Determining who's illegal by their attire

[loco]

Can you tell what an illegal immigrant looks like by the way they dress?

U.S. Rep. Brian Bilbray apparently thinks you can. The California Republican was talking on air to MSNBC's Chris Matthews, defending the controversial Arizona legislation that's being described as the toughest law in the country against illegal immigration.

The law empowers local law enforcement to question people they suspect are in in the United States illegally. Critics say that's a disastrous recipe for racial profiling.

But Bilbray says that "trained professionals" can spot illegal immigrants by how they're dressed. An excerpt of the interview:

    Chris Matthews: ...like what, like what? Give me a non-ethnic aspect that would tell you to pick up somebody.

    Rep. Bilbray: They will look at the kind of dress you wear, there's different type of attire, there's different type of ...right down to the shoes, right down to the clothes. But mostly by behavior it's mostly behavior, just as the law enforcement people here in Washington, DC does it based on certain criminal activity there is behavior things that professionals are trained in across the board and this group shouldn't be exempt from those observations as much as anybody else.

Here's what the watchdog organization Media Matters said about Bilbray's comments:

    So either Bilbray thinks that all undocumented workers are wearing some kind of uniform or team shirt that will easily allow Arizona officers to grab them up...or he's just clumsily, wrongly, and, frankly, stupidly trying to justify what will obviously become a horrible situation for all Latino (or Latino-dressed?) residents of Arizona.

    His subsequent comments on behavior are just as offensive. Because what would that behavior be, exactly? It isn't as if undocumented immigrants are engaging in behavior that makes them instantly identifiable as "illegal."

http://blogs.chron.com/immigration/archives/2010/04/post_368.html

[loco]

Sheriff Joe Arpaio Admits Clothing, Speech, And Conduct Help Determine If Someone Is ‘Illegal’


Over the past 24 hours, Arizona Sheriff Joe Arpaio has appeared on several major news networks groaning about his curtailed power to enforce immigration laws and denying allegations of racial profiling which many believe are the reason federal immigration authorities decided to present him with a new agreement which limits his authority. However, in a CNN interview with Rick Sanchez this afternoon, Arpaio revealed that his deputies are in fact arresting people based on the way they look:

    SANCHEZ: You just said you detain people who haven’t committed a crime — how do you prove they they’re not illegal?

    ARPAIO: It has to do with their conduct, what type of clothes they’re wearing, their speech, they admit it, they may have phony IDs. A lot of variables are involved.

    SANCHEZ: You judge people and arrest them based on their speech and the clothes they’re wearing sir?

    ARPAIO: No, when they’re in the vehicle with someone who has committed a crime. We have the right to talk to those people. When they admit that they are here illegally we take action…the federal law specifies the speech, the clothes, the environment, the erratic behavior. It’s right in the law.

Watch it:

Arpaio insists that his deputies do not employ racial profiling. The 2,700 lawsuits collecting dust on Arpaio’s desk seem to suggest otherwise. Complaints of discrimination finally mounted to the point where the Department of Justice had to intervene and open up an investigation of Arpaio’s immigration enforcement tactics which the Sheriff has refused to cooperate with. Arpaio probably won’t be receiving any awards from the Obama administration, but he has acquired a few neo-Nazi fans.

The Department of Homeland Security ordered the standardization and review of all agreements between local police and Immigration and Customs Enforcement after the Government Accountability Office released a report showing that many local police are using their authority to deport immigrants stopped for minor violations such as speeding. Arpaio’s new agreement with ICE will only allow him to scan the immigration status of his inmates. While Arpaio is already acting as if his new agreement is a done deal, ICE head John Morton has yet to officially sign off.

http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/10/08/joe-arpaio-287g/

[24KT]

What a bunch of ignorant F-ing clowns! What utter nonsense!!!

[240 is Back]

people are okay with profiling until it's bald, musclebound white guys.

then, when obama decides to use it on them, they'll be screaming about american liberties.

[Hugo Chavez]

people are okay with profiling until it's bald, musclebound white guys.

then, when obama decides to use it on them, they'll be screaming about american liberties.

lol, yea like how would we feel on getbig if states started detaining you for looking like you juice   good point.

however, it's not usually that hard to spot illegal mexicans.  Some especially are a dead givaway.  But after this is all said and done and the courts end up having their say, it might come out that they can't profile for "Mexicans."  Then their only recourse will be to be a papers please state for everyone. 

