Author Topic: Teacher Fired For Having Sex Out Of Wedlock  (Read 11395 times)

The Showstoppa

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Re: Teacher Fired For Having Sex Out Of Wedlock
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2010, 06:14:27 AM »
The school has every right to terminate her for breaking the moral code.  It's a private school.  Next case....

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Re: Teacher Fired For Having Sex Out Of Wedlock
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2010, 07:30:45 AM »
I think it's ridiculous, and none of their business, and she should have told them to fuck off when asked.

Since she has already admitted to becoming pregnant prior to her marriage, ...she should have simply said:
"Ya, I got pregnant before I was married, ...but I was a virgin, and it was an immaculate conception."  ;D

How could they have argued with that? I mean, ...it's not like such a thing wasn't without precedent in their eyes.

I hope she wins her lawsuit!
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MCWAY

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Re: Teacher Fired For Having Sex Out Of Wedlock
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2010, 07:34:45 AM »
I think it's ridiculous, and none of their business, and she should have told them to fuck off when asked.

WRONG, Jaggie!!! Once she signed that paperwork and agreed to abide by the school's conduct rules (both on and off campus), IT BECOMES THEIR BUSINESS!!!

The same rules would apply for adulterous behavior or homosexual behavior (i.e. those girls that got booted from Cal Lutheran for being lesbians).


Since she has already admitted to becoming pregnant prior to her marriage, ...she should have simply said:
"Ya, I got pregnant before I was married, ...but I was a virgin, and it was an immaculate conception."  ;D

How could they have argued with that? I mean, ...it's not like such a thing wasn't without precedent in their eyes.

I hope she wins her lawsuit!

Based on what? As Showstoppa said, if she agreed to abide by the school's moral code (this may come as a shock to you, but that doesn't end once you leave work) and broke it, that's grounds for termination.


LurkerNoMore

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Re: Teacher Fired For Having Sex Out Of Wedlock
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2010, 07:49:38 AM »
Based on what? As Showstoppa said, if she agreed to abide by the school's moral code



Was their moral code specific on sex before marriage?  Was it defined?  That would be defining argument.

However, all being said she should have used better judgment and kept her mouth shut.

MCWAY

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Re: Teacher Fired For Having Sex Out Of Wedlock
« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2010, 08:04:40 AM »
Was their moral code specific on sex before marriage?  Was it defined?  That would be defining argument.

However, all being said she should have used better judgment and kept her mouth shut.

I don't know. The school's website is down. However, having attend Christian schools most of my childhood and having sent my kids to them, I know firsthand that school handbooks and codes of conduct cover appropriate sexual behavior for the students and the teachers.

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Re: Teacher Fired For Having Sex Out Of Wedlock
« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2010, 08:09:47 AM »
WRONG, Jaggie!!! Once she signed that paperwork and agreed to abide by the school's conduct rules (both on and off campus), IT BECOMES THEIR BUSINESS!!!

What do you mean WRONG? Are you saying that what I stated is not what I think?
Because I can assure you I do indeed think the whole thing is ridiculous and none of their damned business.

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The same rules would apply for adulterous behavior or homosexual behavior (i.e. those girls that got booted from Cal Lutheran for being lesbians).

Based on what? As Showstoppa said, if she agreed to abide by the school's moral code (this may come as a shock to you, but that doesn't end once you leave work) and broke it, that's grounds for termination.

I hope she wins based on the law which prohibits discrimination based on sex and/or marital status among other things. If you can't discrimate on the basis of marital status, or sex... hopefully they will not be allowed to discriminate on the basis of her having sex without marital status.   :D

