Don't Ask; Don't Tell, Not So Bad? ROTC Girl "Comes Out" On Eve of Graduation

[Straw Man]

sexes and genders and how we view them is one but dude if you cant look at this culture and see the problems that will arise from it youre being ignorant

most people in the world would laugh at the idea of "culture" in the US but why don't you try answering the question I asked.  What is it specifically about our culture that makes us unable to do what our allies have done?  You must have had something in mind or you wouldn't have written it ..... right?

[tonymctones]

I assume "oggling" would be considered harrasment

I also assume you go to a gym and occassionally use the bathroom, shower etc... without any issue even though there are probably a few gay people who also belong to your gym

I think most people can just mind there own business

so youre saying your in favor of men being able to go into womens locker rooms and vice versa?

what youre not...color me shocked   you see what youre basically saying is that gays dont have to follow the same laws as we do...

[tonymctones]

most people in the world would laugh at the idea of "culture" in the US but why don't you try answering the question I asked.  What is it specifically about our culture that makes us unable to do what our allies have done?  You must have had something in mind or you wouldn't have written it ..... right?

LOL i did sexes and genders and our views on them the way we fashion our laws around these beliefs...

[Straw Man]

so youre saying your in favor of men being able to go into womens locker rooms and vice versa?

what youre not...color me shocked   you see what youre basically saying is that gays dont have to follow the same laws as we do...

when did I say that

what I said was that "oggling" would be most likely be considered a form of harrasment

don't you think so?

[Straw Man]

LOL i did sexes and genders and our views on them the way we fashion our laws around these beliefs...

what exactly about our views on "sexes and genders" is so unique here in comparison to Great Britain, Canada, Australia, Israel

[tonymctones]

when did I say that

what I said was that "oggling" would be most likely be considered a form of harrasment

don't you think so?

you seem to be excusing gays in locker rooms with those they find sexually attractive here...

"I also assume you go to a gym and occassionally use the bathroom, shower etc... without any issue even though there are probably a few gay people who also belong to your gym"

am I mistaken? if Im not then whats the difference with men in womens locker rooms?

I would say unwanted oggling of another NEKID is a form of harrasement...

[Straw Man]

you seem to be excusing gays in locker rooms with those they find sexually attractive here...

"I also assume you go to a gym and occassionally use the bathroom, shower etc... without any issue even though there are probably a few gay people who also belong to your gym"

am I mistaken? if Im not then whats the difference with men in womens locker rooms?

I would say unwanted oggling of another NEKID is a form of harrasement...

I'm not excusing anything

I'm pointing out something that should already be obvious to you.

why do you assume that gay people can't help themselve and must "ogle" you and don't you think that such a thing if it happened would be considered a form of harrasment?

[tonymctones]

I'm not excusing anything

I'm pointing out something that should already be obvious to you.

why do you assume that gay people can't help themselve and must "ogle" you and don't you think that such a thing if it happened would be considered a form of harrasment?

Im not assuming they can or not why are you assuming that men cant help themselves and must ogle? if you dont think that whats the difference between men going into womens locker rooms and gay men in mens locker rooms?

the issue isnt whether they are doing it or not but youd have to be a damn fool to think that a gay person has never checked out anyone in the history of the US while in a locker room or bathroom.

I already answered whether or not Id consider it harrasement...

[Skeletor]

So since gay men must have inadvertently looked at other men in men's locker rooms what is the solution? Gay men use women's locker rooms? Or create "gay only" locker rooms?

On the DADT policy i think the most flawed aspect is that someone can be dishonorably discharged (no matter how well they have behaved/performed their duties) if an anonymous third person made an accusation (which might not even be true) that someone is gay. Supposedly this was subject to change but I don't know if it has.
It is quite hypocritical though because it's like saying "we can't ban you if you're gay but if you say your are or if someone else claims you are then we kick you out". It would be more honest and create less fuss if they just banned gays outright because essentially that's what DADT means.

[tonymctones]

So since gay men must have inadvertently looked at other men in men's locker rooms what is the solution? Gay men use women's locker rooms? Or create "gay only" locker rooms?

On the DADT policy i think the most flawed aspect is that someone can be dishonorably discharged (no matter how well they have behaved/performed their duties) if an anonymous third person made an accusation (which might not even be true) that someone is gay. Supposedly this was subject to change but I don't know if it has.
It is quite hypocritical though because it's like saying "we can't ban you if you're gay but if you say your are or if someone else claims you are then we kick you out". It would be more honest and create less fuss if they just banned gays outright because essentially that's what DADT means.

have had this conversation many many times and what the solution is exactly isnt the first step the first step is to admit there is an inequality there after you accept that then you move on to the solution...

I dont know if someone can simply acuse you of being gay and get you kicked out...

[Straw Man]

Im not assuming they can or not why are you assuming that men cant help themselves and must ogle?

again - when did I say this?

most of the women I see at my gym are fat slobs and I wish they would wear more clothes in the gym.

There definitely some hot woman at my gym and honestly if I had to share a locker room with them I might steal a glance but certainly wouldn't stand there and stare at them.  I'd respect their f'ng privacy just like I try to respect everyones privacy.

