Do you feel bad for BP shareholders?

[240 is Back]

They bought stock in a very risky, yet very profitable company.

BP actually averages a little over $5 billion profit PER QUARTER.  Stockholders have enjoyed insane profits for the last 10 years.  But they also chose a company with 50 to 100 times the safety violations of other, less profitable oil firms.  Remember John Stewart demonstrating the $ of BP safety violations?  It dwarfed all the other companies combined.  They get penalized constantly, and don't change things -cheaper to just pay fines.

BP plays it fast and loose, and everyone got rich for a long time.  Now, they did screw up, they did make a big mess.  Obama isn't talking about locking people up.  Rather, he wants them to donate $20 bil - or about ONE YEAR OF PROFITS - toward cleaning up the mess and helping those people who lost their jobs due to the oil.  And, with only 1% of the oil making landfall so far, this mess might be HUGE.  They have 4 years to cough up the $, so only 1/4 of BP shareholder payouts will suffer for the next 4 years.

BP had the $20 bil sitting there in a slush fund already, so it's not like they're giong to the poorhouse.

So if you buy stock in a risky company, and one year, you don't make profits because you're cleaning up a mess you made... what is wrong with that picture?  I think people would be MORE mad if BP sitll made billions in profits, they paid out all the dividends, and they told the fisherman to fck off...

Where do you stand? 

[240 is Back]

I love listening to Rush.  But today, I actually got mad and had to turn it off.

he spent 10 straight minutes talking about how unfair it was to BP shareholders.  I don't understand.  He wants them to pay for the mess they made.  He's not taking over.  He's not brekaing them up, and this will probably actually prevent them from going bankrupt.

Is this because many of Rush's listeners are possibly Bp shareholders?  Their impact will be spread over 4 years - and they did choose to invest in the oil company with the most safety violations.

I don't follow... Does Rush just want the govt to clean up BP's mess?  I have to think - if Obama had let big $ donor BP hide/lose/spend all the money, then they could play broke when people sued... I think Rush would criticize that move too.


Anyway, I can't find any angle where taking the $ from BP's slash fun/emergency account, and using it to clean the mess they made - is a bad thing.  Can you?

[Fury]

I feel bad for the British people whose pension funds were heavily invested in BP. As for the shareholders, this is part of the game.

[240 is Back]

I feel bad for the British people whose pension funds were heavily invested in BP. As for the shareholders, this is part of the game.

Great point about the shareholders.

By pensions... you mean the employees of BP who just saw their retirement $ shrink greatly?
That's true.  I guess it's a risk when you work for a company who does some dangerous things, and you don't diversify your holdings.

At the same time - it's only $20 billion.... they make that every year in profits.  Even with the current stock deop... in ten years, BP stock hodlers will still be making $ hand over fist.

[Fury]

Great point about the shareholders.

By pensions... you mean the employees of BP who just saw their retirement $ shrink greatly?
That's true.  I guess it's a risk when you work for a company who does some dangerous things, and you don't diversify your holdings.

At the same time - it's only $20 billion.... they make that every year in profits.  Even with the current stock deop... in ten years, BP stock hodlers will still be making $ hand over fist.

No, I mean the nationalized British pension funds for the citizens or whatever the fuck they are (I haven't really read into it that much). BP accounts for something like 1 pound out of every 6 that the funds receive in dividend income every year. Hence why the British government isn't too happy with Obama.

I agree, though. I doubt this will kill BP. I don't even think they're a takeover target yet so they're not that bad off. Could be much worse, actually.

[240 is Back]

most companies don't have 20 bil in an emergency fund.  most companies don't earn 20 bil a year in profits.

IMO... given the long term damage... $20 bil might be a gift price for BP.

personally, I'd make them pay $50 bil over 6 years... they can get change back if there's anything left.  So many people here in south Fl are moving away now.  Their work on the beach is gone.  No oil yet - but people aren't booking trips to Fl anymore since they know it's on the way

[Skip8282]

I feel bad for the British people whose pension funds were heavily invested in BP. As for the shareholders, this is part of the game.

Are you an investor?  I heard the exact same thing from an investor today - "part of the game".  I do kinda feel bad for the shareholders.  I'm not too business savvy, but it seems like they are (or will be) taking a beating for this fuckup.

[Soul Crusher]

I don't.  BP got in bed with the Obama via the cap & trade scam, stim bill, bailouts, etc.  Tough shit.   

I feel bad for the old people though who probably did not know this stuff.   

