Author Topic: What were the founding fathers reasonings behind this?  (Read 7568 times)

Wiggs

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What were the founding fathers reasonings behind this?
« on: April 30, 2010, 12:08:38 PM »
“No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President;”

There is only one exception such as in John McCain's (Born in Panama, his father was an Admiral in the U.S. Navy) ... "They based this clause on the following; “Congress, in which a number of Framers sat, provided in the Naturalization act of 1790 that ’‘the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond the sea, . . . shall be considered as natural born citizens. . . .’’ 96 This phrasing followed the literal terms of British statutes, beginning in 1350, under which persons born abroad, whose parents were both British subjects, would enjoy the same rights of inheritance as those born in England; beginning with laws in 1709 and 1731, these statutes expressly provided that such persons were natural-born subjects of the crown.”


My feeling is that if we give people the option to be American Citizens, we should give them all the rights.  Give me one valid reason they shouldn't have the right to be?  There are millions of foreign born citizens there are worth more than the natural born pieces of shite we have here.  I say let the people vote on it.  Give them a chance and of the people say no, then let it be. 

This country was built with the hands of immigrants and I find there to be no valid reason today that foreign born citizens should not be able to hold the highest office of this great land. 
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JOHN MATRIX

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Re: What were the founding fathers reasonings behind this?
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2010, 12:12:16 PM »
here come the right wing nuts guns blazing against the damn dirty messicans and negros.

emn1964

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Re: What were the founding fathers reasonings behind this?
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2010, 12:14:36 PM »
Sir, you have come to the right place for Consitutional law discussions...

Fury

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Re: What were the founding fathers reasonings behind this?
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2010, 12:15:23 PM »
Sir, you have come to the right place for Consitutional law discussions...

:D

Getbig - where the average poster has an IQ well over 45 170.

NCNPC29

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Re: What were the founding fathers reasonings behind this?
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2010, 12:18:28 PM »
:D

Getbig - where the average poster has an IQ well over 45 170, millions in the bank, bangs supermodels on a daily basis and benches 405 for sets of 20.

fixed for accuracy

JOHN MATRIX

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Re: What were the founding fathers reasonings behind this?
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2010, 12:18:47 PM »
WHUUUURRRZZZZ THE BURTH CURTIFICATE???????


THEY TOOK RRRRRRRR JOOOOOBBBSSSSS!!!!!

Fury

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Re: What were the founding fathers reasonings behind this?
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2010, 12:19:58 PM »
WHUUUURRRZZZZ THE BURTH CURTIFICATE???????


THEY TOOK RRRRRRRR JOOOOOBBBSSSSS!!!!!

You're really no better than the far-right lunatics. Of course you think you are, and that's what makes it so funny.  :D

Wiggs

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Re: What were the founding fathers reasonings behind this?
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2010, 12:21:13 PM »
Sir, you have come to the right place for Consitutional law discussions...

I understand only a handful of people might be able to intellectually defend or agree and make valid arguments and these I wish to hear from.
So, 240, uberman, Wavelength, Unsung, guys like this that have half a brain? It doesn't matter if you are American or not.  Pick a side and defend.

Guys like Chaos in the 80-95 IQ range please get someone to explain what I wrote.
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Option D

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Re: What were the founding fathers reasonings behind this?
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2010, 12:21:41 PM »
fixed for accuracy

you forgot Cage Fighting Legend.  and bodyfat of 0.00000000001

Fury

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Re: What were the founding fathers reasonings behind this?
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2010, 12:22:29 PM »
I understand only a handful of people might be able to intellectually defend or agree and make valid arguments and these I wish to hear from.
So, 240, uberman, Wavelength, Unsung, guys like this that have half a brain? It doesn't matter if you are American or not.  Pick a side and defend.

Guys like Chaos in the 80-95 IQ range please get someone to explain what I wrote.

Uberman has half a brain? That guy can't even spell or punctuate correctly and yet you think he's smart? Now I've seen it all. ::)

jaejonna

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Re: What were the founding fathers reasonings behind this?
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2010, 12:22:47 PM »
you forgot Cage Fighting Legend.  and bodyfat of 0.00000000001
that about sums it up .....
L

jwb

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Re: What were the founding fathers reasonings behind this?
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2010, 12:27:39 PM »
the leader (we call it premier) of our state in australia is american born... she aint bad looking either.

JOHN MATRIX

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Re: What were the founding fathers reasonings behind this?
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2010, 12:45:50 PM »
You're really no better than the far-right lunatics. Of course you think you are, and that's what makes it so funny.  :D

THEY.....TOOK....RRRRR...JEEEEEEEEEEEEEBSSS!!!!!!!!