She might have agreed to certain stipulations, and she might have signed a contract, however, people are not always legally bound by or subject to everything they agree to, ...especially when these agreements are determined to be in conflict with their rights. It is not unusual for courts to decide that despite a contract, sections of contracts have been found to be illegal and therefore non applicable, or null & void. Hence the need for lawyers to always include a caveat stating that "if any section or part of this agreement is found to be invalid, such invalidity shall apply specifically to that or those sections alone and will not invalidate the entire contract yada yada yadda

ie: In the province of Ontario, I can sign a lease wherein it states I will supply the landlord with post dated cheques, and I agree to this. If at any time I change my mind and decide NOT to supply post dated cheques, there is nothing the landlord can do. Infact, if s/he knows whats good for them, ...there is absolutely nothing they will do, because in this province it is not only illegal for a landlord to demand this, ...they can infact be fined for doing so. That being the case, it simply makes that provision in the lease agreement null & void, but it does not invalidate the entire lease agreement. I cannot get out of paying the lease on that basis, or any other lawful responsibility or obligation I bear under it, and a landlord cannot break the lease or fail to renew it, or live up to any of their other obligations in the lease on the basis that I renegged on supplying post dated cheques. It is not considered a material breach of the agreement because the stipulation was unlawful and invalid to begin with.

As far as moral codes go... they are rather subjective and often come down to community standards.
Two consenting heterosexual adults (of the opposite sex) in a committed monogamous relationship with each other, having sex out of and immediately prior to wedlock does not fall outside of general community standards in the USA in 2010. In a land that prides itself on the separation of church & state, any judicial body adjudicating this case would have to rely on secular community standards and not religious ones. She does have legal footing and I hope she wins.
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Re: Teacher Fired For Having Sex Out Of Wedlock
« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2010, 08:23:04 AM »
I don't know. The school's website is down. However, having attend Christian schools most of my childhood and having sent my kids to them, I know firsthand that school handbooks and codes of conduct cover appropriate sexual behavior for the students and the teachers.

Basically their actions are akin to Nike firing Tiger Woods for wearing Reebok shoes at home. 

MCWAY

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Re: Teacher Fired For Having Sex Out Of Wedlock
« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2010, 08:24:33 AM »
What do you mean WRONG? Are you saying that what I stated is not what I think?
Because I can assure you I do indeed think the whole thing is ridiculous and none of their damned business.

I am stating that your claim of it not being the school's business is WRONG, because she signed paperwork agreeing to abide by the school's moral conduct code (they tend to have those at Christian schools), BOTH ON and OFF duty, so to speak.


I hope she wins based on the law which prohibits discrimination based on sex and/or marital status among other things. If you can't discrimate on the basis of marital status, or sex... hopefully they will not be allowed to discriminate on the basis of her having sex without marital status.   :D

If violation of that moral conduct code is grounds for termination, it doesn't matter whether she was screwing some guy she met a local restaurant or her fiancee'. Bottom line: She was fornicating. If you signed the dotted line agreeing not to do that, as an employee of the school (whether or school time or not) and you break that rule, the school can axe you.

Even if she were married, if she's found to be getting boned by someone other than her hubby, SHE'S GONE!!


She might have agreed to certain stipulations, and she might have signed a contract, however, people are not always legally bound by or subject to everything they agree to, ...especially when these agreements are determined to be in conflict with their rights. It is not unusual for courts to decide that despite a contract, sections of contracts have been found to be illegal and therefore non applicable, or null & void. Hence the need for lawyers to always include a caveat stating that "if any section or part of this agreement is found to be invalid, such invalidity shall apply specifically to that or those sections alone and will not invalidate the entire contract yada yada yadda

And, what makes this contract null and void, other than your angst with people not being able to screw around without consequence? To me, this is similar to that Cal Lutheran case, in which that particular school won at the appeals and state court level, regarding its right to kick out two lesbians for violating its schools sexual and moral conduct code.


ie: In the province of Ontario, I can sign a lease wherein it states I will supply the landlord with post dated cheques, and I agree to this. If at any time I change my mind and decide NOT to supply post dated cheques, there is nothing the landlord can do. Infact, if s/he knows whats good for them, ...there is absolutely nothing they will do, because in this province it is not only illegal for a landlord to demand this, ...they can infact be fined for doing so. That being the case, it simply makes that provision in the lease agreement null & void, but it does not invalidate the entire lease agreement. I cannot get out of paying the lease on that basis, or any other lawful responsibility or obligation I bear under it, and a landlord cannot break the lease or fail to renew it, or live up to any of their other obligations in the lease on the basis that I renegged on supplying post dated cheques. It is not considered a material breach of the agreement because the stipulation was unlawful and invalid to begin with.

Ummm......this ain't Ontario. This went down in the Sunshine State, my home!!!


