Other Cultures - My complaint about the United States today...

[OzmO]

And i ask again,  how exactly are these people demanding respect?  Are they demanding they can beat up their wives without getting charged with assault?

[Fury]

But in AMERICA,  she is free to leave.  And if she gets beat up the husband is charged with assault and is NOT protected by the law as he would be in another country.

You act as if they are not subject to our laws in favor of their customs.  NO WAY.  So i don't know what you are talking about.  In the end, in this country she can CHOOSE if she wants.

There are many documented instances of Muslim women in the western world having absolutely no clue of the rights that are afforded them. France denied a Muslim woman citizenship a few years ago because she was so ignorant of the rights she was afforded because her Muslim husband literally kept her locked in their house. She didn't even know that she was allowed to leave her house without a male present, that she didn't have to wear the full veil nor did she have any idea about the other rights the French constitution alloted her.

The full veil is, has been, and will continue to be nothing more than a tool used to subjugate women. And most Muslim women wouldn't wear it if they didn't have to.

[George Whorewell]

But in AMERICA,  she is free to leave.  And if she gets beat up the husband is charged with assault and is NOT protected by the law as he would be in another country.

You act as if they are not subject to our laws in favor of their customs.  NO WAY.  So i don't know what you are talking about.  In the end, in this country she can CHOOSE if she wants.

Can a teenage girl being forced to have a circumscision CHOOSE to run to the authorities in America and leave her parents. Of course. But then she will be alinated by her entire family, placed in foster care and end up leading a pretty shitty life--- and that's if shes lucky and her parents don't somehow regain custody. Can a subjegated and abused woman briainwashed by fanatics CHOOSE to leave her husband in America? Sure. If he doesn't kill her in the process before, during or after her departure. If she doesn't mind being ostracized by her family, her community and her friends. If there is the issue of children that complicates things further. And, as in most cases where a woman wears a Burqa, chances are she has no education, no skills, no job experience and nothing to offer an employer- so chances are she is financially dependant on her husband as well.


Choice doesn't mean anything if you are incapable of utilizing the alternative toward anything meaningful. What kinds of choices are there exactly?

[OzmO]

There are many documented instances of Muslim women in the western world having absolutely no clue of the rights that are afforded them. France denied a Muslim woman citizenship a few years ago because she was so ignorant of the rights she was afforded because her Muslim husband literally kept her locked in their house. She didn't even know that she was allowed to leave her house without a male present, that she didn't have to wear the full veil nor did she have any idea about the other rights the French constitution alloted her.

The full veil is, has been, and will continue to be nothing more than a tool used to subjugate women. And most Muslim women wouldn't wear it if they didn't have to.

We are talking about America, not the socialist Republic of France who's motto is "We Give Up"

[Fury]

We are talking about America, not the socialist Republic of France who's motto is "We Give Up"

And you think it's any different in America? How about the Muslim girl whose father ran her down with his car a few months ago in Arizona for becoming too westernized? And that's not the only incident. 

[George Whorewell]

We are talking about America, not the socialist Republic of France who's motto is "We Give Up"

The Socialist Republic of France is doing a whole hell of a lot more than we are these days to correct the scourge of fundamentalist Islam in its midst. 

[OzmO]

Can a teenage girl being forced to have a circumscision CHOOSE to run to the authorities in America and leave her parents. Of course. But then she will be alinated by her entire family, placed in foster care and end up leading a pretty shitty life--- and that's if shes lucky and her parents don't somehow regain custody.

Has that ever happened?  I think in this country the parents would be tried for assault and child endangerment and lose permanently lose custody of their children.  

Can a subjegated and abused woman briainwashed by fanatics CHOOSE to leave her husband in America? Sure. If he doesn't kill her in the process before, during or after her departure. If she doesn't mind being ostracized by her family, her community and her friends. If there is the issue of children that complicates things further. And, as in most cases where a woman wears a Burqa, chances are she has no education, no skills, no job experience and nothing to offer an employer- so chances are she is financially dependant on her husband as well.

Your points might be true, although seemingly extreme, BUT in America she will protected and influenced far greater than she would be in another country and there are people who will help her out of her situation if she chooses.  

Choice doesn't mean anything if you are incapable of utilizing the alternative toward anything meaningful. What kinds of choices are there exactly?

