Mexican president: "Of course we ask immigrants to show their papers."

[loco]

Illegals are invaders not Americans. 

American companies are hiring invaders.  And the US government gives invaders benefits.

[Soul Crusher]

True, but that does not hide the fact that these people, with thwe complicity of these corps and the govt are allowing the invasion. 

[The Showstoppa]

those who are willing to trade liberty for security deserve neither - ben franklin.


ONCE, to any american, is unacceptable.  I probably would have agreed with you - until I had to stand there helpless in cuffs with my kid staring at me, while this cop waits ten minutes for a buddy to arrive.  Then, he shot the shit for 5 minutes with him about this and that, ran my ID in 30 seconds, and sent me on my way.  That's 15 minutes I felt helpless and was deprived of my rights.  And I'm a college educated white guy who would have NO PROBLEM calling the ACLU and making a website about it in a minute lol... what does some young legal hispanic kid, or some old hispanic woman, have as a recourse?  They STFU and endure it.  On american soil.  When they've done nothing wrong.

until you have to stand there like that - and you've broken no law - you wouldn't understand.   Spend 15 min cuffed in front of your kid when you've done nothing wrong - and you may change your position.  I might have felt like you do - before.

I can understand what you are saying, but I think your reaction to this bill is too much of an emotional one based off of your ONE experience.   I've had, uh-humm "other run ins with the law" but I was just using the one above as an example.

We already give up personal rights for the good of society....ex: speeding, should someone have the right to drive their vehicle as fast as they want?  Of course not, not on a public road.   Same for DWI....etc...   

Like I said, I just see them being here illegally, sucking off the welfare system we pay into, leaching off medical care that we pay for, taking jobs from mexi's and legal americans that affects our tax base, social security, etc........... as being a FAR bigger infringement on my "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" than this bill could ever be.

[240 is Back]

hey, we're going to feel differently.

let's put it this way...  you've decided that "one time" of 15 min detained is alright.


Would YOU be okay with spending 15 minutes each day, detained in handcuffs?

If yes, okay.  Welcome to complete slavery/sheepdom.

If not, how many days per week or month is acceptable?  Put a number on it.  Once is okay, daily is not.  Please list the EXACT number of days per year you are willing to be detained.

if you can't even answer that... you're surely defending somethign you can't quantify.

[Soul Crusher]

hey, we're going to feel differently.

let's put it this way...  you've decided that "one time" of 15 min detained is alright.


Would YOU be okay with spending 15 minutes each day, detained in handcuffs?

If yes, okay.  Welcome to complete slavery/sheepdom.

If not, how many days per week or month is acceptable?  Put a number on it.  Once is okay, daily is not.  Please list the EXACT number of days per year you are willing to be detained.

if you can't even answer that... you're surely defending somethign you can't quantify.

Please, no one is proposing that unless you plan on committing crimes all day every day since the law requires that the police be interacting with people in investigation or normal police inrteraction. 

[The Showstoppa]

Please, no one is proposing that unless you plan on committing crimes all day every day since the law requires that the police be interacting with people in investigation or normal police inrteraction. 

this 240......I don't plan on being in the vicinity of police interacting with people investigating a crime.....so I would say, I'd be ok with a few times a year. 

[Montague]

those who are willing to trade liberty for security deserve neither - ben franklin.


ONCE, to any american, is unacceptable.  I probably would have agreed with you - until I had to stand there helpless in cuffs with my kid staring at me, while this cop waits ten minutes for a buddy to arrive.  Then, he shot the shit for 5 minutes with him about this and that, ran my ID in 30 seconds, and sent me on my way.  That's 15 minutes I felt helpless and was deprived of my rights.  And I'm a college educated white guy who would have NO PROBLEM calling the ACLU and making a website about it in a minute lol... what does some young legal hispanic kid, or some old hispanic woman, have as a recourse?  They STFU and endure it.  On american soil.  When they've done nothing wrong.

until you have to stand there like that - and you've broken no law - you wouldn't understand.   Spend 15 min cuffed in front of your kid when you've done nothing wrong - and you may change your position.  I might have felt like you do - before.

