In Law Schools, Grades Go Up Just Like That

[BayGBM]

Uh, YES.  I would think it's generally the job of an educator to EDUCATE people.

The law school admissions dean is not “an educator” any more than the janitor or cafeteria worker on campus is an educator.  Many law school admissions people do not even have a law degree.  He or she is a marketing professional and his/her job (for which they are being paid) is to draw a large pool of highly qualified students to apply to the institution and enroll if offered admission.

You are hopelessly naïve if you expect admissions deans to divine and temper the dreams of aspiring law school students.

[Soul Crusher]

The law school admissions dean is not “an educator” any more than the janitor or cafeteria worker on campus is an educator.  Many law school admissions people do not even have a law degree.  He or she is a marketing professional and his/her job (for which they are being paid) is to draw a large pool of highly qualified students to apply to the institution and enroll if offered admission.

You are hopelessly naïve if you expect admissions deans to divine and temper the dreams of aspiring law school students.

True.  They paraded all sorts of stats and figures as to what we would make after school.  Despite my graduating with a 3.65 GPA and passing the NY bar in the top 5% of the class, I was working as a PT in Gold's Gym after graduation.   

[BayGBM]

True.  They paraded all sorts of stats and figures as to what we would make after school.  Despite my graduating with a 3.65 GPA and passing the NY bar in the top 5% of the class, I was working as a PT in Gold's Gym after graduation.  

Again with the naïveté.  They showed you figures of what you could make—not what you would make.  It is like when a store advertises a sale with prices “as much as” 70% off.  Is everything in the store really 70% off?  No.

Apple’s iPad battery will last “as long as” 10 hours.  Can you really expect it to last 10 hours with the brightness and volume turned all the way up while watching video or using the 3g wireless feature?  No.

Remember, the silly supplement claims in the film “Bigger Faster Stronger?”  That bodybuilding model (Christian Boeving?) said “you should be smarter than that” if you thought over the counter supplements was all he was taking.

This is the same thing.  

If you just moved here from some foreign country, on behalf of law schools everywhere, I apologize for the bait and switch, but if you grew up in America… you really should know better.  By the way, no degree from anywhere is a guarantee of anything.  You still have to hustle, be street smart, be politically savvy, network & schmooze your way to success.  I do not know where you went to law school (first tier, second tier, third tier, or fourth), but if you really ended up working as a PT in Gold’s Gym after graduation… take a hard look in the mirror.  

[240 is Back]

yeah, guidance counselors are often shit - they want numbers, they don't always care about you personally.  They'll let you waste time, entire semesters sometimes.  I lost a lot of years of school because I took bad advice from college counselors.

[Soul Crusher]

Again with the naïveté.  They showed you figures of what you could make—not what you would make.  It is like when a store advertises a sale with prices “as much as” 70% off.  Is everything in the store really 70% off?  No.

Apple’s iPad battery will last “as long as” 10 hours.  Can you really expect it to last 10 hours with the brightness and volume turned all the way up while watching video or using the 3g wireless feature?  No.

Remember, the silly supplement claims in the film “Bigger Faster Stronger?”  That bodybuilding model (Christian Boeving?) said “you should be smarter than that” if you thought over the counter supplements was all he was taking.

This is the same thing.  

If you just moved here from some foreign country, on behalf of law schools everywhere, I apologize for the bait and switch, but if you grew up in America… you really should know better.  By the way, no degree from anywhere is a guarantee of anything.  You still have to hustle, be street smart, be politically savvy, network & schmooze your way to success.  I do not know where you went to law school (first tier, second tier, third tier, or fourth), but if you really ended up working as a PT in Gold’s Gym after graduation… take a hard look in the mirror.  

I tried getting those jobs at the white shoe law firms when I never realistically had a chance instead of small firms.  I then worked for two years for crap pay at small firms until I was comfortable to go out on my own.  That was 8 years ago.   

[BayGBM]

You tried but did you really try . . . in a way that exceeded the competition?  Perhaps not.  Did you work every summer at a firm or elsewhere?  The students at my law school alternated 10-week rotations between classroom and working in a legal setting.  They did not get summers off.  This was required of all students; by the time they graduated every student had worked in four different (almost always) paid positions.  They were well poised for employment when they graduated.  In fact, most of them went to work for one of their previous 10-week employers.

It goes without saying that the plum jobs are for top graduates at first tier schools. If that is not you then, no, you never really had a chance.  Similarly, those plum jobs are often reserved for people with connections (family, legacy, friend of X).  Again, if that is not you, then you never really had a chance, but admission officers were not lying when they pointed to high starting salaries for new law students landing those plum jobs.  The people who secured those jobs are doing well and there was a time, in the dot-com era for example, when such jobs were plentiful even for students at second tier schools.