[Skip8282]

I don't.  BP got in bed with the Obama via the cap & trade scam, stim bill, bailouts, etc.  Tough shit.   

I feel bad for the old people though who probably did not know this stuff.   

I guess that's who I'm thinking about when it comes to shareholders.  The big institutional investors I'm not feeling so bad for.

[Eyeball Chambers]

What do you think about buying BP stock when it hits rock bottom, the well is capped, and clean up efforts are well underway? 

[Emmortal]

What do you think about buying BP stock when it hits rock bottom, the well is capped, and clean up efforts are well underway? 

Might be a good buy.  They are a very profitable company and will bounce back from this even if it costs them the $20 billion.  They made $14 billion in profit last year alone so I think it will be a good buy once it levels out.

[BM OUT]

most companies don't have 20 bil in an emergency fund.  most companies don't earn 20 bil a year in profits.

IMO... given the long term damage... $20 bil might be a gift price for BP.

personally, I'd make them pay $50 bil over 6 years... they can get change back if there's anything left.  So many people here in south Fl are moving away now.  Their work on the beach is gone.  No oil yet - but people aren't booking trips to Fl anymore since they know it's on the way

ACCORDING TO LIBS,20 BILLION IS JUST A DOWNPAYMENT.dO YOU THINK ITS FAIR TO ASK BP TO PAY FOR OUT OF WORK OIL WORKERS BECAUSE BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA DECIDED TO BAN DRILLING?sHOULD THEY HAVE TO PAY FOR THAT FOOLS IDIOTIC DECISIONS AS WELL?Is that fair to shareholders?

[Dos Equis]

I don't really feel bad for any shareholder.  Anytime you invest there is the risk of loss, poor performance, fraud, etc. 

[big L dawg]

I feel sorry for this lion

[240 is Back]

I don't really feel bad for any shareholder.  Anytime you invest there is the risk of loss, poor performance, fraud, etc.  

Agreed 100%.

Especially given BP's very public and very long record for safety violations.  Investers knew what they were getting - a risky company with awesome payouts.

And yes, I think it's fair to have BP pay the $100 mil from this fund, to the oil workers who lost their jobs.  In another month or two, the Gulf is gonna be packed with oil, and the rigs will be shut down anyway - assuming they don't get very sick from the oil out there first.

Better to send them home now, til BP can fix the shitstorm it started.  Hell, BP made Four million $ PER DAY last year.  If they have to sacrifice a MONTHS' worth of profits for all of the good people that lost their jobs... that's more than fair

[BM OUT]

Agreed 100%.

Especially given BP's very public and very long record for safety violations.  Investers knew what they were getting - a risky company with awesome payouts.

And yes, I think it's fair to have BP pay the $100 mil from this fund, to the oil workers who lost their jobs.  In another month or two, the Gulf is gonna be packed with oil, and the rigs will be shut down anyway - assuming they don't get very sick from the oil out there first.

Better to send them home now, til BP can fix the shitstorm it started.  Hell, BP made Four million $ PER DAY last year.  If they have to sacrifice a MONTHS' worth of profits for all of the good people that lost their jobs... that's more than fair

100 MILLION IS A DROP IN THE BUCKET.Obama could decide to never lift the ban[a good bet]should BP pay for this mans foolish decisions?If a plane crashes ,do we ground the airline inddustry?This is extrortion plain and simple and you can bet in the end the 20 billion will find its way into union hands.

[240 is Back]

BILLY

I believe many of the rigs in the gulf will be affeected shortly by the oil as it spreads out.

I don't think the workers should have to sit on rigs and breathe that shit in.

I think this is a case of, "BP, you created what will very shortly be a hazardous work environment for these people - so we're sending them home, and you get to pay for it".


I don't understand any pity for BP - they dug a hole they couldn't plug, and the Gulf is going to be destroyed for years - or worse.  I think the pity comes from anti-Obama sentiment.  Anything he does - you choose the opposite point if view.  He could cure cancer, and you'd bitch about him causing overpopulation.

Bottom line - BP screwed up the gulf, and now they're paying for it.  What's the problem with that?

[Soul Crusher]

BILLY

I believe many of the rigs in the gulf will be affeected shortly by the oil as it spreads out.

I don't think the workers should have to sit on rigs and breathe that shit in.

I think this is a case of, "BP, you created what will very shortly be a hazardous work environment for these people - so we're sending them home, and you get to pay for it".


