Author Topic: Jeb Bush speaks out against Ariz. law  (Read 3524 times)

Straw Man

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Re: Jeb Bush speaks out against Ariz. law
« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2010, 07:23:46 PM »
all valid points but what does that have to do with the primary reason that people come to this country illegally?

tonymctones

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Re: Jeb Bush speaks out against Ariz. law
« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2010, 07:31:47 PM »
I already said that was part of the equation... ;)

which country would you rather be homeless in straw?

if you know that you can sneak into the states have a baby and they cant kick you out...you can recieve welfare...what would you do?

its assinine to think that illegals would stop coming here if they couldnt get work...even if there were only a few companies hiring illegals which will be the case b/c like I said you wont be able to eliminate all hiring of illegals...

Soul Crusher

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Re: Jeb Bush speaks out against Ariz. law
« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2010, 07:39:50 PM »
Many are here to gang bang and sell drugs and leech off the system.

Straw Man

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Re: Jeb Bush speaks out against Ariz. law
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2010, 09:37:04 PM »
I already said that was part of the equation... ;)

which country would you rather be homeless in straw?

if you know that you can sneak into the states have a baby and they cant kick you out...you can recieve welfare...what would you do?

its assinine to think that illegals would stop coming here if they couldnt get work...even if there were only a few companies hiring illegals which will be the case b/c like I said you wont be able to eliminate all hiring of illegals...

is this why illegal people are here?


Straw Man

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Re: Jeb Bush speaks out against Ariz. law
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2010, 09:46:43 PM »
Many are here to gang bang and sell drugs and leech off the system.

really ?

here's an idea

why don't we just arrest them for the gangbanging and selling drugs

240 is Back

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Re: Jeb Bush speaks out against Ariz. law
« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2010, 11:25:42 PM »
yes he really said that... hilarious... pull a hispanic out of line buying ice cream with his kid.  LMAO.

Obama is SO going after the hispanic vote on this one. 

Soul Crusher

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Re: Jeb Bush speaks out against Ariz. law
« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2010, 03:25:52 AM »
I wonder why 240.

loco

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Re: Jeb Bush speaks out against Ariz. law
« Reply #32 on: April 29, 2010, 05:30:44 AM »
(This is not meant soley for you straw as Ive heard this time and time again since this law was passed)

OMG would you ppl please stop parroting that...

educate yourselves on the issue the entire issue with illegals

First you will never EVER EVER EVVEEERRRRR be able to eliminate work for illegals...you may be able to limit it but not eliminate it

what if they have a baby in the states? why leave when they can recieve welfare?

what of those who dont work? dont work legally?

there are self sustainging communiteies of illegals

what of those that are living with legal immigrants?

that is simply one part of a multiple part approach of which finding the illegals in society and deporting them is another...


"According to Princeton political scientist Douglas Massey, the number of illegal immigrants dropped by 100,000 in Arizona over just the last year and has fallen from 12.6 million in 2008 to 10.8 million in 2009 countrywide, as the recession means fewer jobs for immigrants and U.S. citizens alike."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100427/ts_ynews/ynews_ts1812


What is the new law going to solve if you continue to hire illegals?  Even if 100,000 illegals in Arizona get deported as a result of this law, they'll be back.  You are only wasting money and resources.  Detaining and deporting illegals is not cheap, and they'll be back.

tonymctones

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Re: Jeb Bush speaks out against Ariz. law
« Reply #33 on: April 29, 2010, 06:56:33 AM »
is this why illegal people are here?


some yes...

tonymctones

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Re: Jeb Bush speaks out against Ariz. law
« Reply #34 on: April 29, 2010, 06:58:46 AM »

"According to Princeton political scientist Douglas Massey, the number of illegal immigrants dropped by 100,000 in Arizona over just the last year and has fallen from 12.6 million in 2008 to 10.8 million in 2009 countrywide, as the recession means fewer jobs for immigrants and U.S. citizens alike."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100427/ts_ynews/ynews_ts1812


What is the new law going to solve if you continue to hire illegals?  Even if 100,000 illegals in Arizona get deported as a result of this law, they'll be back.  You are only wasting money and resources.  Detaining and deporting illegals is not cheap, and they'll be back.
youre misunderstanding again loco...

I and as far as Im can see nobody is saying not to go after the companies hiring them. What we are saying is that only going after the companies hiring them will not eliminate the problem for the reasons ive listed and many others. You seem to only want to go after the comanies that hire them but again that alone will not eliminate the problem just like this law alone will not eliminate the problem...