Choice does mean a lot IF you have laws that protect those choices.  that's what we have here in America.  

And the same scenario happens with some white-cultured abusive marriages.  


Remember we are talking about America, not France, not other countries.  

[OzmO]

And you think it's any different in America? How about the Muslim girl whose father ran her down with his car a few months ago in Arizona for becoming too westernized? And that's not the only incident.  

Was the Muslim Father allowed to go free without consequences?

That's the point here.  WE have laws for crap like that.  If not then i have a problem with that.

[OzmO]

The Socialist Republic of France is doing a whole hell of a lot more than we are these days to correct the scourge of fundamentalist Islam in its midst. 

Are they?  From what I've heard in Europe it's almost like a second middle east.  I could be wrong.  But anything you cited there is against the law.  And you'll go to prison for circumcising your daughter. 

[OzmO]

We have had this discussion before on Getbig, what happens here is no where close to happens in Europe.  Yes, you have the occasional nut job like Berserker talked about, but by and far its not like it is there.  I live in a very highly Muslim populated area (n. California)

[Fury]

Has that ever happened?  I think in this country the parents would be tried for assault and child endangerment and lose permanently lose custody of their children.  

The APA just said that a small knick to a girl's clitoris should be allowed (what a small knick is is beyond anyone's guess) and only recanted it after a lot of outrage. This is just one example in a long line of them in the USA's pandering to islamist psychopaths.

And you may think a father running his daughter down is a rare, isolated incident but they're are more than you think, and they're increasing at an alarming rate. But it's not surprising given that the pro-Muslim islamofascist MSM doesn't report on all but the most grotesque of these incidents.

[kcballer]

What happens with the rapes, beatings and murders from Christian raised people?  Do we demonize their heritage or religion or do we talk about the character of the person rather than stereotype?

[Skip8282]

What happens with the rapes, beatings and murders from Christian raised people?  Do we demonize their heritage or religion or do we talk about the character of the person rather than stereotype?

It's almost like you don't even live in this country.  Of course if people are raped, beaten, and murdered in the name of Christianity we hear all kinds of crap about how bad Christianity is, etc. 

Hell, Christians don't even have to commit crimes to be demonized.  Just watch a Bill Maher episode.  I can see that and I'm an atheist for fucks sake.

[Skip8282]

But in AMERICA,  she is free to leave.  And if she gets beat up the husband is charged with assault and is NOT protected by the law as he would be in another country.

You act as if they are not subject to our laws in favor of their customs.  NO WAY.  So i don't know what you are talking about.  In the end, in this country she can CHOOSE if she wants.

It doesn't break down that simply, not even close.  We have to attend classes at work where they discuss battered women and how many battered women are much too afraid to get out of the relationship.  I don't know the exact percentages, but suggesting that it's a simple as she's free to leave, is very misleading.  Not too mention if she's a fundamentalist she may not even have a basic education to be able to get work, etc.

[OzmO]

The APA just said that a small knick to a girl's clitoris should be allowed (what a small knick is is beyond anyone's guess) and only recanted it after a lot of outrage. This is just one example in a long line of them in the USA's pandering to islamist psychopaths.

And you may think a father running his daughter down is a rare, isolated incident but they're are more than you think, and they're increasing at an alarming rate. But it's not surprising given that the pro-Muslim islamofascist MSM doesn't report on all but the most grotesque of these incidents.

a small nick in the clit?   They actually tried to pass that?  Good thing its the USA  : )

If they are increasing can you provide any tangible data on that or is that just an assumption or spin from your sources?

[OzmO]

It doesn't break down that simply, not even close.  We have to attend classes at work where they discuss battered women and how many battered women are much too afraid to get out of the relationship.  I don't know the exact percentages, but suggesting that it's a simple as she's free to leave, is very misleading.  Not too mention if she's a fundamentalist she may not even have a basic education to be able to get work, etc.

But it stills falls into the fact that we have laws against that stuff and it happens in "christian" families too.   Abuse happens everywhere and the problems are similar.


the point is we are NOT changing our laws to accommodate a culture that supports abusing women.  At least as far as i know, can you show me any instances?


You also brought up a point about her not having basic education, and that falls in line with why we need to insist every one speaks/reads English in this country.

[OzmO]

I hope you all don't think i am trying to defend any of this crap. 

