Text of Arizona’s Anti-Illegal Immigration Law

[240 is Back]

"The cops can't just decide to stop and detain anyone and everyone that looks Mexican for no reason and force them to prove they are in the country legally. "


IF that is true - then I'm all for the bill.  However, I cannot understand why so many repubslicans have said the law violates rights of legal americans.  And it seems so vague as to if cops can gaffle you while you're just standing around on the corner.

So they 100% CANNOT ask you to prove citizenship if you're not driving a car?  Is this the absolute case?

[Soul Crusher]

Its called FEAR. 

[loco]

"The cops can't just decide to stop and detain anyone and everyone that looks Mexican for no reason and force them to prove they are in the country legally. "


IF that is true - then I'm all for the bill.  However, I cannot understand why so many repubslicans have said the law violates rights of legal americans.  And it seems so vague as to if cops can gaffle you while you're just standing around on the corner.

So they 100% CANNOT ask you to prove citizenship if you're not driving a car?  Is this the absolute case?

That's a very good point that had not been brought up.  What about American citizens who look and sound Mexican and do not have a drivers license?  Are all American citizens required to have a drivers license?

[240 is Back]

"So they 100% CANNOT ask you to prove citizenship if you're not driving a car?  Is this the absolute case?"

Anyone?  Bueller? 

[tonymctones]

Absolutely.  If I'm driving drunk then I deserve it.  But if an American citizen is detained until he can prove his US citizenship simply because he looks or sounds Mexican, that is not his fault and it is wrong and unfair.  You probably don't look or sound Mexican.  So you have nothing to worry about.

what if youre not drunk this isnt any different loco....

its not your fault that you were pulled over for drunk driving and you werent drunk...

Im am mistaken for being mexican quite often...

this law doesnt say it can stop you b/c you look mexican or sound mexican...READ THE LAW!!!!!!!

[tonymctones]

"The cops can't just decide to stop and detain anyone and everyone that looks Mexican for no reason and force them to prove they are in the country legally. "


IF that is true - then I'm all for the bill.  However, I cannot understand why so many repubslicans have said the law violates rights of legal americans.  And it seems so vague as to if cops can gaffle you while you're just standing around on the corner.

So they 100% CANNOT ask you to prove citizenship if you're not driving a car?  Is this the absolute case?

goodness your an idiot...can you break the law outside of your car? well if they are investigating another crime outside your car and they have suspicion to believe youre illegal they can request papers...

[loco]

what if youre not drunk this isnt any different loco....

its not your fault that you were pulled over for drunk driving and you werent drunk...

Im am mistaken for being mexican quite often...

this law doesnt say it can stop you b/c you look mexican or sound mexican...READ THE LAW!!!!!!!

Do they book people in the US until they prove that they are not drunk?  I thought they just did a test on the street.  They do book people they mistake for illegal immigrants.  Happens all the time.

And I know what the law says.  I never said they can stop you for looking Mexican.  I said, after stopping you for speeding, they can book you and deport you for looking Mexican.  They've done this before.

[loco]

goodness your an idiot...can you break the law outside of your car? well if they are investigating another crime outside your car and they have suspicion to believe youre illegal they can request papers...

Cops come up to people, usually brown and black people, walking down the street or sidewalk and ask questions, even ask for id sometimes.  People complain about this all the time.

[tonymctones]

Do they book people in the US until they prove that they are not drunk?  I thought they just did a test on the street.  They do book people they mistake for illegal immigrants.  Happens all the time.

And I know what the law says.  I never said they can stop you for looking Mexican.  I said, after stopping you for speeding, they can book you and deport you for looking Mexican.  They've done this before.

they do if you cannot prove youre not drunk or refuse to prove it...LOL bro again what law targeting illegals would you be ok with? give me one...

[tonymctones]

Cops come up to people, usually brown and black people, walking down the street or sidewalk and ask questions, even ask for id sometimes.  People complain about this all the time.

sure it does, GENERALLY its in the process of investigating a complaint or crime but thats the way it is...will be the same with or without this bill...

what law would you be ok with targeting illegals?

[loco]

they do if you cannot prove youre not drunk or refuse to prove it...LOL bro again what law targeting illegals would you be ok with? give me one...

Why would they think that you are drunk in the first place?

[tonymctones]

Why would they think that you are drunk in the first place?

b/c they had resonable suspicion under the law...

[loco]

b/c they had resonable suspicion under the law...

Which has nothing to do with racial profiling.  Arizona's new immigration law does.

[George Whorewell]

Based on the language of the law that was posted in this thread the cops cannot randomly ask people to prove that they are legal for no reason. The people who wrote this law had to know that constructing the legislation any other way would 100% guarantee that the law would be repealed on equal protection, due process and first amendment grounds (in addition to numerous federal civil rights statutes).

That is why the  language/ concept of a "lawful" interaction with the police in the Arizona law is so important. The police cannot lawfully detain someone solely because of their race under any circumstances. That's the law of the land in all 50 states according to the Constitution. In order to create a lawful dialogue the cops have to have a reason to stop you. Speeding, public drunkenness, a 911 call where the suspect fits the persons description, or reasonable suspicion that a criminal act is in the process of being committed etc.

[Soul Crusher]

GW - I tried explaining this to these guys, but I give them slack since they never took Law School level Crim Pro like we did. 