Soul Crusher

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Re: Jeb Bush speaks out against Ariz. law
« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2010, 06:58:54 AM »
I'm sure MS13 is here to pick lettuce and clean toilets.

loco

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Re: Jeb Bush speaks out against Ariz. law
« Reply #36 on: April 29, 2010, 07:17:23 AM »
333386,
Why do you bring up MS13?  That gang originated in LA, then spread to Central America.  Most members in the US are probably native born American citizens.  Immigration laws are not the way to deal with MS13.  You already have laws to deal with domestic criminals.  It's totally off the subject. 

Soul Crusher

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Re: Jeb Bush speaks out against Ariz. law
« Reply #37 on: April 29, 2010, 07:21:43 AM »
Not all illegals are here to work.  Many are here to commit crimes, deal drugs, leech off the system, drop anchor bombs in the maternity wards, and otherwise scam the system. 

I have a friend who is a NARC Detective and deals with tons of mexican and south american gangs littered with illegals and he told me this is exactly the type of law he would need to rid the streets of these vermin since when he arrests themfor dealing drugs, he cant inquire on their immigration situation. 

 

loco

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Re: Jeb Bush speaks out against Ariz. law
« Reply #38 on: April 29, 2010, 07:24:07 AM »
Not all illegals are here to work.  Many are here to commit crimes, deal drugs, leech off the system, drop anchor bombs in the maternity wards, and otherwise scam the system.  

I have a friend who is a NARC Detective and deals with tons of mexican and south american gangs littered with illegals and he told me this is exactly the type of law he would need to rid the streets of these vermin since when he arrests themfor dealing drugs, he cant inquire on their immigration situation.  

 

Great!  Those particular illegal immigrants are giving authorities plenty of reason to arrest and deport them.  There are plenty of laws already in the books to deal with them.

The problem the US is having with illegal immigration is with the hundreds of thousands who are not committing those crimes, the ones that are being hired by Americans.  Their only crime is being in the US illegally.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Jeb Bush speaks out against Ariz. law
« Reply #39 on: April 29, 2010, 07:26:02 AM »
He cant do that since local police are banned from inquiring on the immigration situation.  Its only once they go to jail or through the detainment process that a possible "immigration detainer" is put on the suspect abnd even then that really doesnt do anything since they get bail and take off. 

George Whorewell

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Re: Jeb Bush speaks out against Ariz. law
« Reply #40 on: April 29, 2010, 07:28:54 AM »
Loco your not very up on your gang history are you?

MS13 was  started by a bunch of El Salvadorians in LA ( most were here illegally) that had fought as left wing guerrellas in the military coup that happened in El Salvador during the early 80's. There have been numerous stories posted on this board outlining how some cities ( like San Francisco) have actually arrested MS13 members that were in the country illegally but refused to turn them over to ICE and eventually let them go. There have been dozens of cases where deported MS 13 members have snuck back across the border and arrested again. In El Salvador today MS 13 is almost as powerful as the Central government of the country itself. They are also one of the most powerful gangs in the US prison system and they work hand in hand with the Mexican Cartels to bring drugs and weapons into this country. Dealing with an extremely violent international gun and drug trafficking criminal enterprise with a large number of members being in the US illegally through domestic criminal law is a stupid idea. It's almost as stupid as using criminal domestic law to deal with terrorism.  

loco

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Re: Jeb Bush speaks out against Ariz. law
« Reply #41 on: April 29, 2010, 07:29:07 AM »
He cant do that since local police are banned from inquiring on the immigration situation.  Its only once they go to jail or through the detainment process that a possible "immigration detainer" is put on the suspect abnd even then that really doesnt do anything since they get bail and take off. 

All those crimes you mention are pretty serious.  If they manage to get out of jail before their status in the country is verified, there are bigger problems with your legal system than the immigration problem itself.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Jeb Bush speaks out against Ariz. law
« Reply #42 on: April 29, 2010, 07:31:20 AM »
Yes, but if they were not here in the first place it would not be as bad.  Sort of like this stupid debate between Whorealdo and BOR.  Whorealdo is cluelsss.


loco

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Re: Jeb Bush speaks out against Ariz. law
« Reply #43 on: April 29, 2010, 07:32:37 AM »
Loco your not very up on your gang history are you?