[loco]

lol, yea like how would we feel on getbig if states started detaining you for looking like you juice   good point.

however, it's not usually that hard to spot illegal mexicans.  Some especially are a dead givaway.  But after this is all said and done and the courts end up having their say, it might come out that they can't profile for "Mexicans."  Then their only recourse will be to be a papers please state for everyone. 

Hugo,
Will you please elaborate?

[Parker]

Hmm, which would be consider illegal first, the brown Mexican with the dirty work clothes, or the pretty blonde blue eyed white Russian girl in the BMW?

[Hugo Chavez]

Hugo,
Will you please elaborate?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not stereotyping hispanics or anything.  Far from it.  These guys for the most part stand out from other hispanics.  I'd be willing to bet that I could easily go out and pick out 10 Mexicans and get their legal status 9 times out of 10, hell I might even get 10 for 10.  These guys don't exactly do the best job of blending in.  They're all wearing the same style cloths, are often seen traveling together 10+ people to a vehicle.  Living in the same home also in great number of mostly males.  They don't usually have bank accounts so on payday they're lined up at the grocery store to cash their checks.  They group together where people can go hire them on the cheap.  There's all sorts of stuff like that where they are a dead giveaway.  They might as well at times be holding up a sign that says "Illegal"

[Hugo Chavez]

Hmm, which would be consider illegal first, the brown Mexican with the dirty work clothes, or the pretty blode blue eyed white Russian girl in the BMW?

and I think, after the courts get ahold of this, that's where it'll go.  Then they'll be "papers please" for everyone no matter what they look like.

[loco]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not stereotyping hispanics or anything.  Far from it.  These guys for the most part stand out from other hispanics.  I'd be willing to bet that I could easily go out and pick out 10 Mexicans and get their legal status 9 times out of 10, hell I might even get 10 for 10.  These guys don't exactly do the best job of blending in.  They're all wearing the same style cloths, are often seen traveling together 10+ people to a vehicle.  Living in the same home also in great number of mostly males.  They don't usually have bank accounts so on payday they're lined up at the grocery store to cash their checks.  They group together where people can go hire them on the cheap.  There's all sorts of stuff like that where they are a dead giveaway.  They might as well at times be holding up a sign that says "Illegal"

Hugo,
Please tell me what same style cloths that is.  I really want to know, for my own safety.  I wouldn't want to visit Arizona and find myself wearing the same style cloths, standing in line at the grocery store behind these "illegal Mexicans", right when Sheriff Joe Arpaio or one of his henchmen walk in and arrests us all.    

I do speak English with an accent.  So I already have that going against me.    

And what about Hispanic churches?  Church members pick up other members and they all ride together in the same car to church and back on Sundays, Wednesdays and Fridays.  And they don't all wear church attire.

[BM OUT]

people are okay with profiling until it's bald, musclebound white guys.

then, when obama decides to use it on them, they'll be screaming about american liberties.

They already do that now!!The DEA gets into gyms then follow muscle bound guys to try to pinch them for juice.Even getting search warrents for their homes saying their look is grounds for it.NEVER EVER heard ONE fucking pussy congressman or senator or media a-hole bitch about it on the left or on the right.NOT ONE NOT EVER!!!

So,if you have examples of any media idiot being outraged over that type of profiling Id love to see it.

Id also like you to show me ANY media person who stood up for Barry Bonds when they said his size and appearance PROVE he juiced.I dont recall ANYONE in the media saying that was profiling and they obviously have ZERO proof that he did ANYTHING as his case will NEVER EVER come to trial because of an utter,absolute lack of evidence.

So your post is worthless as hell as no one in the media or government has any problem with profiling muscle bound white[or black ]guys at all.In fact they applaud it,hold hearings to try to get more profiling down..Id also ask you to name any congressman or senator that ever said "if we are calling for athletes to be drug tested then we should be under the same scruitiny".These athletes have to take drug tests with ZERO evidence they did anything wrong.Whats worse,asking someone for papers,or MAKING them take drug tests to try to catch them doing something wrong?

[George Whorewell]

Hmm, which would be consider illegal first, the brown Mexican with the dirty work clothes, or the pretty blonde blue eyed white Russian girl in the BMW?

While we're on the topic, I wonder which one the cops would consider more likely to shoot them with an AK47 during a routine traffic stop.





