As far as moral codes go... they are rather subjective and often come down to community standards.
Two consenting heterosexual adults (of the opposite sex) in a committed monogamous relationship with each other, having sex out of and immediately prior to wedlock does not fall outside of general community standards in the USA in 2010. In a land that prides itself on the separation of church & state, any judicial body adjudicating this case would have to rely on secular community standards and not religious ones. She does have legal footing and I hope she wins.

The community standards, at least with this school, were quite clear. And this young lady agreed to abide by them, in exchange for gainful employment.

Plus, the USA doesn't "pride itself on the separation of church and state". That is the flap, mostly, of people on the left. With that said, THIS IS A PRIVATE CHRISITAN SCHOOL, which means you play by its rules, if you wish to be a student or teacher there.

If you work at a Christian school and agree not to engage in sexual activity out of wedlock (or be subject to termination) and the principal find out, you've been blowing one of the guys in your neighborhood....YOU ARE GONE!!!!

Beach Bum is right.  If you don't want to adhere to a moral code, don't work for a religious organization. 

Why do folks like you, not expect people WHO WORK AT CHRISTIAN INSTITUTIONS to abide by Christian rules? Your complaints are quite absurd.


24KT

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Re: Teacher Fired For Having Sex Out Of Wedlock
« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2010, 08:54:19 AM »
I am stating that your claim of it not being the school's business is WRONG, because she signed paperwork agreeing to abide by the school's moral conduct code (they tend to have those at Christian schools), BOTH ON and OFF duty, so to speak.

I didn't make a claim that it was not of their business. I simply stated that "I THOUGHT it was none of their business." As well as being ridiculous.
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VV

I think it's ridiculous, and none of their business, and she should have told them to fuck off when asked.

Since she has already admitted to becoming pregnant prior to her marriage, ...she should have simply said:
"Ya, I got pregnant before I was married, ...but I was a virgin, and it was an immaculate conception."  ;D

How could they have argued with that? I mean, ...it's not like such a thing wasn't without precedent in their eyes.

I hope she wins her lawsuit!


Quote
If violation of that moral conduct code is grounds for termination, it doesn't matter whether she was screwing some guy she met a local restaurant or her fiancee'. Bottom line: She was fornicating. If you signed the dotted line agreeing not to do that, as an employee of the school (whether or school time or not) and you break that rule, the school can axe you.

Only if she accepts it, and the courts uphold it. The fact that she is suing is a big indicator she doesn't accept this.

Quote
And, what makes this contract null and void, other than your angst with people not being able to screw around without consequence? To me, this is similar to that Cal Lutheran case, in which that particular school won at the appeals and state court level, regarding its right to kick out two lesbians for violating its schools sexual and moral conduct code.

To you it might seem similar, however I see a big difference. In the case of the Cal Lutheran students, they were for want of a better term, flaunting their lifestyle and interacting with their fellow students as peers. A teacher does not bring her sex life into the classroom (except maybe Mary Kay Letourneau) What she did with her fiancé prior to her marriage is not something her students would be privy to, and would have no knowledge of... especially in light of her subsequent marriage. She could hardly be deemed to be "teaching, or promoting a lifestyle that goes counter to school philosophy." And furthermore, she shouldn't have even been asked. To enquire alone is to overstep their bounds.

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Ummm......this ain't Ontario. This went down in the Sunshine State, my home!!!

I well realize this did not go down in Ontario. We're neither that backward nor as judgemental.
I was simply providing an example of how a contracted agreement could be considered invalid.
Which sunshine state are you referring to? California or Florida?

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The community standards, at least with this school, were quite clear. And this young lady agreed to abide by them, in exchange for gainful employment.

Which in many ways could be considered coersive undue pressure to enter into an illegal or invalid agreement.

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Plus, the USA doesn't "pride itself on the separation of church and state". That is the flap, mostly, of people on the left.

Hahaha... which USA are you living in?

Quote
With that said, THIS IS A PRIVATE CHRISITAN SCHOOL, which means you play by its rules, if you wish to be a student or teacher there.

If you work at a Christian school and agree not to engage in sexual activity out of wedlock (or be subject to termination) and the principal find out, you've been blowing one of the guys in your neighborhood....YOU ARE GONE!!!!