[tonymctones]

Which has nothing to do with racial profiling.  Arizona's new immigration law does.

how do you know this? they havent even constructed what reasonable suspicion is under this law?

[loco]

Based on the language of the law that was posted in this thread the cops cannot randomly ask people to prove that they are legal for no reason. The people who wrote this law had to know that constructing the legislation any other way would 100% guarantee that the law would be repealed on equal protection, due process and first amendment grounds (in addition to numerous federal civil rights statutes).

That is why the  language/ concept of a "lawful" interaction with the police in the Arizona law is so important. The police cannot lawfully detain someone solely because of their race under any circumstances. That's the law of the land in all 50 states according to the Constitution. In order to create a lawful dialogue the cops have to have a reason to stop you. Speeding, public drunkenness, a 911 call where the suspect fits the persons description, or reasonable suspicion that a criminal act is in the process of being committed etc.

Yes, I understand.  But once they have stopped you for whatever reason, they can and they will detain/deport an American citizen who looks Mexican and fails to produce proof of citizenship.  It is already happening, and this new law just opens the door for this to happen many times more.  Read the articles I posted on the Mexican Repatriation thread.

[tonymctones]

Yes, I understand.  But once they have stopped you for whatever reason, they can and they will detain/deport an American citizen who looks Mexican and fails to produce proof of citizenship.  It is already happening, and this new law just opens the door for this to happen many times more.  Read the articles I posted on the Mexican Repatriation thread.

LOL you act like if they cant prove citizenship at that very instant they get dragged from their car and tossed across the border...

read the bill there are alot of checks and balances that are in place to assure that citizens are not deported...

you think that ICE should be disbanded? after all im sure that over the course of their tenure they have certainly deported someone who was a legal US citizen...

[240 is Back]

a pro-bill sheriff on Hardball just sold the bill pretty well.

He said if the person doesn't have an ID, he calls in ICE and they start deportation, it's that simple.

He was doing a great job explaining how the bill will help, said he wouldn't abuse it, etc.

[Soul Crusher]

a pro-bill sheriff on Hardball just sold the bill pretty well.

He said if the person doesn't have an ID, he calls in ICE and they start deportation, it's that simple.

He was doing a great job explaining how the bill will help, said he wouldn't abuse it, etc.

So now you are in favor of it because you saw a pro-law guy on MSNBC but were previously against it when you saw an anti-law person on FOX? 


I got it.      

[loco]

LOL you act like if they cant prove citizenship at that very instant they get dragged from their car and tossed across the border...

read the bill there are alot of checks and balances that are in place to assure that citizens are not deported...

you think that ICE should be disbanded? after all im sure that over the course of their tenure they have certainly deported someone who was a legal US citizen...

Did you not read any of the articles I posted on the Mexican Repatriation thread about the government often detaining and deporting American citizens?  And you are okay with this?

What gives a cop "reasonable suspicion" that somebody is an illegal immigrant?

[240 is Back]

I didn't say I was in favor of it.  I said he did a good job presenting his side of it. 

[George Whorewell]

Did you not read any of the articles I posted on the Mexican Repatriation thread about the government often detaining and deporting American citizens?  And you are okay with this?

What gives a cop "reasonable suspicion" that somebody is an illegal immigrant?

Dude you are totally missing the point here. The cops cannot randomly stop people who look Mexican and force them to prove they are here legally. Reasonable suspiscion is the burden of proof that police need to detain someone or stop them to ask them questions (lawful interaction)-- it is not the standard for investigating whether or not somebody is an illegal alien. To arrest someone for any offense the cops need to establish probable cause. So in summation- RS to stop someone if cops suspect a crime is being committed, PC to arrest someone if the cops reasonably believe that the person has committed a crime. Keep in mind once again, that looking Mexican cannot serve as reasonable suspicion for detaining someone to inquire about their legal status.

Furthermore, you make it sound like deportation proceedings take place within 10 seconds of the cops stoping someone. Trust me our government is incapable of doing things that efficently. If someone was wrongfully detained, then they will have the opportunity to prove it.

[Skip8282]

Did you not read any of the articles I posted on the Mexican Repatriation thread about the government often detaining and deporting American citizens?  And you are okay with this?

What gives a cop "reasonable suspicion" that somebody is an illegal immigrant?

It seems to me you're looking at the wrong part of the system.  Of course we should never deport an American citizen, anymore than we should wrongfully convict somebody of a crime.  But, that doesn't mean cops shouldn't ask a question, detain, and investigate just as they would if they suspected me of being a bank robber.

Now, if ICE is wrongfully deporting people that the cops bring to their attention, then we need to address that issue with ICE and put in sufficient safeguards. 

But, I see absolutely no reason why cops, our first line of defense, shouldn't be allowed to get the ball rolling.

[tonymctones]

a pro-bill sheriff on Hardball just sold the bill pretty well.

He said if the person doesn't have an ID, he calls in ICE and they start deportation, it's that simple.

He was doing a great job explaining how the bill will help, said he wouldn't abuse it, etc.

what the fuk did you think was going to happen?...you dont have proof so they drag you out of your car, hog tie you and drag you to the border stopping every 15 mins to sodomize you and when you finally reach the border the simply throw you over

nat enq. mentality is a curse i tell you