(ahhhhhh,...... that was a trick question because the dirty mexican isn't in a car)

[Hugo Chavez]

Hugo,
Please tell me what same style cloths that is.  I really want to know, for my own safety.  I wouldn't want to visit Arizona and find myself wearing the same style cloths, standing in line at the grocery store behind these "illegal Mexicans", right when Sheriff Joe Arpaio or one of his henchmen walk in and arrests us all.    

I do speak English with an accent.  So I already have that going against me.    

And what about Hispanic churches?  Church members pick up other members and they all ride together in the same car to church and back.  And they don't all wear church attire.

I figured you would mock me.  I'm willing to talk honestly on this issue.  I've been involved in this issue for a long ass time.  I've spent time with illegals.  I've worked with them picking crops.  I've worked with them spraying fucking shit pesticides.  I've posted on this before so I don't give a shit if anyone makes fun of me for doing it.  I've traveled to Mexico with them and had fun with their family and friends and partied with them and spent time listening to them.  I've taken the time to hear what they had to say and I do not blame them in any way for what they do.  I feel the faults with the immigration issues is more do to American actions than the people coming here to work...  I've voiced myself on that issue now for almost 20 years.  I have a firm belief that the lax immigration system has not only hurt American workers but held back Mexico, specifically the northern region.  When the best and able workers feel their best choice is to head north to America, there isn't enough to work on back home--Mexico has great resourses too.  I've always felt that fixing the immigration problem would acutually help Mexico!!!!  Nobody else talks about that... That's because most of these fuckers talking about it are shooting their mouth off with no real desire to have an indepth understanding of the issue or an indepth understanding of why and how to fix it.  I fucking really do have that desire and have worried about it for a long time for not just America but for Mexico and the people there I've spent time with.  This is as short of a summary as I can give and have people still read it.  If you want more just ask.

[dario73]

I think EVERYONE should be stopped and asked to provide proof of legal citizenship.

Nothing wrong with that.

That way the liberal fags don't get so upset. Everyone gets treated the same way.

[George Whorewell]

Hugo why are you explaning yourself?

We all know your just a nativist immigrint hater ala Daniel Day Lewis in "Gangs of New York".

[Hugo Chavez]

Hugo why are you explaning yourself?

We all know your just a nativist immigrint hater ala Daniel Day Lewis in "Gangs of New York".

hahahhaahah...  good show.  I didn't like it so much the first time I watched it but the second time I watched it I liked it much more.  Yes I do understand the concerns of "The Butcher"  This is something that has gone on for a long long time.

I don't feel the need to explain myself, I want to explain myself.  I want people to see more into all sides.  In the end I believe complete understanding from all perspectives can bring the best solution and most importantly end the bogus people and politicians that use the issue with no intention of fixing it as well as the people that just do it to hate.

I believe there are solutions that make you happy and work good for Mexicans.  I have thought about this for a long ass time so why wouldn't I want to explain it?

Questions?  Happy to answer, just ask..........

[loco]

I figured you would mock me.  I'm willing to talk honestly on this issue.  I've been involved in this issue for a long ass time.  I've spent time with illegals.  I've worked with them picking crops.  I've worked with them spraying fucking shit pesticides.  I've posted on this before so I don't give a shit if anyone makes fun of me for doing it.  I've traveled to Mexico with them and had fun with their family and friends and partied with them and spent time listening to them.  I've taken the time to hear what they had to say and I do not blame them in any way for what they do.  I feel the faults with the immigration issues is more do to American actions than the people coming here to work...  I've voiced myself on that issue now for almost 20 years.  I have a firm belief that the lax immigration system has not only hurt American workers but held back Mexico, specifically the northern region.  When the best and able workers feel their best choice is to head north to America, there isn't enough to work on back home--Mexico has great resourses too.  I've always felt that fixing the immigration problem would acutually help Mexico!!!!  Nobody else talks about that... That's because most of these fuckers talking about it are shooting their mouth off with no real desire to have an indepth understanding of the issue or an indepth understanding of why and how to fix it.  I fucking really do have that desire and have worried about it for a long time for not just America but for Mexico and the people there I've spent time with.  This is as short of a summary as I can give and have people still read it.  If you want more just ask.

Settle down, Hugo!  I really wasn't mocking you.  I am asking you honest questions, with sarcasm directed at the people in the videos above, not you.   

And I do not doubt anything you posted above.

[tonymctones]

I think what they are saying is that they are going to take everything into account...I agree though that gaining probable cause on dress alone is not ok but again used in conjunction with other aspects LIKE THEY SAID and you left out I simply taking all things into account.

When its thought that a person might be a gang member and they are wearing a certain color police do ask them if they are a gang member...

