True Adonis - If a calorie is a calorie

[no one]

176 at 5`11

Hope that helps.

these were taken two years ago.

hope that helps.

[The True Adonis]

these were taken two years ago.

hope that helps.

I`m bigger (184) and Leaner (leaner than the pics posted) right now.

Hope this helps.

[Coach is Back!]

Pics on the scale or I'm calling BS.

[Van_Bilderass]

Except for maybe wavelength (I think) not one person that I can think of has ever even stepped on a bodybuilding stage yet is backing something that is totally unfounded in relation to bodybuilding. Tbombz, never competed or trained anyone to compete, TA, never competed, Wavelength, not sure if he did or not. Even if they did, I don't think they would even admit they used this type of farce for diet.

TA shows pics of himself when he was in decent shape but when asked how much he weighs it's something like 156lbs at 5'11 (or something like that) sorry dude, those arn't anywhere near bodybuilding stats in a real contest.

Here's a guy I prepped for shows recently. He ate plenty of junk on his diet while losing fat and weight. We just kept track of macros and if he wanted to eat bread or milk or fruit or even candy for his carbs he did so. Many times we ate at McDonald's after training. He just had 3 burgers with only one set of buns or whatever. Sure, he could've been plenty leaner but that is mostly a function of reducing energy intake further (and suffering more, and you'll suffer even with junk when you're not eating much). It's easier for many to track macros extremely accurately with "clean foods" but you can get ripped eating some so-called junk. And no, you don't need any crazy shit like DNP for it to work.

[Van_Bilderass]

Take a look at this article by Milos Sarcev. Although Milos would most likely take exception to many things wavelength or TA or Tbombz or myself say here, IMO he basically agrees with many things as well. And please don't say it's the insulin that's keeping all these athletes lean (couple of old-school guys mentioned as well).

Q: Last October I attended Dutch Grand Prix and had a chance to talk to many of my
bodybuilding heroes. Interestingly, once I started asking them several questions I have
realized that all of them train and diet differently. When I continued with specific
questions about contest preparation, I learned that some of the great champions (like
Dorian, Ronnie and Dennis James) count their calories and choose only several
different foods ( chicken, steak, egg whites, oatmeal, potatoes and vegetables),
while others (like Dexter Jackson, Cormier and supposedly Flex and Shawn) don’t.
What is your approach?

A: As you just noticed it is possible to use many different methods of training and dieting
and accomplish outstanding results. You mentioned the names of probably the very best
bodybuilders in the last decade and as you realized they all have different beliefs about th
contest preparation. I am actually very close to some of them, and I am very familiar with
their programs. My friend Dennis, for example, is so precise that he would not miss any
of his meals for even a minute. Does he count calories? He measures everything he eats
and he would not use a single gram (of either protein, carbohydrates or fat) more or less
than what was planned. Here is example of his exact diet for the Mr. Olympia
competition (starting 16 weeks out):

4:30 AM protein shake (mixed proteins) total of 60 grams of protein, no carbs
5:30 AM 1 HOUR CARDIO
7:30 AM 150 grams of Oatmeal (80 grams of carbs), 15 egg whites (60 grams of protein)
10 AM    Training
11 AM    Postworkout drink (60 grams of protein, 150 grams of simple carbohydrates)

12:30 PM 300 grams of rice (120 grams of carbs), 300 g of Chicken breast (70g protein)
3 PM        300 grams of rice (120 g of carbs), 300 g of Lean Steak (60 g of protein)
5 PM        300 grams of rice (120 g of carbs), 300 g of Chicken breast (70 g of protein)
6 PM     Training
7:30 PM   Postworkout drink ( 60 g protein, 150 g simple carbs)
9:30 PM   300 grams of steak (60 g protein), 250 g mixed vegetables ( 30 g of carbs)
Midnight -  Protein shake ( 60 g of protein).