My argument is simply that our laws are not being superseded to accommodate other cultures when it comes to things like abuse.

[Soul Crusher]

How about how I am told that I have to accept mexicans sitting on stoops all day on the street drinking and sitting around like its Mexico city/

Or how about that living 20 to a room is perfectly acceptable and the building department wont do anything for fear of claims of discrimination?  

How about letting Peurto Ricans and West Indians at the West Indian day parade in NYC smoke weed and drink in the street as part of their culture, but come St Patricks' day the cops are all over the place?  

How about having to endure English as a second language everywhere?  

and on and on and on and on.  

[OzmO]

How about how I am told that I have to accept mexicans sitting on stoops all day on the street drinking and sitting around like its Mexico city/

Or how about that living 20 to a room is perfectly acceptable and the building department wont do anything for fear of claims of discrimination?  

How about letting Peurto Ricans and West Indians at the West Indian day parade in NYC smoke weed and drink in the street as part of their culture, but come St Patricks' day the cops are all over the place?  

How about having to endure English as a second language everywhere?  

and on and on and on and on.  

Are there laws against drinking in public?  If they are violated then they should be charged.  If not, then you have a right to petition your law maker to get the law changed.

Is it against the to smoke weed in public? 

You and i agree about the language issue, but people are free to speak what ever language they want.  Are you suggesting it be against the law to speak another language in america?

[Soul Crusher]

No, but I believe we should declare English the national language. 

[24KT]

How about how I am told that I have to accept mexicans sitting on stoops all day on the street drinking and sitting around like its Mexico city/

Or how about that living 20 to a room is perfectly acceptable and the building department wont do anything for fear of claims of discrimination?  

How about letting Peurto Ricans and West Indians at the West Indian day parade in NYC smoke weed and drink in the street as part of their culture, but come St Patricks' day the cops are all over the place?  

How about having to endure English as a second language everywhere?  

and on and on and on and on.  

Since when is smoking weed in public part of West Indian culture.... although you can do it in Ontario and the result is a ticket similar to a minor parking infraction. We haven't gone to hell yet.

As for experiencing English as a second language... you ought to visit Quebec.
It's really not all that big a deal. Although it is a pain in the ass when you call into Quebec, and the first part of the message on their PBX is in French, and you have to wait until they deliver the message in English to know which button to push to get to the right dept.

[OzmO]

No, but I believe we should declare English the national language. 

You and I are in agreement here, but the rest of the stuff you listed seems baseless. 

[Fury]

Since when is smoking weed in public part of West Indian culture.... although you can do it in Ontario and the result is a ticket similar to a minor parking infraction. We haven't gone to hell yet.

As for experiencing English as a second language... you ought to visit Quebec.
It's really not all that big a deal. Although it is a pain in the ass when you call into Quebec, and the first part of the message on their PBX is in French, and you have to wait until they deliver the message in English to know which button to push to get to the right dept.

You're right, it's not a big deal. Would that explain why 40% of Quebec was in favor of seceding from Canada in the 80s?  

[24KT]

You're right, it's not a big deal. Would that explain why 40% of Quebec was in favor of seceding from Canada in the 80s?  

Actually, it was an attitude of English only or English as the dominant language that so upset Quebecois.
They were being engulfed in Anglophone culture. No such thing is occuring in the USA.
There is no way that main stream America is in danger of seeing their culture die in the same way the Quebecois were. It was the implementation of a french first language policy throughout Quebec, that reduced the tensions and separatist sentiment, while also ensuring their language would not die. As for other Quebecois cultural tenets... I don't think anybody really cares these days if you prefer to eat chicken noodle soup and fish & chips over pea soup and poutine. But you do still have to always remember to put vinegar on your fries. It's a Canadian thing.  

btw - It actually went up to 49.5% in favour of separation in 1995 and the numbers have been steadily dropping ever since.

[Emmortal]

Are they?  From what I've heard in Europe it's almost like a second middle east.  I could be wrong.  But anything you cited there is against the law.  And you'll go to prison for circumcising your daughter. 

There's a bill up for legislation now in France that will outlaw the use of Berkas in public and any woman wearing one will be fined and forced to take a class on French Culture and Values.  If it's found that the husband has forced her to wear it he will be heavily fined and face jail time.

I haven't heard what the status of the bill is at this point, but it won't surprise me if it passes.