It's called acting like an adult and somehow I think people in the military can manage to do exactly the same thing. 

[tonymctones]

again - when did I say this?

most of the women I see at my gym are fat slobs and I wish they would wear more clothes in the gym.

There definitely some hot woman at my gym and honestly if I had to share a locker room with them I might steal a glance but certainly wouldn't stand there and stare at them.  I'd respect their f'ng privacy just like I try to respect everyones privacy.

It's called acting like an adult and somehow I think people in the military can manage to do exactly the same thing. 

so as long as its just a glance at them naked its ok? you see youre saying that its ok to have gay men in mens locker rooms correct?

[Skeletor]

I dont know if someone can simply acuse you of being gay and get you kicked out...

It used to be and supposedly Sec. Gates would change the policy (it was announced near the end of March) so someone can still report a person they think is gay but it third person or anonymous testimonies would not be be automatically accepted. I don't know if it is actually in effect or whether it will have any effect on previous anonymous complaints cases.

[Straw Man]

so as long as its just a glance at them naked its ok? you see youre saying that its ok to have gay men in mens locker rooms correct?

I said I MIGHT steal a glance but that's not the same as sitting there are staring at them now is it?

I also said I would respect their privacy which I think any adult (certainly a disciplined person in the military) can easily manage

I assume a few gay people have looked at you in the gym sometime in your life

what effect has it had on your life?

[tonymctones]

I said I MIGHT steal a glance but that's not the same as sitting there are staring at them now is it?

I also said I would respect their privacy which I think any adult (certainly a disciplined person in the military) can easily manage

I assume a few gay people have looked at you in the gym sometime in your life

what effect has it had on your life?

NOT THE POINT are you ok with gay men in mens locker rooms?

again so a glance is ok? when do you stop respecting their privacy? 2, 3 secs of staring?

[Straw Man]

NOT THE POINT are you ok with gay men in mens locker rooms?[/b]

again so a glance is ok? when do you stop respecting their privacy? 2, 3 secs of staring?

god you're dense

first of all my gym does not have a co-ed locker room so I was answering your hypothetical question and being honest about it

second, I'm sure there are gay guys at my gym but I have no clue who they are and it doesn't really bother me that we share a locker room.   I mind my own business, take care of my shit and leave

you're the one that apparently can't stop thinking and talkkng about it

[tonymctones]

god you're dense

first of all my gym does not have a co-ed locker room so I was answering your hypothetical question and being honest about it

second, I'm sure there are gay guys at my gym but I have no clue who they are and it doesn't really bother me that we share a locker room.   I mind my own business, take care of my shit and leave

you're the one that apparently can't stop thinking and talkkng about it

just answer the fuking question for shits sake

are you ok with gay men in mens locker rooms?

[Straw Man]

just answer the fuking question for shits sake

are you ok with gay men in mens locker rooms?

I answered it

god you're dense

first of all my gym does not have a co-ed locker room so I was answering your hypothetical question and being honest about it

second, I'm sure there are gay guys at my gym but I have no clue who they are and it doesn't really bother me that we share a locker room.   I mind my own business, take care of my shit and leave

you're the one that apparently can't stop thinking and talkkng about it

[tonymctones]

I answered it

so it wouldnt bother you if men went into womens locker rooms then?

if it does

then please explain the difference?....this is how I came to the logical conclusion I did a half a FUKING page ago...

[Straw Man]

so it wouldnt bother you if men went into womens locker rooms then?

if it does

then please explain the difference?....this is how I came to the logical conclusion I did a half a FUKING page ago...

I wouldn't care if they had co-ed locker rooms

like I said, most of the women in my gym are fat slobs and I wish they would cover up more on the gym floor much less the locker room

the reason you're confused is because you have no logical conclusion......as usual

[tonymctones]

I wouldn't care if they had co-ed locker rooms

like I said, most of the women in my gym are fat slobs and I wish they would cover up more on the gym floor much less the locker room

the reason you're confused is because you have no logical conclusion......as usual

LOL sure hoss, see the problem is not whether you have a problem with it or not its whether the women at your gym have a problem with it...most I would assume do...now extend that into the military...

[Straw Man]

LOL sure hoss, see the problem is not whether you have a problem with it or not its whether the women at your gym have a problem with it...most I would assume do...now extend that into the military...

well if thats your point then why did you keep asking me if I had a problem with it

it sounds like you have a problem with it

is that correct?

[tonymctones]

well if thats your point then why did you keep asking me if I had a problem with it

it sounds like you have a problem with it

is that correct?

its only part of the problem...you see what happend when I extended your logic...YOU COULDNT FOLLOW!!!!!!!! i had to hold your fuking hand to get you to see what your logic lead to...

[Straw Man]

its only part of the problem...you see what happend when I extended your logic...YOU COULDNT FOLLOW!!!!!!!! i had to hold your fuking hand to get you to see what your logic lead to...

dude - get over your delusion that your'e some logic master and just try to follow the conversation

you are the one that brought up the topic of your fear that gay men would be free to "ogle" at will and it's pretty clear that you're still thoroughly confused a page and half later

[OzmO]

I'm sure its already been said, but GAY MEN already share locker rooms and showers in the US military.