

"the law also says "that they come in contact with" to me this means that they have reason other than your immigration status to talk to you...if in talking to you they feel that you may not be legal they ask for papers..."

Can you say "come in contact with" doesn't mean, see you standing around drinking a soda?

I did understand why I ws cuffed, and as I explained here this week, I understood there was an amber alert in my area that matched - they were police as was I - still, to this day, I feel like shit driving past that parking lot where I was cuffed.

I'm starting to realize I'm debating with you for no good reason here. lol

Maybe you should get therapy for crying out loud, you were handcuffed and let go, you weren't even cited for anything right?

I can't believe how whiny you're being.

[240 is Back]

ok, so be it


have you been cuffed before?  it's a fuckeked up feeling.  I would hate to see a world where I'm cuffed 20 or 30 times a year in ID sweeps.

If you haven't been cuffed, you wouldn't understand.  Complete loss of control.

[chaos]

ok, so be it


have you been cuffed before?  it's a fuckeked up feeling.  I would hate to see a world where I'm cuffed 20 or 30 times a year in ID sweeps.

If you haven't been cuffed, you wouldn't understand.  Complete loss of control.

I've been cuffed and stuffed a few times, I've had cops and not so nice people put guns directly in my face, but I'm still here, and have moved on, I'd suggest you get over it, it was nothing.

Do you honestly think the cops will be pulling random white people from movie theatres to check their immigration status?  WTF is wrong with you? Are you so blind you can't see why this law was put into effect? I believe it was soely for the purpose of being able to enforce the laws that already exist.  What good does it do to have illegal immigration laws when the cops can't ask if you are here legally or not? This law allows them to ask those questions.

[240 is Back]

I'm concerned about abuses of this law.  The movie theater example is one that COULD happen - any cop at any time can pull any person out of any place and demand papers.

You think Obama wouldn't love some power like that?  You think that the contractors capping people after Katrina woudln't have loved to be able to round up thousands of people and file the into camps (because you can't call in an ID without power, computers up).

I am really surprised it's the libs crying about the potential for abuse by the govt down the road.  The repubs are just shrugging and saying "hey, they don't fvck with white people, I'm safe".  The prob is, step 2 or 3 could be that.  IMO, this kind of legislation opens up not only chance of abuse, but slowly numbs ppl into accepting a national ID card system as well.

And conservatives USED TO hate that idea.  Now, as long as its painted in GOP colors and disses those darn illegals, they'll be lining up to get chipped

[chaos]

I'm concerned about abuses of this law.  The movie theater example is one that COULD happen - any cop at any time can pull any person out of any place and demand papers.

1) Any law can be abused by any number of cops.

2) "just cause", "probably cause".......a cop needs a reason to stop a person, you keep making up scenerios where cops can just approach you at any time and demand papers.

[Soul Crusher]

ok, so be it


have you been cuffed before?  it's a fuckeked up feeling.  I would hate to see a world where I'm cuffed 20 or 30 times a year in ID sweeps.

If you haven't been cuffed, you wouldn't understand.  Complete loss of control.

So what would you do?

[chaos]

So what would you do?

He wants to cripple illegal aliens, but without the ability to identify them we'll never know if they are illegal in order to cripple them.

[Soul Crusher]

He wants to cripple illegal aliens, but without the ability to identify them we'll never know if they are illegal in order to cripple them.

240 has a jekyl and hyde like personality at times. 

[240 is Back]

what would I do?

bring home 10% of the troops and put them on the border.  At that point, the number of illegals is 15 million FLAT, and will begin shrinking slowly.

Some will apply for citizenship.  Some will get kicked out as usual.  With troops in the area, locals will get more bold with coming fwd with info on coyotes, safehouses, employers of illegals, etc. 

I think it wouldn't take a huge legislation move.  I think it would be a community effort - hell, we all know a place that employs illegals, or we see people who we know aren't here legally.  If the US Army had a base 5 minutes away you could call, and they kept the area free from retaliation, people would rat out the illegals.