Rob:
I’m sure it was one of the worst feelings in the world to be pulled over and forced to undergo what you had to endure.
On the other hand, even you have to admit you weren’t pulled over just for the hell of it.

When searching for a suspect & you happen to match the description, there isn’t a whole lot more police can do to verify either way other than to stop & check you out.
And if there’s a chance you’re a legitimately dangerous individual, there are precautions police must employ for everyone’s safety.
I think that’s hardly abuse of power, and I doubt that even the ACLU could prove otherwise.

Now, had they dragged you out of the car, slammed you to the ground, tazered you, etc. before confirming your ID AND without you insinuating a threat, then yeah, that’s flagrantly wrong.
You acted properly, and yes - 15 minutes of your life are forever gone…
Had you started mouthing off into a profanity-laced diatribe & making a scene as so many others do in that situation, then the officers would no doubt have been required to also act more aggressively (as they often do), and then we may have been reading about you attending a White House beer summit.

[George Whorewell]

The corporations did it. The corporations did it. Boo hoo hoo. Some of you crybabies on here make me fucking sick. If Americans were willing to work for half the minimum wage with no benefits and no job security, then yeah- Less illegals would come here. But it's a stupid and utterly useless chicken versus egg argument. The bottom line is that the country of Mexico is a disgusting cesspool of violence and poverty and the American Government is a corrupt, incompetent enabler of illegal immigration.

The bottom line is that the big bad corporations are in America legally. The cucarachas that sneak into this country are here ILLEGALLY. We live in a capitalist country (at least somewhat these days). Things like supply, demand, overhead and profits are what count. If the Federal Government isn't going to enforce the laws and businesses can get away with hiring illegals, why the fuck shouldn't they? Why send half your profit margain across the street?

The Mexican government as a whole, the American Government as a whole and the Mexicans themselves are to blame. Period.

Enough with the mindless bellyaching about corporations. It's become a bigger leftist rallying cry than blaming GW Bush.

[240 is Back]

I'd attend the white house summit and order vodka/red bull.  Then I'd mock Biden for his "near beer".

[Dos Equis]

Wait.  240 was handcuffed for 15 minutes for an illegal turn?  I'm calling BS on that one.   

[240 is Back]

You call BS on me?   Sorry, my highly educated friend.  it's the truth, and it was very uncomfortable.  I turned over a double line - but there was a clear split there, another street, and many people turn there daily... and they opted not to give me a ticket for that... fancy that? 

It was the day after some idiot Huck pardoned walked into a diner and shot 4 cops.  There was an amber alert in my town that day as well.  Perfect storm of shitty circumstances.

I was armed, as I am legally CWP/CCW.  The cop was little and said for his protection, he'd like to cuff me so he could remove the gun from my pocket.  Then he waited for backup anyway, etc. 


I have no reason to lie about it, BB.  It sucked.  Matching Amber alert for a young child, so it made sense.  But giving the police that ability every day, everywhere?  No thanks...

[Soul Crusher]

What is your probpem, with what happened? 

If I fit the description of a murderer on the loose on my street and was detained briefly to check me out I would be ok with that.

 

[tonymctones]

What is your probpem, with what happened? 

If I fit the description of a murderer on the loose on my street and was detained briefly to check me out I would be ok with that.

 

240 believes they need 2 forms of video proof, 3 eye witnesses at least 1 a senior citizen preferably 2, alcohol and or pot in plain site and a bound and gagged underage illegal immigrant in your trunk before they are allowed to question you for anything...

[Soul Crusher]

Yet he wants to break the legs of illegals.   

[The Showstoppa]

Just heard some guy on the radio talking about Mexico's immigration policies......we need to adopt them.  Talk about all about business...

[Dos Equis]

You call BS on me?   Sorry, my highly educated friend.  it's the truth, and it was very uncomfortable.  I turned over a double line - but there was a clear split there, another street, and many people turn there daily... and they opted not to give me a ticket for that... fancy that?  

It was the day after some idiot Huck pardoned walked into a diner and shot 4 cops.  There was an amber alert in my town that day as well.  Perfect storm of shitty circumstances.

I was armed, as I am legally CWP/CCW.  The cop was little and said for his protection, he'd like to cuff me so he could remove the gun from my pocket.  Then he waited for backup anyway, etc.  


