Don't Ask; Don't Tell, Not So Bad? ROTC Girl "Comes Out" On Eve of Graduation

[MCWAY]

I think we're going to get fucked on this. We've had two separate surveys that we've had to fill out...we all did. They're laying the ground work right now in the DOD. People are making statements etc. I think this is why Gates is stepping down but I can't be sure. He can't back the policy. Mullen is a gutless wuss and won't throw his stars down. It remains to be seen what the Marines will do. This isn't like 1994 when they tried it last time. Then there was a feeling that the issue was a non-starter. Now, people are trying to figure how this thing could ever work when they shove it down our throats..no homo.

That's just it. They're trying to figure it out, simply because Obama's pushing it. But, if/when the Dems get booted out of their offices this fall, the drive to repeal DADT will fall by the wayside.

Unemployment will be over 10% (although, for all practical purposes, it already is) and there will be other domestic issues dominating the headlines.

[headhuntersix]

I agree..but I think they will move on this. He needs to do something. U assume this asshat is rational...he will try to get a victory.

[MCWAY]

I agree..but I think they will move on this. He needs to do something. U assume this asshat is rational...he will try to get a victory.

I didn't say he wouldn't try. Fortunately, he can't do this by himself. He needs a Democratic Senate and House to do it. The longer this study takes, the better. By the time it conclude, Obama likely won't have the muscle he needs to repeat DADT.

If, as some political pundits predicts, the Dems get obliterated, Obama will be fearing for his political life. He'll be staring down the barrel of double-digit unemployment, higher taxes slapped on the American people, and immigration problems as far as the eye can see.

Few, if any, are going to care about his desire to end DADT, at that point.

[drkaje]

Some people don't like DADT because it works. Most couldn't care less about someone else's sexuality unless confronted by it. There's just a faction of the gay subculture that is attention addicted and muddying the issue.

The no gays policy was better. At least then people had a legitimate beef. At this point I just want them to STFU unless they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt two things: 1. serving out of the closet makes the military better. 2. Not having one's sexuality known, even in cases where no one gives a crap, causes direct personal harm.

Politicians (and others with agendas) need to stop using our military to conduct social experiments.

[MCWAY]

Some people don't like DADT because it works. Most couldn't care less about someone else's sexuality unless confronted by it. There's just a faction of the gay subculture that is attention addicted and muddying the issue.

The no gays policy was better. At least then people had a legitimate beef. At this point I just want them to STFU unless they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt two things: 1. serving out of the closet makes the military better. 2. Not having one's sexuality known, even in cases where no one gives a crap, causes direct personal harm.

Politicians (and others with agendas) need to stop using our military to conduct social experiments.

AMEN!!

But, the more I read about this, the more this sounds like a simple case of this woman, trying to duck going to combat.

[The Showstoppa]

Honestly, when I was in, you had guys/girls you suspected, but as long as they kept their stuff to themselves, nobody really cared.  that was pre DADT....yes I'm old.

[24KT]

In other words,
- Rachel Maddow? NO!
- Samantha Fox? Maybe?
- Perez Hilton.....IS YOU CRAZY???

I know I shouldn't laugh at that, ...but that was funny! 

[OzmO]

One thing to consider is that if there wasn't a ban on gays or a DADT policy this would be a non issue.

That being said, I think she is ducking combat or ducking the service in general and should pay back the 80 grand student loan style.

[tonymctones]

One thing to consider is that if there wasn't a ban on gays or a DADT policy this would be a non issue.

That being said, I think she is ducking combat or ducking the service in general and should pay back the 80 grand student loan style.

yes but if there wasnt a ban on gays or a DADT policy it would present a host of other problems...

[OzmO]

yes but if there wasnt a ban on gays or a DADT policy it would present a host of other problems...

I think we had this debate before.  I see it as a set of problems that occur with any change of this magnitude.  But its a change that will happen at some point.

I was watching "America the story of us" the other day and find it ironic that the German officer who is largely responsible for training the young American revolutionary army was gay. 

[tonymctones]

I think we had this debate before.  I see it as a set of problems that occur with any change of this magnitude.  But its a change that will happen at some point.

I was watching "America the story of us" the other day and find it ironic that the German officer who is largely responsible for training the young American revolutionary army was gay. 

Its more than a set of problems its a change in thinking, gays want to be recognized as gays but that means you have to see them as gay all the time...no same sex bathrooms, no same sex showers, men and women as far as I know dont share quarters, so gays and straights wouldnt be able to...logically, I have no doubt in my mind that the GLBT movement will argue differently but logically thats the way it needs to be...and thats just a few things oz

[Dos Equis]

yes but if there wasnt a ban on gays or a DADT policy it would present a host of other problems...

