Palumbo tells us his contest prep cycle

[~UN_$ung~]

mega doses arent necessary although alot of people do use mega doses.. mega doses do not work much better than moderate doses... and moderate doses work moderately better than low doses...  no matter what the doseage, gains are always correlated with training stimuli.. the best doseage isnt weekly its yearly, as in consistancy with drugs rather than extreme levels of them.

so you advocate long, moderate dose cycles?

what in you opinion is a test dose that is dangerously high?

[tbombz]

Have you competed yet? How many competitors or pros have you trained? Who have you trained?

dont forget, i added a key:

key for above terminology:

mega doses: over 7-8mg's per lb of lean body weight

moderate doses: 3-6mg's per lb of lean bodyweight

low doses: under 3 mg's per lb of lean bodyweight

[Coach is Back!]

dont forget, i added a key:

key for above terminology:

mega doses: over 7-8mg's per lb of lean body weight

moderate doses: 3-6mg's per lb of lean bodyweight

low doses: under 3 mg's per lb of lean bodyweight

That wasn't my question and is that a blanket statement. Practical application ALWAYS has variations.

[tbombz]

so you advocate long, moderate dose cycles?

what in you opinion is a test dose that is dangerously high?

do you take breaks from eating, or takes breaks from training? does eating more than a few hundred calories above what you need or training for more than a few hours do anything more for you?

[MadeYaMelt]

mega doses arent necessary although alot of people do use mega doses.. mega doses do not work much better than moderate doses... and moderate doses work moderately better than low doses work...  no matter what the doseage, gains are always correlated with training stimuli, and training should be top priority... but the best doseage isnt weekly mg's, its yearly.. as in consistancy with drugs rather than extreme levels of them...


key for above terminology:

mega doses: over 7-8mg's per lb of lean body weight

moderate doses: 3-6mg's per lb of lean bodyweight

low doses: under 3 mg's per lb of lean bodyweight


 

I disagree with most all of this.  First, no studies indicate that a person of higher bodyweight requires more AAS.  It doesn't work that way. 

Second, running any compound year-round is unwise and will always lead to shutdown.  I've always recommended cycles no longer than 16-20 weeks, with HCG during at least the last half of the cycle.  This allows you to recover quickly and as a result, your training doesn't suffer. 

[Coach is Back!]

I disagree with most all of this.  First, no studies indicate that a person of higher bodyweight requires more AAS.  It doesn't work that way. 

Second, running any compound year-round is unwise and will always lead to shutdown.  I've always recommended cycles no longer than 16-20 weeks, with HCG during at least the last half of the cycle.  This allows you to recover quickly and as a result, your training doesn't suffer. 

Which is why I asked if what he said was a blanket statement.

[tbombz]

That wasn't my question and is that a blanket statement. Practical application ALWAYS has variations.

i was being humorous, .........dont be obtuse

I disagree with most all of this.  First, no studies indicate that a person of higher bodyweight requires more AAS.  It doesn't work that way.  

Second, running any compound year-round is unwise and will always lead to shutdown.  I've always recommended cycles no longer than 16-20 weeks, with HCG during at least the last half of the cycle.  This allows you to recover quickly and as a result, your training doesn't suffer.  

who cares ?



































 

Studies havent been done on bodyweight requirements for hormones. but common sense would lead one to the conclusion that bodyweight does apply. shutdown is going to occur within days pf the first injection or tablet taken..  regardless of how long the cycle lasts.

[~UN_$ung~]

I disagree with most all of this.  First, no studies indicate that a person of higher bodyweight requires more AAS.  It doesn't work that way. 

Second, running any compound year-round is unwise and will always lead to shutdown.  I've always recommended cycles no longer than 16-20 weeks, with HCG during at least the last half of the cycle.  This allows you to recover quickly and as a result, your training doesn't suffer. 

just circumstantial observation, i am 6'4, many of my friends are tall as well

my tall friends, me included.....tend to require higher does the a short person to achieve a comparable level of muscularity

[MadeYaMelt]

so you advocate long, moderate dose cycles?

what in you opinion is a test dose that is dangerously high?