Wiggs

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Re: What were the founding fathers reasonings behind this?
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2010, 12:47:35 PM »
Uberman has half a brain? That guy can't even spell or punctuate correctly and yet you think he's smart? Now I've seen it all. ::)

I don't think he's American.  I know plenty of intelligent people that aren't the best spellers.  I disagree with 90% of what he says but it's clear he has something going on upstairs...

Fatpanda and Tbombz get in on this also.
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Fury

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Re: What were the founding fathers reasonings behind this?
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2010, 12:50:47 PM »
THEY.....TOOK....RRRRR...JEEEEEEEEEEEEEBSSS!!!!!!!!

Almost every civilized country in the world vigorously enforces their immigration laws. Why should America be any different?

I'm guessing you don't care about the fact that there have been 1,000+ kidnappings in Phoenix alone over the last 2 years. Never mind, I forgot that I'm talking to a far-left lunatic. Far-left, far-right. Both suck.  :D

Tre

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Re: What were the founding fathers reasonings behind this?
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2010, 12:54:38 PM »

There's a difference between rights and privileges.

We give naturalized citizens - not resident aliens - the right to vote. 

But only a natural born citizen may have the privilege of becoming President.


JOHN MATRIX

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Re: What were the founding fathers reasonings behind this?
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2010, 12:56:37 PM »
well i think once you become a citizen you do get 'all the rights', am i right?
except for the ability to be president, is that what you are referring to?

the answer is of course anyone who is a full citizen of the US should be 'allowed to'. theres no legitimate reason why not -considering that america is not a nation-state but rather at its root just a mix of immigrants from all over the world.

the only reason for this pointless technicality in there is xenophobia/racism

if obama or mccain or any other obviously lifelong american citizen were technically born somewhere else what the fuck difference does it make?
what if it came out that ronald reagan was actually born in mexico or something, what would that change? what would the right wing nuts say to that?

WHUUURRRZZZ THE BURTH CURTIFICATE??????
 ::)

Wiggs

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Re: What were the founding fathers reasonings behind this?
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2010, 12:57:11 PM »
Almost every civilized country in the world vigorously enforces their immigration laws. Why should America be any different?

I'm guessing you don't care about the fact that there have been 1,000+ kidnappings in Phoenix alone over the last 2 years. Never mind, I forgot that I'm talking to a far-left lunatic. Far-left, far-right. Both suck.  :D

I agree with what Arizona did.  The Feds will never do anything whether Obama or McCain in Office. The states have every right to do what they're doing as long as no laws are being broken. I think other states should follow.

The main rebuttals I hear from people are: Arizona doesn't have any other crime to worry about?  That's racial profiling.
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Wiggs

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Re: What were the founding fathers reasonings behind this?
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2010, 01:01:12 PM »
There's a difference between rights and privileges.

We give naturalized citizens - not resident aliens - the right to vote.  

But only a natural born citizen may have the privilege of becoming President.



Ok...What was the point of what you said?  No one is talking about Resident Aliens.  We are talking about Resident Aliens that become American citizens, they can vote and have every right you and I do as naturalized citizens EXCEPT running for president.
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Wiggs

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Re: What were the founding fathers reasonings behind this?
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2010, 01:03:36 PM »
well i think once you become a citizen you do get 'all the rights', am i right?
except for the ability to be president, is that what you are referring to?

the answer is of course anyone who is a full citizen of the US should be 'allowed to'. theres no legitimate reason why not -considering that america is not a nation-state but rather at its root just a mix of immigrants from all over the world.

the only reason for this pointless technicality in there is xenophobia/racism

if obama or mccain or any other obviously lifelong american citizen were technically born somewhere else what the fuck difference does it make?
what if it came out that ronald reagan was actually born in mexico or something, what would that change? what would the right wing nuts say to that?

WHUUURRRZZZ THE BURTH CURTIFICATE??????
 ::)


exactly.  I want to hear what someone who is against it has to say and their reasonings
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JOHN MATRIX

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Re: What were the founding fathers reasonings behind this?
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2010, 01:12:03 PM »
Almost every civilized country in the world vigorously enforces their immigration laws. Why should America be any different?

most other civilized nations are nation-states with a common ethnicity/language/culture going back hundreds of thousands of years, so it makes sense that they would want to make sure their nations retain their common heritage. i think it would actually be great if england/france/germany etc..put stringent caps/limits to their immigration. the post-WW2 mentality they all adopted where they are scared to death to do anything that might be construed as 'racist' or politically incorrect which has led to waves of foreign immigrants has, from what ive heard made their nations more shitty in general for the actual natives.

