True Adonis (Adam) has been completely exposed...

[noworries]

Translation: I'm upset because I've been exposed.

You won't debate Dr. Connelly, because he will expose YOU as the pea brain.

QFT.  Whenever anyone gets called out like Apenis has they come up with any kind of excise they can to avoid confrontation.  The sad thing is everyone anticipated it but was hoping it would be different.  So far everytime Apenis gets called out he folds and crawls back into a hole for a couple months.  You can't change the stripes on a tiger

[The True Adonis]

credibility when did that ever exist

It not like I would magically gain any in your eyes.  You and some others already have their bias and prejudices made up. Your Informational Process Biasing does not allow the ability to change how or why you think the way you do, even when face to face with glaring evidence and fact.

And this is why the world will seem so confusing to you and this is why you will remain angry with yourself and those around you.

[CT_Muscle]

It not like I would magically gain any in your eyes.  You and some others already have their bias and prejudices made up. Your Informational Process Biasing does not allow the ability to change how or why you think the way you do, even when face to face with glaring evidence and fact.

And this is why the world will seem so confusing to you and this is why you will remain angry with yourself and those around you.

no anger here brother, show me some glaring evidence 

[The True Adonis]

no anger here brother, show me some glaring evidence 

Of what?

[PJim]

what's the common denomination in all of weight loss? calorie defecit. why would you set yourself up for failure by eating like a retard, ignoring the need for variety.

[Whiskey]

QFT.  Whenever anyone gets called out like Apenis has they come up with any kind of excise they can to avoid confrontation.  The sad thing is everyone anticipated it but was hoping it would be different.  So far everytime Apenis gets called out he folds and crawls back into a hole for a couple months.  You can't change the stripes on a tiger

I thought he posted the deadlift video? Quite a feat of strenght and endurance 220pounds for 100plus reps

Dont listen to them TA you are a man of honor and integrity,

How is the anti gravity suit coming along by the way?

What did NASA say, bet there excited

[mar10s]

Still going back and forth bitching and trying to make a point on the forum...not face to face in a debate that Mindspin was trying to set up.  Eventually trying to water down the thread so it will go away and get lost with all the other ones.  This won't happen plain and simple.

[CT_Muscle]

It not like I would magically gain any in your eyes.  You and some others already have their bias and prejudices made up. Your Informational Process Biasing does not allow the ability to change how or why you think the way you do, even when face to face with glaring evidence and fact.

And this is why the world will seem so confusing to you and this is why you will remain angry with yourself and those around you.

that evidence of course

[shiftedShapes]

what's the common denomination in all of weight loss? calorie defecit. why would you set yourself up for failure by eating like a retard, ignoring the need for variety.

I think you answered your own question

[tbombz]

Oh...it is that VERY misconception that is at the heart of all this confusion.  We have to get this debate going.  I want you guys to hear Scott explain this!

hey im closer to scott it would be cheaper to fly me down and im a pretty big getbig name you know i dont think anyone would disagree that i could defend adam's, wavelengths and several others opinions on the issue....   afterall, its all just physics.. 

[Smanjh]

You know, even though the topic is on Adonis going to debate this guy, no one ever tries to defend the opposing position. Adonis says, "Here are the facts and the science behind them". You guys say, "Ha coward won't debate".

However, if the doctor wanted to debate, why not do it right here? Is he busy trying to rework the laws of therm o dynamics?

[The Ugly]

You know, even though the topic is on Adonis going to debate this guy, no one ever tries to defend the opposing position. Adonis says, "Here are the facts and the science behind them". You guys say, "Ha coward won't debate".

However, if the doctor wanted to debate, why not do it right here? Is he busy trying to rework the laws of therm o dynamics?

Pathetic, Adam.

[Thin Lizzy]

For years he has been touting that his "adonis principles" are the ideal way to eat in order to gain muscle/lose fat.  These principles are, of course, complete bullshit.  

I offered to fly him & his "girlfriend" to California (at my expense) so that he may debate this with Dr. Scott Connelly.  I would, of course videotape everything and post it on GB.  Unfortunately, he came up with 15 pages of excuses (see link below), thus exposing himself as a complete fraud  

The fact remains - calorie counting is useless.

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=328439.375;topicseen

Perhaps, I'm missing something.

Why can't they just have the debate right here on a separate thread?

[Dorian01]

Adonis knows he's full of shit. He's a troll. Can't be owned that way.

[JasonH]

Connelly believes that you can take a pair of monozygotic twins and put them both on an identical training regimen and identical caloric consumption.  However, if one is getting his calories primarily from protein, and the other is getting his calories primarily from carbs, they will end up with differing body composition.  In spite of the fact that both twins are burning & consuming the same amount of calories, the twin that is consuming primarily protein will end up with more muscle and lower body fat.