UN - it's hard to say at what dose things become "dangerous."  However, a good rule of thumb is around 1000mg a week.  For many, at this dose, they start to see many more side effects than they would at 500 or 750.  You need to also consider the principle of diminishing returns.  I've heard from guys that did 5000mg a week (yes, that's 5 grams) that that dose was no better than their usual 3000mg. 

There is also the idea of receptor saturation.  It's just a theory though, and has never been proven... 

[tbombz]

UN - it's hard to say at what dose things become "dangerous."  However, a good rule of thumb is around 1000mg a week.  For many, at this dose, they start to see many more side effects than they would at 500 or 750.  You need to also consider the principle of diminishing returns.  I've heard from guys that did 5000mg a week (yes, that's 5 grams) that that dose was no better than their usual 3000mg. 

There is also the idea of receptor saturation.  It's just a theory though, and has never been proven... 

the level of hormones necessary to reach receptor saturation would be dependent on the number of androgen recepttors which would be dependant on bodyweight(muscle weight)..

you already understood you just didnt understand quite yet

[MadeYaMelt]

i was being humorous, .........dont be obtuse
who cares ?



































 

Studies havent been done on bodyweight requirements for hormones. but common sense would lead one to the conclusion that bodyweight does apply. shutdown is going to occur within days pf the first injection or tablet taken..  regardless of how long the cycle lasts.

  

Of course shut-down occurs, however staying on year-round makes coming off a hell of alot harder, even with the aid of HCG.  Of course for pro-BBers who make their living off their physiques, they must stay on. 

Just because someone has 250 lbs of LBM, simply doesn't mean they require more AAS than someone with 200 lbs.  The fact that they are bigger could be a result of a number of genetic factors - not least of which is how their receptors respond to androgens.  See Phil Heath as an example. 

[MadeYaMelt]

the level of hormones necessary to reach receptor saturation would be dependent on the number of androgen recepttors which would be dependant on bodyweight(muscle weight)..

you already understood you just didnt understand quite yet

Again receptor saturation has not been proven, though I suspect it has some credibility.  I'm unsure why you say the AMOUNT of receptors one has depends on their LBM.  I see you reasoning, but have read no study in which this is discussed. 

[Wiggs]

I disagree with most all of this.  First, no studies indicate that a person of higher bodyweight requires more AAS.  It doesn't work that way. 

Second, running any compound year-round is unwise and will always lead to shutdown.  I've always recommended cycles no longer than 16-20 weeks, with HCG during at least the last half of the cycle.  This allows you to recover quickly and as a result, your training doesn't suffer. 

Running any stuff past 3 or 4 weeks is gonna shut you down.  In addition, I don't know the science behind it but why would running HCG in the middle of a cycle do anything Your body is still gonna know there is foreign test in the body and shut it down.  This is why PCT shouldn't happen until 2-3 weeks after your last dose of an oil base otherwise you're wasting money.

You are correct. Look at natural test levels. There is no proof that a guy 6 or 7 feet tall has a higher natural test level than a guy of 5'8 or 5'9.  I would think that leads thinking that just because you are taller you don't require more juice....Food for size yes.  Juice, no.

[tbombz]

Again receptor saturation has not been proven, though I suspect it has some credibility.  I'm unsure why you say the AMOUNT of receptors one has depends on their LBM.  I see you reasoning, but have read no study in which this is discussed.  

im sorry

please take a step back from your computer screen and think about this issue with some common sensee


how much water does it take to put out a fire? depends on how big the fire is right ??  u with me here ? lmao

[MadeYaMelt]

Running any stuff past 3 or 4 weeks is gonna shut you down.  In addition, I don't know the science behind it but why would running HCG in the middle of a cycle do anything Your body is still gonna know there is foreign test in the body and shut it down.  This is why PCT shouldn't happen until 2-3 weeks after your last dose of an oil base otherwise you're wasting money.

You are correct. Look at natural test levels. There is no proof that a guy 6 or 7 feet tall has a higher natural test level than a guy of 5'8 or 5'9.  I would think that leads thinking that just because you are taller you don't require more juice....Food for size yes.  Juice, no.