True.  For example, bisexuals, transgendered, and gender identity groups will have to be accommodated.  What happens with living arrangements?  Bathrooms?  Uniforms?  Marriages/relationships? 

[tonymctones]

True.  For example, bisexuals, transgendered, and gender identity groups will have to be accommodated.  What happens with living arrangements?  Bathrooms?  Uniforms?  Marriages/relationships? 

exactly its more than simply a set of problems the whole system has to be reworked in order to accommodate them

[OzmO]

So no other standing army allows gays then?

Is it because of "all the problems" that are created?

[Dos Equis]

So no other standing army allows gays then?

Is it because of "all the problems" that are created?

Yes other countries have allowed homosexuals to serve, but not sure if places like Israel has all of the recognized gender classifications we have created in this country and/or how they deal with it.  

[OzmO]

Yes other countries have allowed homosexuals to serve, but not sure if places like Israel has all of the recognized gender classifications we have created in this country and/or how they deal with it.  

Yeah, Israel probably, (I assuming) doesn't have 100,000,000 lawyers arguing over the dumbest stuff like people getting their feelings hurt if their sexuality isn't classified properly.

However, we could follow the lead of these other countries.  It won't be with out its growing pains, as any transition is, but it can work and will not lessen our ability to operate and respond as an elite armed force.  And then slimy weak people like this grad can't get away with stuff like this.

[Dos Equis]

Yeah, Israel probably, (I assuming) doesn't have 100,000,000 lawyers arguing over the dumbest stuff like people getting their feelings hurt if their sexuality isn't classified properly.

However, we could follow the lead of these other countries.  It won't be with out its growing pains, as any transition is, but it can work and will not lessen our ability to operate and respond as an elite armed force.  And then slimy weak people like this grad can't get away with stuff like this.

We'll see.  I'm not convinced this can be done without including all of the GLBT groups.  That's one of the problems I have with homosexual marriage.  It doesn't end with homosexuals.   

The grad hasn't gotten away with anything . . . yet.  I hope they make her reimburse the taxpayers.   

[Straw Man]

gays are already in the military and already have to share close quarters, bathroom, etc..

Our allies say it's no problem and their openly gay soldiers serve with ours in combat zones already.

are there realy that many transgendered people in the world, much less in the miliatry are is that even the same thing as being gay? 

[tonymctones]

So no other standing army allows gays then?

Is it because of "all the problems" that are created?

no other army comes from the culture of the US...

[tonymctones]

gays are already in the military and already have to share close quarters, bathroom, etc..

Our allies say it's no problem and their openly gay soldiers serve with ours in combat zones already.

are there realy that many transgendered people in the world, much less in the miliatry are is that even the same thing as being gay? 

so sexual harrasement already happens should we legalize that? gays do so now under the assumption that they are STRAIGHT!!!!!!!!!!! as soon as they are openly gay what in your mind makes you think its ok to have the share bathrooms, showers and quarters with those who they find sexually attractive?

[Straw Man]

so sexual harrasement already happens should we legalize that? gays do so now under the assumption that they are STRAIGHT!!!!!!!!!!! as soon as they are openly gay what in your mind makes you think its ok to have the share bathrooms, showers and quarters with those who they find sexually attractive?

what does sexual harrasment have to do with gays in the military

straight people are in the military and sexual harassment is not allowed

[Straw Man]

no other army comes from the culture of the US...

what exactly about our culture makes us different and unable to deal with it as our allies can

[tonymctones]

what does sexual harrasment have to do with gays in the military

straight people are in the military and sexual harassment is not allowed

a man in a womens locker room oggling them would be sexual harrasement correct?

a gay man in a mens locker room oggling them would be......

that is unless the gays dont have to follow the same laws as straights?

[tonymctones]

what exactly about our culture makes us different and unable to deal with it as our allies can

sexes and genders and how we view them is one but dude if you cant look at this culture and see the problems that will arise from it youre being ignorant

[Straw Man]

a man in a womens locker room oggling them would be sexual harrasement correct?

a gay man in a mens locker room oggling them would be......

that is unless the gays dont have to follow the same laws as straights?

I assume "oggling" would be considered harrasment

I also assume you go to a gym and occassionally use the bathroom, shower etc... without any issue even though there are probably a few gay people who also belong to your gym

I think most people can just mind there own business