america is a completely different thing; its just an idea , a place that has no commonalities like the nations above, its started out as and has always been just a collection of immigrants. there is no native culture/heritage/race to preserve-what the country is has developed from a mixture of everything. funny thing is, once one group  got there, they tried to pretend that they were the 'real americans' and rallied against any other immigrating group. the english hated the irish,(nowadays irish-americans are considered as american as apple pie), then they both hated the italians(no one hates them now), then they all hated the chinese who came (now asians are considered a model minority), currently now everyone hates on the latin americans coming over...its just the same old bs throughout history. in 50 years they will be considered as normal and 'american' as the irish and italians and then everyone will be hating on the fucking indonesians or whoever comes over next.

I'm guessing you don't care about the fact that there have been 1,000+ kidnappings in Phoenix alone over the last 2 years. Never mind, I forgot that I'm talking to a far-left lunatic. Far-left, far-right. Both suck.  :D
what the hell does have to do with whether or not someone who was born in ___ then moved to america when he was 1 year old and lived his entire life as an american should not be able to be considered as 'american' as anyone else?


Fury

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Re: What were the founding fathers reasonings behind this?
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2010, 01:16:04 PM »


Haha, what a crock of shit. Laws are laws, regardless of the reasoning behind them. Spin it anyway you want but that's the truth, hypocrite. With regards to European countries, even with their lax immigration laws, they still vehemently enforce said laws when it comes to illegals and the like. Same goes for countries outside of Europe like Japan and Korea. This is a fact. And no, America isn't different because it happens to be a cultural mixing pot.  

And my point about the kidnappings has everything to do with the crime that has come to Arizona following illegal immigrants and the cartels, moron. And your response to that was beyond idiotic. If someone has lived here from 1 years old and made no attempt to become a citizen, then they are a retard and a leech on society. Said person probably takes full advantage of the healthcare and doesn't pay any taxes. Yes, he deserves it alright.  ::)

The irony in this entire situation is that Mexico's anti-immigration laws put America's to shame. Yet you won't hear a peep about that. We're the only country in the world expected to bend over backwards for people breaking the law. Seems to be a recurring theme.

JOHN MATRIX

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Re: What were the founding fathers reasonings behind this?
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2010, 01:28:52 PM »
Haha, what a crock of shit. Laws are laws, regardless of the reasoning behind them. Spin it anyway you want but that's the truth, hypocrite. With regards to European countries, even with their lax immigration laws, they still vehemently enforce said laws when it comes to illegals and the like. Same goes for countries outside of Europe like Japan and Korea. This is a fact. And no, America isn't different because it happens to be a cultural mixing pot.  

And my point about the kidnappings has everything to do with the crime that has come to Arizona following illegal immigrants and the cartels, moron. And your response to that was beyond idiotic. If someone has lived here from 1 years old and made no attempt to become a citizen, then they are a retard and a leech on society. Said person probably takes full advantage of the healthcare and doesn't pay any taxes. Yes, he deserves it alright.  ::)

The irony in this entire situation is that Mexico's anti-immigration laws put America's to shame. Yet you won't hear a peep about that. We're the only country in the world expected to bend over backwards for people breaking the law. Seems to be a recurring theme.

wtf are you talking about? of course they would have to become a citizen LOL thats a given.
Wiggs thread was asking why someone who is an american citizen and is as 'american' as anyone else is prohibited from being able to run for president on a the technicality that they were not born here. why are you talking about mexican cartel activity in arizona???

Fury

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Re: What were the founding fathers reasonings behind this?
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2010, 01:34:53 PM »
wtf are you talking about? of course they would have to become a citizen LOL thats a given.
Wiggs thread was asking why someone who is an american citizen and is as 'american' as anyone else is prohibited from being able to run for president on a the technicality that they were not born here. why are you talking about mexican cartel activity in arizona???

You refuted my point about the kidnappings with your sentence about someone living in America from 1 years old and not being considered an American. The fuck are you rambling about?

Then again, I might have a better time understanding the "points" you're trying to make if you hadn't constructed your post like an illiterate fourth grader. Or are you too dumb to realize that my post that was directed at Wiggs had nothing to do with his question? I'm guessing reading comprehension is hard for you if you couldn't tell that.

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Re: What were the founding fathers reasonings behind this?
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2010, 01:42:37 PM »
THEY.....TOOK....RRRRR...JEEEEEEEEEEEEEBSSS!!!!!!!!

THYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY...... TKKKKKKKKKKKK........RRR RRRRRRR.............JBBB BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB BBS