I have no reason to lie about it, BB.  It sucked.  Matching Amber alert for a young child, so it made sense.  But giving the police that ability every day, everywhere?  No thanks...

I wasn't there and don't know exactly what happened, but your story doesn't pass the smell test.  The four police officers you referenced were shot in the state of Washington by Maurice Clemmons.  That is literally on the other side of the country.    

An amber alert would have nothing to do with you, unless you were suspected of abducting a child.  

I don't doubt you were cuffed.  I seriously doubt it was because you crossed a white line.  

[Soul Crusher]

240 is hopping on the Jesse Jackson bandwagon with this. 

[Montague]

Rob,
If you were some/any kind of minority, you’d have had all kinds of people beating down your door to embellish and defend your case.

Does the general public have any issues with Caucasians (allegedly) profiling other Caucasians?
Or, does “discrimination” only exist when it occurs between different races/ethnicities?

[tonymctones]

I wasn't there and don't know exactly what happened, but your story doesn't pass the smell test.  The four police officers you referenced were shot in the state of Washington by Maurice Clemmons.  That is literally on the other side of the country.    

An amber alert would have nothing to do with you, unless you were suspected of abducting a child.  

I don't doubt you were cuffed.  I seriously doubt it was because you crossed a white line.  

he was suspected beach he fit the discription and he had his child with him...

further more 240 was very understanding after the event until he wanted to knee pad yet some more then he became very very upset 

[Dos Equis]

he was suspected beach he fit the discription and he had his child with him...

further more 240 was very understanding after the event until he wanted to knee pad yet some more then he became very very upset 

Here is a picture of Maurice Clemmons (who was shot and killed by the way):

Maurice Clemmons killed: press conference on shooting reveals more details
December 1, 5:46 AM
Spokane Headlines Examiner
Ryan Gamble


Maurice Clemmons was named the prime suspect in the Lakewood shooting

Pierce County Sheriff's OfficeMaurice Clemmons was shot and killed by police early Tuesday morning, and a press conference was held in response to the Clemmons shooting. The press conference was hosted by the Pierce County Sheriff's Office, where they detailed what took place after the Lakewood police shooting, and what happened when Maurice Clemmons was shot and killed.

At about 5:16 A.M. PST the press conference took place where it was explained what took place in the early morning hours of Tuesday. It was announced that it was the suspect from the Lakewood shooting that was killed, and he had a weapon belonging to one of the slain officers on his person. It was stressed that this was only preliminary information that they were relaying, and that the ongoing homicide investigation was separate from this conference.

The chief announced that around 2:45 A.M. a lone patrol officer with about seven years of experience on the job came across a stolen vehicle from earlier in the night. The officer saw that the car was still running, radioed the location, and then began a preliminary investigation of the scene. He detected movement behind him, and recognized a person approaching him as the possible suspect from the Lakewood police shooting. He ordered the suspect to stop and ordered the suspect to raise his hands, before the suspect starting moving. The officer fired shots that connected with the suspect, and then found that a firearm from the suspect matches the serial number of one taken from an officer at the Lakewood shooting.

The investigation is still on-going to finalize details of this shooting, and there are two witnesses that saw one or more parts of the altercation. At this time it doesn't appear as though the suspect fired upon the officer, and that the officer is currently being interviewed about what took place at the scene. It was further stated that everything indicates that Maurice Clemmons was the man who killed the four Lakewood police officers, and that Clemmons has been killed in this tragic ending to this massive manhunt.

It was also announced that three people were arrested for assisting Maurice Clemmons in his escape, including the driver of a vehicle that helped Clemmons leave the scene of the shooting in Parkland. The tie of the gun found on the suspect to the crime, a previous gunshot wound to Clemmons, and the fact that he resisted arrest all point towards Clemmons being the guilty party in this matter.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID7460/images/091201064229resized_Maurice_Clemmons.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.examiner.com/x-7460-Spokane-Headlines-Examiner~y2009m12d1-Maurice-Clemmons-killed-press-conference-on-shooting-reveals-more-details&usg=__tsqdk4ZEeDKLGvra5bljoosArHQ=&h=421&w=300&sz=30&hl=en&start=4&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=2Mw6b2duxThB9M:&tbnh=125&tbnw=89&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmaurice%2Bclemmons%2Bpolice%2Bshooting%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1

[Parker]

Thank You Beach Bum, he fit the description. There is he "fit the description" and then there is "he fit the description", black men always fit the description, even when they didn't even do the crime. I know of situation, where dude blamed a crime on a black man, turns out, he did it.