That current 15 mil number would also shrink as employers couldn't hire them anymore, and they just went back to mex cause the work dried up.

Guard the border and empower people to come fwd and feel safe as they rat out illegals and illegal employers.

[tonymctones]

what would I do?

bring home 10% of the troops and put them on the border.  At that point, the number of illegals is 15 million FLAT, and will begin shrinking slowly.

Some will apply for citizenship.  Some will get kicked out as usual.  With troops in the area, locals will get more bold with coming fwd with info on coyotes, safehouses, employers of illegals, etc. 

I think it wouldn't take a huge legislation move.  I think it would be a community effort - hell, we all know a place that employs illegals, or we see people who we know aren't here legally.  If the US Army had a base 5 minutes away you could call, and they kept the area free from retaliation, people would rat out the illegals.

That current 15 mil number would also shrink as employers couldn't hire them anymore, and they just went back to mex cause the work dried up.

Guard the border and empower people to come fwd and feel safe as they rat out illegals and illegal employers.

funny when reps wanted to man the border and build a big wall you shit on it...

how niave can you be 240? you really think simply putting ppl on teh border is going to do all that?

you really think putting ppl on the border is going to stop ppl from coming in? if you do you need to visit a border state and get a first hand dose of reality bro..

for someone talking about "not knowing how it feels if you werent in that sitution" you really have no clue about the ins and outs of this situation...

[240 is Back]

A wall is a bad idea because if you build a 10 foot wall, then people will just bring an 11-foot ladder.  It'll cost a ton of money and people will just knock holes in it.

However, a few bases - simply barracks and roaming patrols, along with good intel from locals, and you stop them from coming in, and you kick a lot out.

i'd like to hear your opinions on this one.  I was asked what I think would fix it - I think this would.  Let the Army guard the border.  use predators to watch from the sky.  Use that nice infared technology to catch people in trunks.  Use that nice airport ID technology at the borders.  Pay $100 for every tip that leads to an illegal being deported.  You don't think people will snitch on an illegal for a little cash?  LOL... So those are my ideas.  Spend less, keep the borders safe, and motivate people to turn them in, and let the Army remove the foreign invaders from teh USA.   Stop the influx, motivate people to turn them in, and dry up their work.  Their numbers will plummet.

I know you live in a border state, and I'm interested in why you don't think the US Army - treating them as foreign invaders - wouldn't be effective?

[tonymctones]

A wall is a bad idea because if you build a 10 foot wall, then people will just bring an 11-foot ladder.  It'll cost a ton of money and people will just knock holes in it.

However, a few bases - simply barracks and roaming patrols, along with good intel from locals, and you stop them from coming in, and you kick a lot out.

i'd like to hear your opinions on this one.  I was asked what I think would fix it - I think this would.  Let the Army guard the border.  use predators to watch from the sky.  Use that nice infared technology to catch people in trunks.  Use that nice airport ID technology at the borders.  Pay $100 for every tip that leads to an illegal being deported.  You don't think people will snitch on an illegal for a little cash?  LOL... So those are my ideas.  Spend less, keep the borders safe, and motivate people to turn them in, and let the Army remove the foreign invaders from teh USA.   Stop the influx, motivate people to turn them in, and dry up their work.  Their numbers will plummet.

I know you live in a border state, and I'm interested in why you don't think the US Army - treating them as foreign invaders - wouldn't be effective?

b/c it doesnt eliminate their desire to come here...

ive always said we need to secure the border but that is simply part of it, no matter what you do they will find away to get around it, its what they do...

you stop hiring them, giving them benefits, giving them mediacal care, CRIMINALIZE what is already a crime with them being in this country illegally and you will have a start...dont let the anchor baby bullshit  go anymore

come on down to Texas 240 and see all the border patrols that roam around...they have about a 10foot strip of clean dirt on either side of the road so that when they see prints of that the dirt has been disturbed they know someone has crossed.

we already have roaming patrols, we already have officers that do exactly what your saying to do.

How do you suppose we go about identifying illegals 240?