Exciting, is in it? I would go crazy on this kind of diet, but Dennis actually enjoyed it!
If anyone can believe this – he complained that he was constantly hungry?!?
Dennis is just one of my fellow competitors/friends that I design diet for. What I usually
do is estimate their energy intake/expenditure and than according to amount of time they
have until the contest – design diet that would get them in contest shape couple of weeks
before they have to step on the stage. Of course idea is to preserve as much muscle mass
while efficiently loosing body fat. If their weight/ body fat does not drop as planned I
immediately make necessary changes. I would give the daily allowance for amount of
protein/carbs/fat without really limiting the choices. Many of my “clients” usually get
confused when I tell them that I would allow them to choose what they WANT to eat.

Their response is – they thought that only thing they should be eating would be (like you
said) – chicken, fish, steak, egg whites, potato, rice, oatmeal and vegetables!
At that point I would give them one of my yearly journals (I kept precise diet journals
since 1987 with times and amounts of food I was eating for more than 70 shows that
I have entered). Only thing that was constant on those pages was total amount of calories,
protein/carbs and fat, but food choices were different just about every day!
They could not believe that I would eat pancakes, waffles, bread, diary products, nuts,
different oils (olive, safflower, flax…), fruits or even gourmet meals ( you name it I had
it, in low fat version of that meal), just weeks before the show!?
My question to them (and all of you that might be surprised) is why not?
I would allow myself to eat 500 grams of Protein, 500 grams of Carbohydrates and 60
grams of fat, which is total of about 4500 calories.
So as long as I stay in those margins I would allow myself to enjoy whatever food I like
the most. If I estimate that my energy expenditure is more than 4600 calories daily why
would I be afraid of eating pancakes/waffles or whatever else? My body is going to use
those carbohydrates as energy just like it would from rice or potatoes. Our body has its
physiological and metabolic needs for abundance of nutrients loaded with good calories.
Competitive bodybuilders have tremendous amount of muscle mass (muscle is very
metabolically active tissue that consumes a lot of energy for its existence) and during
their pre contest period they have enormous energy demands ( 2 daily workouts with
additional aerobic activities). Good friend of mine –John Brown (multiple Mr. Universe
winner and IFBB professional) would never even attempt to eat “diet meals”. He would
eat his normal food (eggs, beacon, Cool Aid, French fries..) all the way up to a contest.
He would just make sure he burns those calories during his grueling workouts.
Thierry Pastel was the same. I saw him during European Tour eating everything he can
lay his hands on. Only, he would make sure that he has about 6 hours access to a local
gym ( to do his usual daily workout). Dexter Jackson? This guy starts dieting 6 weeks
out, never does cardio and trains only 3 times a week. I almost forgot – he can never
eat chicken or fish, so only protein he gets comes from steaks (in every meal).
Shawn Ray, one of the best and most consistent IFBB pro champions NEVER measures
his food or count calories yet, manages to always come in awesome shape.
Flex Wheeler has a reputation to constantly cheat on his diet (hamburgers and French
Fries) and Kevin Levrone use exclusively fish, vegetables and about a litter of Jack
Daniells all the way until the day of the contest (including back stage). Both champions
almost won most prestigious bodybuilding title in more than one occasion! (Please don’t
try their diet next time you decide to compete). 
So, to answer your question - I recommend counting calories and having specific ratio of
all three macro nutrients (protein, carbohydrates and fat). However, I would not advise
anyone to limit their food choices as dramatically as some of the competitors do.
Seafood pasta, cabbage rolls, beef stir fry, strawberry waffles, chocolate rice pudding or anything else could be on your next contest diet menu. Just make sure that your total
intake of particular nutrients is appropriate to what you want to accomplish.

[Alex23]

Here's a guy I prepped for shows recently. He ate plenty of junk on his diet while losing fat and weight. We just kept track of macros and if he wanted to eat bread or milk or fruit or even candy for his carbs he did so. Many times we ate at McDonald's after training. He just had 3 burgers with only one set of buns or whatever. Sure, he could've been plenty leaner but that is mostly a function of reducing energy intake further (and suffering more, and you'll suffer even with junk when you're not eating much). It's easier for many to track macros extremely accurately with "clean foods" but you can get ripped eating some so-called junk. And no, you don't need any crazy shit like DNP for it to work.