It has said quite eloquently, that the Corps, Mexican Govt, American Govt and The Mexican people are to blame...even Mexican officials harass and ask for papers of black mexicans.

Why didn't President Fox and Calderon try to woo American Corporations from going to China for cheap labor. I'd rather my stuff come from Mexico than China? At least it's continental North America. Oh, that's right, Mexico can't insure stability and safety within it's country, a big plus for Corporations in foreign countries, they don't want their companies being nationalized or taken over overnight.

And why don't the Mexican people demand more from their government...well, when you offer cheap labor, one may not be the most intelligent or literate. So, they leave, and the Mexican government doesn't care, less thorn in their side.

[240 is Back]

"I wasn't there and don't know exactly what happened, but your story doesn't pass the smell test.  The four police officers you referenced were shot in the state of Washington by Maurice Clemmons.  That is literally on the other side of the country.    

An amber alert would have nothing to do with you, unless you were suspected of abducting a child.  
"



beach bum, you were AWOL from the board when this all happened.

There was an amber alert on ft myers beach (i'm in estero, right next door) for a 30-something guy and a boy mine's age and look.  The cops told me they were on their toes due to the shooting, which was big breaking national news.  Hell, they knew how many kids total (9 i think) that the 4 officers had.  You dont think cops on this coast notice major stories like that?

I was stopped because I drove over a double yellow line - it broke so I thought it was okay to turn there.  everyone else does.  Cops said there was no turning there.  Everyone sitll does.  I dunno why they stopped me.  But they checked out my kid up close, they checked my gun, etc.

You konw the law well - and you come at me attacking me on an incident which I described in great detail here on getbig.

I was very understanding after the event - I understand.  But it sucked.  it sucked big time.  You want to doubt me, that's fine beach bum... i'm sure you've never been cuffed in your life, that's fine.  The feeling is something you can't describe til it happens to you.  I wouldn't want to see more legal, innocent americans go thru that shit.  

[Parker]

Rob, in the state of Maryland, if a person is arrested for a crime, he gets taken to a court commissioner, this commissioner decides if there is probable cause for the arrest, based upon the officer's statement of charges. There is a initial appearance hearing, if the Comm determines that there is no probable cause, the defendant is released.

[240 is Back]

I can see how a cop would put someone in cuffs for whatever reason - and leave them there longer than necessary, very easily.

how many times have yall been in cuffs?  it's some seriously disturbing shit. 

[tonymctones]

There was an amber alert on ft myers beach (i'm in estero, right next door) for a 30-something guy and a boy mine's age and look.  The cops told me they were on their toes due to the shooting, which was big breaking national news.  Hell, they knew how many kids total (9 i think) that the 4 officers had.  You dont think cops on this coast notice major stories like that?

I was stopped because I drove over a double yellow line - it broke so I thought it was okay to turn there.  everyone else does.  Cops said there was no turning there.  Everyone sitll does.  I dunno why they stopped me.  But they checked out my kid up close, they checked my gun, etc.

You konw the law well - and you come at me attacking me on an incident which I described in great detail here on getbig.

I was very understanding after the event - I understand.  But it sucked.  it sucked big time.  You want to doubt me, that's fine beach bum... i'm sure you've never been cuffed in your life, that's fine.  The feeling is something you can't describe til it happens to you.  I wouldn't want to see more legal, innocent americans go thru that shit.  

you broke a traffic law and you got pulled over and fit the discription of a person with a child that had been kid napped...I REALLY DONT SEE WHY YOURE SO PISSY ABOUT IT???

by your logic if a cops has a little power they will over use it, but by you logic they can do that with all laws...tell me how its different?

you dont think that cops should be able to detain suspected criminals? honestly 240 answer this without the yada yada yada bs a serious conversatoin..