This sounds right to me - I don't see how it could be any other way. If you take the size of the calories and the amount of exercise out the equation and just focus on the parameters of macronutrient composition - protein and carbs being the differing variables, then it stands to reason that someone's body composition would be different than someone elses who ate protein rather than carbs and vice versa.

I don't even know why we're arguing this - bodybuilders have been proving it for years.

[PJim]

This sounds right to me - I don't see how it could be any other way. If you take the size of the calories and the amount of exercise out the equation and just focus on the parameters of macronutrient composition - protein and carbs being the differing variables, then it stands to reason that someone's body composition would be different than someone elses who ate protein rather than carbs and vice versa.

I don't even know why we're arguing this - bodybuilders have been proving it for years.

I'm not convinced. Lowering carb intake can slow thyroid ouput and although replacing these with protein may seem ideal, I'd of thought a more rounded spectrum of macronutrients, with say 20 percent protein and the rest roughly split between carbs and fats would be closer to maintaining hormone levels, which inevitably determine body composition.

[MindSpin]

This sounds right to me - I don't see how it could be any other way. If you take the size of the calories and the amount of exercise out the equation and just focus on the parameters of macronutrient composition - protein and carbs being the differing variables, then it stands to reason that someone's body composition would be different than someone elses who ate protein rather than carbs and vice versa.

I don't even know why we're arguing this - bodybuilders have been proving it for years.

I"m with you here.  I don't need pages of cut & paste studies to tell me otherwise, as I've been doing it for 15+ years.  In the winter I eat whatever I want, pizza, burgers, ice cream, cookies, etc. and usually only two meals in the latter part of the day.  In the summer, I UP my calories and eat only lean proteins & complex carbs over 6-8 meals.  The difference in my body composition is the only proof I need.  More calories of the right foods and I get super lean.

The cool part is, that science is finally catching up to what bodybuilders have known for years, and Connelly is at the forefront of this.

[James28]

I didn't follow the debate, have no idea who Adonis or the usual characters are, but I have 12 years of training experience to draw on. I'll just summarise my thoughts are it's gym time soon.

As I understand from skimming through the thread, Adonis advocate that it's possible to dial down or not gain fat whilst just keeping an eye on your calories, regardless which source they may be from? I hope I got that bit right otherwise the rest of my post may not make sense.

I started training at 16 and trained my ass off until 22. I ate a typical bodybuilder diet with any 'cheat' food once a year, at most. I was going to take Dorian's crown man, can't eat shit! Naturally my gains was great, I carried a good amount of muscle. I put it down to a good diet, hard training and enough sleep.

Then I grew a brain, went to university and jacked in heavy training. I started gorging myself on all those foods I could never eat for years and gaine a lot of fat.

I entered the workforce and found little time to eat, but still kept on eating shit, just in fewer quantities. Can you imagine my surprise as my weight start dropping and stabilised at 211 pounds on my 6'3 frame. It's been there the past few years, only varying during holidays when I eat more. It always drop back around the 211 mark without me doing much cardio or any training at all. These days I go to the gym and hit the weights, but nothing heavy and only because it's such a habit and gets me away from the nagging girlfriend for a bit

In short, 50% of my diet is shit, 50% decent and I'm not gaining any fat.

Maybe Adonis got a point?

[ManBearPig...]

I didn't follow the debate, have no idea who Adonis or the usual characters are, but I have 12 years of training experience to draw on. I'll just summarise my thoughts are it's gym time soon.

As I understand from skimming through the thread, Adonis advocate that it's possible to dial down or not gain fat whilst just keeping an eye on your calories, regardless which source they may be from? I hope I got that bit right otherwise the rest of my post may not make sense.

I started training at 16 and trained my ass off until 22. I ate a typical bodybuilder diet with any 'cheat' food once a year, at most. I was going to take Dorian's crown man, can't eat shit! Naturally my gains was great, I carried a good amount of muscle. I put it down to a good diet, hard training and enough sleep.

Then I grew a brain, went to university and jacked in heavy training. I started gorging myself on all those foods I could never eat for years and gaine a lot of fat.

I entered the workforce and found little time to eat, but still kept on eating shit, just in fewer quantities. Can you imagine my surprise as my weight start dropping and stabilised at 211 pounds on my 6'3 frame. It's been there the past few years, only varying during holidays when I eat more. It always drop back around the 211 mark without me doing much cardio or any training at all. These days I go to the gym and hit the weights, but nothing heavy and only because it's such a habit and gets me away from the nagging girlfriend for a bit

In short, 50% of my diet is shit, 50% decent and I'm not gaining any fat.

Maybe Adonis got a point?

congrats, you lost a ton of muscle and scale weight, and you think you've made progress.

[James28]

congrats, you lost a ton of muscle and scale weight, and you think you've made progress.