Good job VanB, you just made your proofs right there. I've been waiting for this for years. A+++ in my book bro.

Now, what's a "GarderRobe" Is it the same as a "Garde Robe" puis-je demander? 

[Smanjh]

Everyone is banking on the thermal effect of food, the timing, and the hormonal response from it in the calories do not matter debate.

This is worthless for the following reasons:

Thermal effect: This is useless because it varies from person to person. Either way, carbs are your glycogen, the body's preferred energy source. Ever try to workout in ketosis? Sucks doesn't it? Ever gain muscle in ketosis? Me either. Fat is easily digested, and protein does have a thermal effect, but so does celery.

Timing: Studies show that protein following exercise increases anabolism. How much protein is yet to be determined, however if you can only use so much, it stands to reason anything past that amount is transferred into fuel or stored as fat. The other argument, taking too much of everything at one time causes stored fat: true to a point. However taking less at other times creates the balance for fat loss.

Hormonal response: Take your blood sugar after eating 500 calories of HFCS and then again after drinking 500 calories of whey isolate. Big difference? Didn't think so. Why would the body jack up insulin so much after ingesting carbs, even if it is only a few points higher? Glycogen replenishment and storage right? Why store it? Oh yeah, so you can use it. Insulin is not the enemy, if the low carb crowd had it their way, the body would never release it or at least release very small amounts of it, thus making muscle growth impossible. Plus, it is possible to gain weight in ketosis if you try hard enough, it just won't be muscle and you will look and feel like shit.

Get enough of everything, carbs, pro, fat. Train hard but smart. Rest. Take drugs and/or supplements found OUTSIDE your diet in order to make things work better. Repeat.

Hope this helps.

[dj181]

True dat! A calorie is a calorie. As long as one consumes an adaquate amount of protein then it's all good P.S. An adaquate amount of protein is much lower than y'all think it is :>

[dj181]

Ok, bout 8 years ago, I was looking like this, and my diet consisted of purely junk... KFC, Mickey D's', Pizza Hut and coffee. Yeah! Yeah! Brutal 11 inch pipes and shriveled left quad FYI, the left quad is the result of 2 knee cap dislocations from playin' basket-ball

[newmom]

Here's a guy I prepped for shows recently. He ate plenty of junk on his diet while losing fat and weight. We just kept track of macros and if he wanted to eat bread or milk or fruit or even candy for his carbs he did so. Many times we ate at McDonald's after training. He just had 3 burgers with only one set of buns or whatever. Sure, he could've been plenty leaner but that is mostly a function of reducing energy intake further (and suffering more, and you'll suffer even with junk when you're not eating much). It's easier for many to track macros extremely accurately with "clean foods" but you can get ripped eating some so-called junk. And no, you don't need any crazy shit like DNP for it to work.

Wow, Van B, good job on the prep looking like that. I will say it wouldn't work for me at all though. I have a cheat day once a week. Safe to say works for me.

[no one]

Here's a guy I prepped for shows recently. He ate plenty of junk on his diet while losing fat and weight. We just kept track of macros and if he wanted to eat bread or milk or fruit or even candy for his carbs he did so. Many times we ate at McDonald's after training. He just had 3 burgers with only one set of buns or whatever. Sure, he could've been plenty leaner but that is mostly a function of reducing energy intake further (and suffering more, and you'll suffer even with junk when you're not eating much). It's easier for many to track macros extremely accurately with "clean foods" but you can get ripped eating some so-called junk. And no, you don't need any crazy shit like DNP for it to work.

well done. looks great.

i would imagine his caloric intake had a ceiling, and you state his macros insofar as carbs/ fats went were pliable- but i trust his protein intake always remained static and ample for the most part, say at least 5 out of the 7 days a week?

furthermore, there was a window instituted between the last junk meal and his fasted resting state?

i just don't want anyone who advocates the 'adonis principles', and especially those who are not as informed as some to think these results would be typical on the type of diet wavelength (not busting your balls bro - i like you) and adonis (you're a fag) advocate.

there are a lot more factors in play here in this guys prep than eat junk food = get lean.