In layman's terms, HCG at the proper dose "tricks" your nuts into working again and, as you put it, ignoring the foreign test in your body.  Thus, when you come off of your cycle your body can recover much faster.  PCT is still necessary, but given cases I've seen, after you run that PCT for 3 or 4 weeks, you're body is basically fully recovered and producing as it should be. 

[tbombz]

Running any stuff past 3 or 4 weeks is gonna shut you down.  In addition, I don't know the science behind it but why would running HCG in the middle of a cycle do anything Your body is still gonna know there is foreign test in the body and shut it down.  This is why PCT shouldn't happen until 2-3 weeks after your last dose of an oil base otherwise you're wasting money.

You are correct. Look at natural test levels. There is no proof that a guy 6 or 7 feet tall has a higher natural test level than a guy of 5'8 or 5'9.  I would think that leads thinking that just because you are taller you don't require more juice....Food for size yes.  Juice, no.

hcg mid cycle works just fine... your logic is ok but your conclusion is flawed because you dont have all the pieces to the puzzle... hcg tells the balls to produce sperm and test... not the brain.. so it does matter if the brain knows theres exogenous test

[MadeYaMelt]

im sorry

please take a step back from your computer screen and think about this issue with some common sensee


how much water does it take to put out a fire? depends on how big the fire is right ??  u with me here ? lmao

Like I said, I see what you're saying and it makes sense.  But like I also said, I'm aware of no study that discusses either of the receptor issues I mentioned. 

Also, you can't discount the genetic variance between individuals.  To use your analogy, if the fire was a grease fire, no amount of water would put it out.   

[tbombz]

Like I said, I see what you're saying and it makes sense.  But like I also said, I'm aware of no study that discusses either of the receptor issues I mentioned.  

Also, you can't discount the genetic variance between individuals.  To use your analogy, if the fire was a grease fire, no amount of water would put it out.  

sure, but that is totally irrelevant to the discussion, is it not? if one has a genetic predisposition, then they have a genetic predispositon. nothing can change that, and that change doesnt change the fact that the more muscle they accumulate, the more steroids they will need to get the same effect

now, that being said... genetic variance is not significant among the majority of people.

[Rami]

Palumbo doens't come across as the most honest dude ever though

x2

Why would anyone take the things he says as face value.

[Wiggs]

But we can agree that there is no correlation between the size of a person and test production.  i.e. a fella 6'9 isn't gonna have a higher test level than a guy 5'9.  Therefore, more test isn't required for bigger guys...More food is though.

Not only height weight also...

[MadeYaMelt]

sure, but that is totally irrelevant to the discussion, is it not? if one has a genetic predisposition, then they have a genetic predispositon. nothing can change that, and that change doesnt change the fact that the more muscle they accumulate, the more steroids they will need to get the same effect

now, that being said... genetic variance is not significant among the majority of people.

From anecdotal experience, I think genetic variance is a HUGE factor.  Not only when it comes to one's response to androgens, but to training, nutrition, etc. 

As far as your other point goes, I stand corrected.  At first glance, this article seems to be well-researched and supports what you're saying.     http://www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/haycock/androgen-receptors-02.htm

 

[tbombz]

But we can agree that there is no correlation between the size of a person and test production.  i.e. a fella 6'9 isn't gonna have a higher test level than a guy 5'9.  Therefore, more test isn't required for bigger guys...More food is though.

Not only height weight also...

no

what your saying is this:

"testosterone is not responsible for the height and weight of men"



that is very different than saying

"effectiveness of testosterone is not muscle-weight dependant"



the size of a human, structurally, is dependant mostly on dna and GH levels during adolescents.

[Pet shop boys]

Palumbo doens't come across as the most honest dude ever though

Who is then?

Jay ? with his Muscletech contest prep, or Big Ronnie with his BSN Contest prep??


WOOOSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[mossel]

all you need is sustanon and igf... like these guys did...

[spinnis]

BOTTOM LINE:  they are all using LOTS of drugs, and when you see a guy improve after he has already been a upper-level bodybuilder for years......it NOT cause he changed his training or diet

Exactly. But DONT mention it lol!

http://forums.musculardevelopment.com/showthread.php?t=85612

post 24