Perhaps my post did not drop enough hints. I stopped caring for muscle, any muscle. I'm fairly lean now and still have people telling me, 'I can see you used to train many years ago'. I look nothing like a body builder wearing close and nothing like one without. I care now only for not getting fat. My post was also not aimed to boast about my progress as I obviously not didn't make any.

[MindSpin]

It is absolutely shocking to me how many "body builders" on this site are talking about losing/gaining "weight".  I thought that was something only fat housewives talked about.  It is this obsession with "weight" that fuels the worthless diet industry.  "Lose 15lbs in just 10 days!" is the typical BS you see on all these magic pills and programs.  Never mind that all the weight is water or that the more egregious ones cause you to go into starvation mode resulting in muscle wasting and fat preservation.

If you want "lose weight", I suppose that caloric restriction is a good, albeit short-term way to lose "weight", that is until you rebound and gain it all back.

If you want to lose "fat" and preserve "muscle", forget about eating brownies, pizza and donuts.

[Moen]

Mindspin, you're saying you ate more kcals per day when losing fat than when not losing fat (albeit from different sources), even with extra energy expenditure from TEF and cardio etc calculated in? Completely defying thermodynamics?

The part in bold is very important for the interpretation since this is something that seems to be lost in translation, Adonis is not saying protein is not more thermogenic than the two other macronutrients since it obviously IS and like someone else said, in the long run the difference in TEF WILL add up.

If you want to compare both strategies you have to calibrate for the higher TEF of a Connelly diet.

However you seem very convinced and I'm gladly awaiting the research, if you guys can prove this it would indeed be a shocker to say the least.

What do you think of Connelly's current recommendation to change as many meals as possible to whey shake only meals?

[Moen]

bump

[Smanjh]

It is absolutely shocking to me how many "body builders" on this site are talking about losing/gaining "weight".  I thought that was something only fat housewives talked about.  It is this obsession with "weight" that fuels the worthless diet industry.  "Lose 15lbs in just 10 days!" is the typical BS you see on all these magic pills and programs.  Never mind that all the weight is water or that the more egregious ones cause you to go into starvation mode resulting in muscle wasting and fat preservation.

If you want "lose weight", I suppose that caloric restriction is a good, albeit short-term way to lose "weight", that is until you rebound and gain it all back.

If you want to lose "fat" and preserve "muscle", forget about eating brownies, pizza and donuts.

No one is saying to eat nothing but carbs and minimize protein. We are saying to get enough protein, and the rest doesn't matter, as long as you are in a deficit.

What is shocking to me is that the calorie restriction on a fat loss plan for 'body builders' is not priority number one. I mean, look at some of the people who follow the high calories specially timed diets. You have genetic anomalies, but you also have (mostly) over nourished guys who have a very hard time losing fat.

Or they do tons and tons of cardio, when they could have just cut calories. Cardio may come into play eventually, but hours upon hours every week are not beneficial for anything except wasting time.

I am supportive of the following:

Getting the protein you need. Anymore than this is useless. Experiment with it, try .5 grams per pound or less, then try 1 gram per pound, then 1.5, then 2, etc. Keep records and see where you fall in place.

Multivitamin for security: Not necessary for the most part, but it doesn't hurt and will make up for any deficiencies.

Supplements like creatine and whatever herbal stuff you like. I may break with Adonis on the supplementation scheme (I take ALOT of shit), but I fully agree with his diet. Most guys screw up with training and never taper. This, 99.9% of the time, is the problem, and eating more will not compensate for the systematic fatigue-only make you fat.

[The Ugly]

No one is saying to eat nothing but carbs and minimize protein. We are saying to get enough protein, and the rest doesn't matter, as long as you are in a deficit.

What is shocking to me is that the calorie restriction on a fat loss plan for 'body builders' is not priority number one. I mean, look at some of the people who follow the high calories specially timed diets. You have genetic anomalies, but you also have (mostly) over nourished guys who have a very hard time losing fat.

Or they do tons and tons of cardio, when they could have just cut calories. Cardio may come into play eventually, but hours upon hours every week are not beneficial for anything except wasting time.

I am supportive of the following:

Getting the protein you need. Anymore than this is useless. Experiment with it, try .5 grams per pound or less, then try 1 gram per pound, then 1.5, then 2, etc. Keep records and see where you fall in place.

Multivitamin for security: Not necessary for the most part, but it doesn't hurt and will make up for any deficiencies.

Supplements like creatine and whatever herbal stuff you like. I may break with Adonis on the supplementation scheme (I take ALOT of shit), but I fully agree with his diet. Most guys screw up with training and never taper. This, 99.9% of the time, is the problem, and eating more will not compensate for the systematic fatigue-only make you fat.

Spoken like a true Adonis.