Neither YOU nor I will decide if she was rightfully or wrongfully terminated, the courts will.

I still think she should go with the immaculate conception. I mean really... what could they say?
Surely they wouldn't argue that it was impossible would they? I mean... if it was good enough for Mary...  :D

BTW McWay, ...were you a virgin on your wedding night? Was your wife?
w

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Re: Teacher Fired For Having Sex Out Of Wedlock
« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2010, 09:01:00 AM »
Jag, you are one stupid bitch. Please, for the love off all things sacred, shut the fuck up already.

MCWAY

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Re: Teacher Fired For Having Sex Out Of Wedlock
« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2010, 09:06:24 AM »
I didn't make a claim that it was not of their business. I simply stated that "I THOUGHT it was none of their business." As well as being ridiculous.
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VV

Only if she accepts it, and the courts uphold it. The fact that she is suing is a big indicator she doesn't accept this.

It doesn't matter if she accepts this or not. Oakland Raiders fans don't accept that the Bucs kicked their behind in Super Bowl XXXVII.


To you it might seem similar, however I see a big difference. In the case of the Cal Lutheran students, they were for want of a better term, flaunting their lifestyle and interacting with their fellow students as peers. A teacher does not bring her sex life into the classroom (except maybe Mary Kay Letourno {sp}) What she did with her fiancé prior to her marriage is not something her students would be privy to, and would have no knowledge of... especially in light of her subsequent marriage. She could hardly be deemed to be "teaching, or promoting a lifestyle that goes counter to school philosophy." And furthermore, she shouldn't have even been asked. To enquire alone is to overstep their bounds.

A CHRISTIAN teacher is held to a much higher standard. He or she is required to behave in a manner, in conjuction with Scripture when it comes to persona conduct, ESPECIALLY as it relates to sexual behavior.


I well realize this did not go down in Ontario. We're not that backward & judgemental.

Well, in the USA, we actually expect people to abide by the contracts they sign, not blubber and make excuses for people not abiding by their word.


Which sunshine state are you refering to? California or Florida?

PLEASE!!! There's only one "Sunshine State", FLORIDA. California is known as the "Golden State".


Which in many ways could be considered coersive undue pressure to enter into an illegal or invalid agreement.

WHAT!! There is nothing coersive about signing a moral code contract, especially considering the likelihood (based on the article) that she believed in many tenets of the Christian faith.


Hahaha... which USA are you living in?

The one I've lived in the past 37 years. The one, that allows us to express our religious beliefs freely in the public square, in concordance with the Constitution. The one that allows displays of the Ten Commandments, has "One nation under God", in its Pledge of Allegiance, even the one that has liberals like you, suddently getting the Holy Ghost, during election cycles (see Nancy Pelosi's "The Word" comments).


Neither YOU nor I will decide if she was rightfully or wrongfully terminated, the courts will.

And, the courts will likely decide with the school.


I still think she should go with the immaculate conception. I mean really... what could they say?
Surely they wouldn't argue that it was impossible would they? I mean... if it was good enough for Mary...  :D


Ummmm....yes they woudl, especially considering that SHE ALREADY ADMITTED TO HAVING SEX WITH HER FIANCEE'.


BTW McWay, ...were you a virgin on your wedding night? Was your wife?

Since we had sex with each other that night, that would be a "NO"! Not that's such is your business or germaine to the conversation at hand.

boonasty

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Re: Teacher Fired For Having Sex Out Of Wedlock
« Reply #36 on: June 11, 2010, 10:46:26 AM »

Since we had sex with each other that night, that would be a "NO"!


 ;D

24KT

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Re: Teacher Fired For Having Sex Out Of Wedlock
« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2010, 12:51:41 PM »
It doesn't matter if she accepts this or not. Oakland Raiders fans don't accept that the Bucs kicked their behind in Super Bowl XXXVII.

Well I think it will be up to the courts.

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A CHRISTIAN teacher is held to a much higher standard. He or she is required to behave in a manner, in conjuction with Scripture when it comes to persona conduct, ESPECIALLY as it relates to sexual behavior.