[no one]

I`m bigger (184) and Leaner (leaner than the pics posted) right now.

Hope this helps.

  

i guess those pics are somewhere in the closet with your 225 for 110 rep dead lift video?

[WillGrant]

Here's a guy I prepped for shows recently. He ate plenty of junk on his diet while losing fat and weight. We just kept track of macros and if he wanted to eat bread or milk or fruit or even candy for his carbs he did so. Many times we ate at McDonald's after training. He just had 3 burgers with only one set of buns or whatever. Sure, he could've been plenty leaner but that is mostly a function of reducing energy intake further (and suffering more, and you'll suffer even with junk when you're not eating much). It's easier for many to track macros extremely accurately with "clean foods" but you can get ripped eating some so-called junk. And no, you don't need any crazy shit like DNP for it to work.

Is he using GH ? T3 would be in there somewhere Id imagine to yes ?

[Van_Bilderass]

well done. looks great.

i would imagine his caloric intake had a ceiling, and you state his macros insofar as carbs/ fats went were pliable- but i trust his protein intake always remained static and ample for the most part, say at least 5 out of the 7 days a week?

furthermore, there was a window instituted between the last junk meal and his fasted resting state?

i just don't want anyone who advocates the 'adonis principles', and especially those who are not as informed as some to think these results would be typical on the type of diet wavelength (not busting your balls bro - i like you) and adonis (you're a fag) advocate.

there are a lot more factors in play here in this guys prep than eat junk food = get lean.

Yes the protein was static and pretty closely measured. This guy isn't the type to weight food and count every last gram so he eyeballed the rest for the most part. Started out at approximately 350-400 grams of protein and about 300 grams of carbs. If on some day he ate protein which came from a pretty fatty source, say McDonald's burger meat or whole eggs, he held back on the carbs a bit so the calorie intake would be the same as if he ate protein from lean sources. If he wanted some candy after training instead of rice he chose candies made with glucose instead of candy with lots of fat and sucrose etc. So you can throw in some "junk" if the macros fit your plan. It's not like he ate Big Macs with fries and dip plus a coke every day. I guess you could work in whole meals at a burger joint but it's not going to work that well for someone who doesn't count and measure everything extremely closely.

Like I said, he isn't shredded and if he wants to get extremely lean he'll have to become a bit more anal about the food measuring as well as simply suffer more. Kind of hard for me to tell someone else that he needs to cut back further and increase cardio more though. Feel like an asshole since I'm not the one doing it. Heard, "I'm doing my best, I'm dying here man" many times.

Is he using GH ? T3 would be in there somewhere Id imagine to yes ?

You know I'd love to discuss this but it's not my place to disclose someone else's sensitive info.

[noworries]

176 at 5`11

Hope that helps.

How much you weigh here?  And why do you look so different.  Besides the steroids was it maybe you were eating shitty.  And then you had to start dieting to get lean.  And now you are eating shitty again and you look like these photos and that is why you haven't posted a photo.  The only thing you do is cut and paste and type what you want.  I am pretty sure most people can figure out you don't actually eat the way you are putting in your so-called log book.  Post daily videos of you eating the shit you say you eat.  Post a photo taken today.  Why can't you ever back up what you say.  That is all you have to do.

[Van_Bilderass]

Wow, Van B, good job on the prep looking like that. I will say it wouldn't work for me at all though. I have a cheat day once a week. Safe to say works for me.

You can't be eating much weighing so little? How much are you eating? A single junk food meal would probably exceed your daily allowance. Much harder to eat too much with "clean foods".

[wavelength]

Mmm, the approach to contest dieting hasn't changed all that much in the last 30 years. Still macro controlled no matter what the calories come out to. If you argue that competitors are are taking more carbs than before then fine, just consider WHY the are taking in more carbs.