I don't understand any pity for BP - they dug a hole they couldn't plug, and the Gulf is going to be destroyed for years - or worse.  I think the pity comes from anti-Obama sentiment.  Anything he does - you choose the opposite point if view.  He could cure cancer, and you'd bitch about him causing overpopulation.

Bottom line - BP screwed up the gulf, and now they're paying for it.  What's the problem with that?

They are getting off easy here 240.  you wait.  Jamie Gorelick is representing BP, and she is probably dealing with her old buddy Rahmn on this. 

The fix is in bro. 

[12secGT]

I love listening to Rush.  But today, I actually got mad and had to turn it off.

he spent 10 straight minutes talking about how unfair it was to BP shareholders.  I don't understand.  He wants them to pay for the mess they made.  He's not taking over.  He's not brekaing them up, and this will probably actually prevent them from going bankrupt.

Is this because many of Rush's listeners are possibly Bp shareholders?  Their impact will be spread over 4 years - and they did choose to invest in the oil company with the most safety violations.

I don't follow... Does Rush just want the govt to clean up BP's mess?  I have to think - if Obama had let big $ donor BP hide/lose/spend all the money, then they could play broke when people sued... I think Rush would criticize that move too.


Anyway, I can't find any angle where taking the $ from BP's slash fun/emergency account, and using it to clean the mess they made - is a bad thing.  Can you?

I understand where he is coming from tho. Why should investors take the hit here? They weren't part of this spill. BP's upper brass was. But it is always a risk and that should have been understood.

[240 is Back]

I understand where he is coming from tho. Why should investors take the hit here? They weren't part of this spill. BP's upper brass was. But it is always a risk and that should have been understood.

Investors bought stock in a VERY profitable company that had somehting like 110 major safety violations last year... and Chevron has 1, and Exxon had 2.


BP has a HORRIBLE safety record - and they are very profitable because of it.


Shareholders should know this.  Part of owning ANY company's stock is the risk/reward.  You buy safe stock in companies, you dont' get a huge return.  You buy stock in a riskier firm that cuts corners, you make more $... but there will be more accidents.

If Obama 'bailed out' the share holders of BP - and said "We're going to pay your dividends", people would be on the streets rioting. 

Bottom line - they bought stock in a company with a very clear safety violation record - you buy the risk with a stock purchase in any firm.

[BM OUT]

BILLY

I believe many of the rigs in the gulf will be affeected shortly by the oil as it spreads out.

I don't think the workers should have to sit on rigs and breathe that shit in.

I think this is a case of, "BP, you created what will very shortly be a hazardous work environment for these people - so we're sending them home, and you get to pay for it".


I don't understand any pity for BP - they dug a hole they couldn't plug, and the Gulf is going to be destroyed for years - or worse.  I think the pity comes from anti-Obama sentiment.  Anything he does - you choose the opposite point if view.  He could cure cancer, and you'd bitch about him causing overpopulation.

Bottom line - BP screwed up the gulf, and now they're paying for it.  What's the problem with that?

Sorry your wrong.When the experts say dont stop drilling and Obama lies and says they told him to stop drilling and they sign their name to a document that Obama adds in the drilling ban AFTER they signed,thats just disgusting.

Its Obama who stopped the drilling.HE should pay for his ill thought out decision.THERE IS NO NEED TO STOP DRILLING!The experts all agree,the ban is dumb.Only liberal idiots agree with it.But your point is BP is reponsible so they should bare all the cost.

Ok,Obama is responsible for the stimulus,when will he pay us our money back as it is a TOTAL failure!!

[240 is Back]

So you think it's safe for people on the other oil rigs, as the plume slowly surrounds them?

I don't.   If I was working out there, and oil was everywhere, I'd be damn worried.

[BM OUT]

So you think it's safe for people on the other oil rigs, as the plume slowly surrounds them?

I don't.   If I was working out there, and oil was everywhere, I'd be damn worried.

Id want to work.This ban will NEVER be lifted and the jobs will be in Brazil thanks to Obama.

[Slapper]

Not for nothing, but if you are about to retire and are invested in the equity markets (ordinary or preferred shares of BP for example)... don't come crying when the markets show you their ugly face. Anyone with a clear mind knows that by the time you hit 55 you're supposed to have most of your investments in "secure" stuff (bonds, CDs and else).

Aside from this, whose "pension funds" are invested in BP? I'd say BP employees, some of whom are American, British citizens and hedge funds of all types and registrations.

Nonewithstanding, if you get burned big time with company A's disaster it's because you're not diversified enough.