So you think she should be stoned like in the bible?
...or do you think that he who is without sin should cast the first stone?

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Well, in the USA, we actually expect people to abide by the contracts they sign, not blubber and make excuses for people not abiding by their word.

Since when? If that was the case, Bush (GH) would have been impeached over "Read My lips"
Why didn't you guys impeach Bush GH or GW? Why is Sandford still governor of South Carolina?

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PLEASE!!! There's only one "Sunshine State", FLORIDA. California is known as the "Golden State".

Thanks for that clarification. I always get the two confused. When you see as much snow as I do,
...any state that has an average year round temperature higher than 5 degrees is considered the sunshine state in my eyes.  ;D

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The one I've lived in the past 37 years. The one, that allows us to express our religious beliefs freely in the public square, in concordance with the Constitution. The one that allows displays of the Ten Commandments, has "One nation under God", in its Pledge of Allegiance, even the one that has liberals like you, suddently getting the Holy Ghost, during election cycles (see Nancy Pelosi's "The Word" comments).

And, the courts will likely decide with the school.

They may, ...or they may not.
Whichever way it goes, ...I won't be crying a river over it if it doesn't go the way I'd like to see it go.

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Ummmm....yes they woudl, especially considering that SHE ALREADY ADMITTED TO HAVING SEX WITH HER FIANCEE'.

Maybe she meant it like Jimmy Carter when he admitted to "having committed adultery in his mind"  ;D

Do you have the branding iron all heated up for her, ...or will a scarlet letter satisfy your judgemental nature?

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Since we had sex with each other that night, that would be a "NO"! Not that's such is your business or germaine to the conversation at hand.

LOL. nice aversion. The prissy way you answered that actually reminded me of Beach Bum for a minute.

Let me restate the question.

Were you and your wife both virgins the day before you got married?
...or more precisely, did you have sex with your wife prior to marriage.
Did you have sex with anyone prior to your marriage? Did your wife?
w

boonasty

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Re: Teacher Fired For Having Sex Out Of Wedlock
« Reply #38 on: June 11, 2010, 02:51:47 PM »


Were you and your wife both virgins the day before you got married?
...or more precisely, did you have sex with your wife prior to marriage.
Did you have sex with anyone prior to your marriage? Did your wife?



jaguar, why are you asking these questions?

i didn't read the entire thread but did mcway sign a contract saying he would be a virgin the day before he got married?

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Re: Teacher Fired For Having Sex Out Of Wedlock
« Reply #39 on: June 11, 2010, 03:26:02 PM »


jaguar, why are you asking these questions?

i didn't read the entire thread but did mcway sign a contract saying he would be a virgin the day before he got married?

Tell me about it.  Asking about the man's personal sex history?   ::)

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Re: Teacher Fired For Having Sex Out Of Wedlock
« Reply #40 on: June 11, 2010, 07:18:15 PM »
I don't understand why these schools don't weigh the cost/benefit of these things.

It's not like the woman is having the kid out of wedlock and there's no way anyone is going to be able to figure out the kid was conceived a few weeks before she was married (and she's 39 for christsakes so I think it's safe to say it wasn't the first time she had sex either).

Frankly, I like shit like this because it shines a national spotlight on the absurdity and intolerance and stupidity of fundie religious folks


Straw Man

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Re: Teacher Fired For Having Sex Out Of Wedlock
« Reply #41 on: June 11, 2010, 07:25:02 PM »
I just read this story, yesterday. To me, it's one of those judgment calls things there. It's grounds for termination, but it was her future hubby. From the looks of their policy, the school reserves the right for a less harsh discipline. Perhaps, that would have been a better route to go.

where did you look a their policy

can you post a link?

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Re: Teacher Fired For Having Sex Out Of Wedlock
« Reply #42 on: June 12, 2010, 01:55:21 AM »


jaguar, why are you asking these questions?

i didn't read the entire thread but did mcway sign a contract saying he would be a virgin the day before he got married?