I was only talking about contest prep until a week or so before a show. And I have no experience with AS, GH, etc, so I don't know how things change when juiced. But for a nattie, everything other than a certain intake of protein can be adjusted to make the diet as convenient as possible. At least I don't know any studies that would suggest an effect on body composition as long as target weight is reached (rate of weight loss is maintained). Scientifically oriented nutritionists like e.g. Alan Aragon agree BTW.

Except for maybe wavelength (I think) not one person that I can think of has ever even stepped on a bodybuilding stage yet is backing something that is totally unfounded in relation to bodybuilding. Tbombz, never competed or trained anyone to compete, TA, never competed, Wavelength, not sure if he did or not. Even if they did, I don't think they would even admit they used this type of farce for diet.

TA shows pics of himself when he was in decent shape but when asked how much he weighs it's something like 156lbs at 5'11 (or something like that) sorry dude, those arn't anywhere near bodybuilding stats in a real contest.

There are many reasons why a certain approach is taken. For a BB who has to make target weight for a show, e.g. simplifying the diet can help.

I never competed but I got into the condition in my avi eating whatever I wanted. This was 2009 and I have a thread with a complete food log of everything I ate 2009, partly with pictures. Only in the last week of the diet I applied a few more restrictions but I still drank beer and wine, ate ice cream and other desserts, etc.

But as I said, I'm a bad example because I'm prone to injuries, which hold me back and keep my total weight down.

[wavelength]

you gained muscle during your cutting diet?

If we agree on muscle mass being related to strength, yes. Since there isn't really any good method of measuring bodyfat at home, I can't be 100% sure of course.

[wavelength]

Joe Marino is making much sense as usual.

I hate these threads so just listen to Joe because he is correct.

Sorry Adam and Wave but I eat clean and just count macros and adjust them as needed.

Then the only problem is that there is no scientific definition of "clean" food whatsoever.
If you have one, I'm interested.

[WillGrant]

You know I'd love to discuss this but it's not my place to disclose someone else's sensitive info.

[newmom]

You can't be eating much weighing so little? How much are you eating? A single junk food meal would probably exceed your daily allowance. Much harder to eat too much with "clean foods".

I have posted what I eat and wont hijack a thread (yes shocking I know). Oh yea my saturday junk food day is good for at least 3 llb gain the next day and if drinking is involved then 5 llb gain

[The True Adonis]

I have posted what I eat and wont hijack a thread (yes shocking I know). Oh yea my saturday junk food day is good for at least 3 llb gain the next day and if drinking is involved then 5 llb gain

You must go completely wild if you are consuming 28,000 calories on top of your maintenance amount of calories in order to store 8 lbs of fat. 

Do you start eating as soon as you wake up?

[XFACTOR]

Because some people on here think a 300 calorie donut is the same as 300 calories of fish or chicken or red meat or broccoli, etc, etc. No, you do not have to be calorie deficit, I get lean and stay big on 2500-3000 calories of meat and veggies, I cannot get lean and retain size on 3000 calories of ice cream, cupcakes and shit even if I were to take in enough protein. No, calories count is not the same as counting macros.

How this is debated is beyond me.

[newmom]

You must go completely wild if you are consuming 28,000 calories on top of your maintenance amount of calories in order to store 8 lbs of fat. 

Do you start eating as soon as you wake up?

NOOO there is no way I eat 28,000 calories in a day, are you nuts (wait nevermind scratch that). Its gone by Monday morning. Here is what I usually have on my cheat day as an example.


Coffee, sugar free french vanilla and 3 equals
Woke up, ran for 5 miles then hit the stairclimber for 45 minutes

Big ass bowl of cinnamon toast crunch with sliced banana

snack, Celery and carrots with hummus

Lunch, Salad with chick peas and ranch dressing

Dinner, usually go out to eat and drinking michelob ultra. If I'm home, usually pasta with homemade gravy or baked ziti

Dessert, me and mini me go to Dairy Queen, I get the butterfinger blizzard but just tried the banana cream pie one (omg to yummy)

[wavelength]

How this is debated is beyond me.

It isn't and never was.