[loco]

I think what they are saying is that they are going to take everything into account...I agree though that gaining probable cause on dress alone is not ok but again used in conjunction with other aspects LIKE THEY SAID and you left out I simply taking all things into account.

When its thought that a person might be a gang member and they are wearing a certain color police do ask them if they are a gang member...

tonymctones,
I can't believe you are defending and justifying this!  I left out what?  What did I leave out that's not in my post and in the videos?

When asked how will a cop determine who is illegal, both of these people started their answer by saying the same thing: By their "clothes."  Sheriff Joe Arpaio added "speech", and "conduct".  Anything else they mention after these.  And this guy is in law enforcement.  

They did not mention anything about gang colors.  You did.   Not a good analogy.  If gang colors tell police who might be a gang member, then what colors, clothes, accent tell police that somebody is illegal?  The question is how can you tell who is illegal, not how can you tell who is a gang member.

[Hugo Chavez]

I think what they are saying is that they are going to take everything into account...I agree though that gaining probable cause on dress alone is not ok but again used in conjunction with other aspects LIKE THEY SAID and you left out I simply taking all things into account.

When its thought that a person might be a gang member and they are wearing a certain color police do ask them if they are a gang member...

but you must know that's not the way it will play out in reality.

[tonymctones]

tonymctones,
I can't believe you are defending and justifying this!  I left out what?  What did I leave out that's not in my post and in the videos?

When asked how will a cop determine who is illegal, both of these people started their answer by saying the same thing: By their "clothes."  Sheriff Joe Arpaio added "speech", and "conduct".  Anything else they mention after these.  And this guy is in law enforcement.  

They did not mention anything about gang colors.  You did.   Not a good analogy.  If gang colors tell police who might be a gang member, then what colors, clothes, accent tell police that somebody is illegal?  The question is how can you tell who is illegal, not how can you tell who is a gang member.

look at your title...its misleading...I said that using clothing alone isnt good enough but whats wrong with taking in the entire situation?

the gang member comment was to show you that police do indeed already use dress as a way of identifying ppl...

[tonymctones]

but you must know that's not the way it will play out in reality.

Ive said it already that Id like to see the law tightend up but you see the problem is you have ppl like loco who believes that you cant have any law targeting immigrants...this will lead like you accurately predict to law enforcement asking for papers from everyone...

we need a law that allows us to find illegal aliens and deport them, plain and simple...whats your idea?

I think if they determine specific language for this law as to what constitutes probable cause then its about as good as its gonna get and still be effective.

[loco]

look at your title...its misleading...I said that using clothing alone isnt good enough but whats wrong with taking in the entire situation?

the gang member comment was to show you that police do indeed already use dress as a way of identifying ppl...

The title of the thread is the title of the first article, and the first thing that both of these two people mention as a way to stop illegals.  It's not misleading.

Gangs wear colors to distinguish themselves from those who are not part of their gang.  They practically wear "uniforms."  That is how they themselves make it easy for law enforcement to spot them by the way they dress, the colors they wear.  Bad analogy!  Illegal immigrants don't wear a certain color, or attire that lawful US permanent residents and American citizens wouldn't wear too.  

[tonymctones]

The title of the thread is the title of the first article, and the first thing that both of these two people mention as a way to stop illegals.  It's not misleading.

Gangs wear colors to distinguish themselves from those who are not part of their gang.  They practically wear "uniforms."  That is how they themselves make it easy for law enforcement to spot them by the way they dress, the colors they wear.  Bad analogy!  Illegal immigrants don't wear a certain color, or attire that lawful US permanent residents and American citizens wouldn't wear too.  

LMAO they use that in conjunction with many different things, why dont you understand that?

do other american citizens not wear those colors of gangs as well? so gang members dont wear certain colors that lawful us residents wouldnt wear either...

youre ok with LEO asking questios to possible gang members but not possible ILLEGALS?

while I agree with you that illegals dont have a uniform most are unskilled laborers...unskilled laborers do generally dress in a certain way...

[loco]

LMAO they use that in conjunction with many different things, why dont you understand that?

do other american citizens not wear those colors of gangs as well? so gang members dont wear certain colors that lawful us residents wouldnt wear either...

youre ok with LEO asking questios to possible gang members but not possible ILLEGALS?

while I agree with you that illegals dont have a uniform most are unskilled laborers...unskilled laborers do generally dress in a certain way...

 

Latino American citizens are screwed.