MS13 was  started by a bunch of El Salvadorians in LA ( most were here illegally) that had fought as left wing guerrellas in the military coup that happened in El Salvador during the early 80's. There have been numerous stories posted on this board outlining how some cities ( like San Francisco) have actually arrested MS13 members that were in the country illegally but refused to turn them over to ICE and eventually let them go. There have been dozens of cases where deported MS 13 members have snuck back across the border and arrested again. In El Salvador today MS 13 is almost as powerful as the Central government of the country itself. They are also one of the most powerful gangs in the US prison system and they work hand in hand with the Mexican Cartels to bring drugs and weapons into this country. Dealing with an extremely violent international gun and drug trafficking criminal enterprise with a large number of members being in the US illegally through domestic criminal law is a stupid idea. It's almost as stupid as using criminal domestic law to deal with terrorism.  

As of today, how many MS13 members in the US are there illegally?

After deporting illegal immigrants belonging to MS13, what keeps them from coming right back?

George Whorewell

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Re: Jeb Bush speaks out against Ariz. law
« Reply #44 on: April 29, 2010, 07:36:31 AM »
Hang on, let me pull an exact number out of thin air. ::) Everything I posted comes directly off of that TV show gangland on the History Channel and a few news clippings lol. I don't have the exact numbers availible, although Im sure the FBI has stats like that on file.

And with respect to your second question, the answer is nothing! That is exactly why the Feds should STFU about the Arizona law and try doing their jobs better.

tonymctones

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Re: Jeb Bush speaks out against Ariz. law
« Reply #45 on: April 29, 2010, 07:43:11 AM »
333386,
Why do you bring up MS13?  That gang originated in LA, then spread to Central America.  Most members in the US are probably native born American citizens.  Immigration laws are not the way to deal with MS13.  You already have laws to deal with domestic criminals.  It's totally off the subject. 
ms13 originated in LA from salvadoran immigrants... :-X

loco

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Re: Jeb Bush speaks out against Ariz. law
« Reply #46 on: April 29, 2010, 07:43:21 AM »
For the record, I agree that every country should deport illegal immigrants and keep them out.  It is lawful Latino American citizens, and the potential for a police state that I'm worried about with Arizona's new law.

About MS13, I feel for you guys!  You've got a serious problem:

Gang Uses Deportation to Its Advantage to Flourish in U.S.

In the last 12 years, U.S. immigration authorities have logged more than 50,000 deportations of immigrants with criminal records to Central America, including untold numbers of gang members like Cruz-Mendoza.

But a deportation policy aimed in part at breaking up a Los Angeles street gang has backfired and helped spread it across Central America and back into other parts of the United States. Newly organized cells in El Salvador have returned to establish strongholds in metropolitan Washington, D.C., and other U.S. cities. Prisons in El Salvador have become nerve centers, authorities say, where deported leaders from Los Angeles communicate with gang cliques across the United States.

A gang that once numbered a few thousand and was involved in street violence and turf battles has morphed into an international network with as many as 50,000 members, the most hard-core engaging in extortion, immigrant smuggling and racketeering. In the last year, the federal government has brought racketeering cases against MS-13 members in Long Island, N.Y., and southern Maryland.

Across the country, more than 700 MS-13 members have been arrested this year under a new enforcement campaign that U.S. immigration authorities say will lead to more serious cases and longer sentences for gang members before they are deported.

"Ultimately, our job here is to enforce the immigration laws and then remove [criminal gang members] from the country," said John P. Torres, the acting director overseeing detention and removals for the Department of Homeland Security's Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency. But for a sizable number of MS-13 members, deportation is little more than a taxpayer-financed visit with friends and family before returning north.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-gang30oct30,0,7353881,full.story

tonymctones

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Re: Jeb Bush speaks out against Ariz. law
« Reply #47 on: April 29, 2010, 07:44:34 AM »
As of today, how many MS13 members in the US are there illegally?

After deporting illegal immigrants belonging to MS13, what keeps them from coming right back?
EXACTLY THE POINT WERE TRYING TO MAKE!!!!!!!!!

you need to secure the borders AS WELL as deport illegals AS WELL as go after companies that hire them...

loco

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Re: Jeb Bush speaks out against Ariz. law
« Reply #48 on: April 29, 2010, 07:45:37 AM »
ms13 originated in LA from salvadoran immigrants... :-X

Okay, I was wrong about hem being native born American citizens.  But were they illegal immigrants, green card holders, or Naturalized American citizens?

tonymctones

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Re: Jeb Bush speaks out against Ariz. law
« Reply #49 on: April 29, 2010, 07:46:42 AM »
how do you figure we deport illegals if youre against us asking for papers during a lawful investigation of a crime?