Yes he did... when he gave his life to Jeebus.  :D
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Re: Teacher Fired For Having Sex Out Of Wedlock
« Reply #43 on: June 12, 2010, 01:58:33 AM »
Tell me about it.  Asking about the man's personal sex history?   ::)

I hardly think he has any grounds to object.  :-\ That would be a little hypocritical on his part wouldn't you say?
He clearly thinks it's ok for school officials to ask that woman about her sexual history?
What's good for the goose is good for the gander no? or does he not believe in the golden rule?
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Re: Teacher Fired For Having Sex Out Of Wedlock
« Reply #44 on: June 12, 2010, 02:13:17 AM »
thin end of the wedge as far as I'm concerned - people should be secure in their jobs as long as they haven't done anything illegal or against company policy - but company policy should never extend to ones private life

boonasty

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Re: Teacher Fired For Having Sex Out Of Wedlock
« Reply #45 on: June 12, 2010, 08:58:35 AM »
Yes he did... when he gave his life to Jeebus.  :D


when was that? 

and how is doing that signing a contract to be a virgin the day before he married?



I hardly think he has any grounds to object.  :-\ That would be a little hypocritical on his part wouldn't you say?
He clearly thinks it's ok for school officials to ask that woman about her sexual history?
What's good for the goose is good for the gander no? or does he not believe in the golden rule?

the point is the woman signed some contract and broke it.

i personally wouldn't sign that contract but she did. 

she broke her contract which she had signed and agreed to the terms. 

what does that have to do with mcway's sex life?

 

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Re: Teacher Fired For Having Sex Out Of Wedlock
« Reply #46 on: June 12, 2010, 09:08:29 AM »

when was that? 

and how is doing that signing a contract to be a virgin the day before he married?



the point is the woman signed some contract and broke it.

i personally wouldn't sign that contract but she did. 

she broke her contract which she had signed and agreed to the terms. 

what does that have to do with mcway's sex life?

 

I can't find the link where it says she signed a contract that specified she wouldnt have premarital sex

Is there any link to that or even just any info on the contract she signed?

boonasty

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Re: Teacher Fired For Having Sex Out Of Wedlock
« Reply #47 on: June 12, 2010, 09:22:42 AM »
I can't find the link where it says she signed a contract that specified she wouldnt have premarital sex

Is there any link to that or even just any info on the contract she signed?


Teacher Fired After Getting Pregnant Before Wedding
Wednesday, June 09, 2010 8:44:32 AM

 
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Video
Teacher Fired Over Pregnancy
Reported by Nick VinZant

ST. CLOUD -- A former teacher said she is suing a private school in Osceola County for discrimination after she was fired because she got pregnant about three weeks before her wedding.

Last April, Jaretta Hamilton walked into the principal’s office at Southland Christian School and told officials she was pregnant.  She was fired a short time later.

According to a complaint filed, Hamilton is suing the school for violating her civil rights.

She claims that school officials discriminated against her on the basis of medical condition and marital status.

The school said they fired Hamilton over what they called a moral issue of premarital sex, not the pregnancy itself.

School administrators declined to go on camera, but they said that Hamilton was fully aware of school policy forbidding sex before marriage.

Sources inside the school said in order for Hamilton to work there, she had to sign a contract promising that she would follow certain Christian beliefs -- one of which is no premarital sex.

By violating that contract, sources said the school had no choice but to fire her in order to set a proper Christian example.

Officials at the school said because they are a private Christian school, they are protected from certain civil rights violations.

Hamilton said the entire incident has caused her severe emotional and financial distress.

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2010/6/8/teacher_fired_after_getting_pregnant_before_wedding.html?cid=rss

Straw Man

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Re: Teacher Fired For Having Sex Out Of Wedlock
« Reply #48 on: June 12, 2010, 10:01:22 AM »
I wish someone would post a copy of that contract

It would be interesting to see all the other requirements

I wonder if it's retroactive....i.e. can you have premarital sex before you work there but then agree that you won't do it after your employment starts.


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Re: Teacher Fired For Having Sex Out Of Wedlock
« Reply #49 on: June 12, 2010, 11:22:05 AM »
I hardly think he has any grounds to object.  :-\ That would be a little hypocritical on his part wouldn't you say?
He clearly thinks it's ok for school officials to ask that woman about her sexual history?
What's good for the goose is good for the gander no? or does he not believe in the golden rule?

How about you address the subject of the story and not McWay's sex life.   ::)