[Soul Crusher]

You tried but did you really try . . . in a way that exceeded the competition?  Perhaps not.  Did you work every summer at a firm or elsewhere?  The students at my law school alternated 10-week rotations between classroom and working in a legal setting.  They did not get summers off.  This was required of all students; by the time they graduated every student had worked in four different (almost always) paid positions.  They were well poised for employment when they graduated.  In fact, most of them went to work for one of their previous 10-week employers.

It goes without saying that the plum jobs are for top graduates at first tier schools. If that is not you then, no, you never really had a chance.  Similarly, those plum jobs are often reserved for people with connections (family, legacy, friend of X).  Again, if that is not you, then you never really had a chance, but admission officers were not lying when they pointed to high starting salaries for new law students landing those plum jobs.  The people who secured those jobs are doing well and there was a time, in the dot-com era for example, when such jobs were plentiful even for students at second tier schools.

No that was not me.  I come from an ethnic working class blue collar family in the Bronx, NY where I was the first to go to college. 

TBH though - I am happy doing what I'm doing.  I like working for myself, I just wish I was told of reality beforehand.     

[BayGBM]

No that was not me.  I come from an ethnic working class blue collar family in the Bronx, NY where I was the first to go to college. 

TBH though - I am happy doing what I'm doing.  I like working for myself, I just wish I was told of reality beforehand.     

Many a muscle wannabe said the same thing after watching Bigger Faster Stronger. 

If you thought over the counter supplements was all Christian Boeving was taking, “you should be smarter than that.” 

I hear ya. For the longest time, I had no idea. There were signs, odds things.....my issue is with this whole shit industry as a whole. It's starts with the lying magazines, then it goes to the supplement companies, and then to the competitor's themselves. It's a huge bag of shit. Everyone within it, just winks their eye at each other, and pretend nothing is going on.
 

[George Whorewell]

Yeah, but becoming a professional athlete and a mildly successful attorney aren't remotely comparable goals. One is completely unrealistic unless you possess the god given ability and can dedicate the necessary time and effort. In addition, becoming a professional athlete is less about means and more about talent. You are not going to be given the chance to succeed unless you earned it or deserve it. MLB scouts aren't going to draft you just because your Uncle played for the team. Also, it's a 100% fulltime commitment that you have to undertake early in life. There aren't any NBA night schools and you can't work a day job and skip college, then get drafted to the NFL. Of course there are exceptions to what I said, but we are talking about 1% of the 1% that would be good enough to make it in the first place.

 The other goal is a lot more realistic and attainable provided you have the apptitude and are willing to work hard. The oft repeated lie that is sold by corporations of higher education ( which is what they are) is that their school can somehow give you a leg up over other schools when you enter your chosen profession. But, if you don't make law review or you don't have connections, you either have to get lucky or simply throw your hat in the ring and see where it takes you. The only thing that is great about a law degree is that it is an extremely valuable asset to have if you intend on working for yourself and becoming a self made man. Also, if you have business experience, or some other degree or intend to get into politics, the financial sector or academia, it gives you a huge boost over other job candidates.

[Skip8282]

The law school admissions dean is not “an educator” any more than the janitor or cafeteria worker on campus is an educator.  Many law school admissions people do not even have a law degree.  He or she is a marketing professional and his/her job (for which they are being paid) is to draw a large pool of highly qualified students to apply to the institution and enroll if offered admission.

You are hopelessly naïve if you expect admissions deans to divine and temper the dreams of aspiring law school students.

If they're not educators then I stand corrected, but I'll remain "hopelessly naive" in the idea that someday...maybe...the pangs of guilt will goad them into more ethical and professional behavior.

[BayGBM]

If they're not educators then I stand corrected, but I'll remain "hopelessly naive" in the idea that someday...maybe...the pangs of guilt will goad them into more ethical and professional behavior.

I regret to say that you hopelessly out of touch.  That I even had to correct your assumption that the admissions dean is an “educator” underscores my point.  By the time you are applying to law school you should be much more savvy.  Once again, if you grew up in another country then I owe you an apology but if you were raised in the States you have no excuse.

The sad truth is most young people want to be lawyers because it is an occupation they have seen featured in television and movies.  Most prospective students know very little about the profession and are slow to learn that most lawyers do not regularly litigate cases or otherwise work in a courtroom.  It is alternately amusing and sad to see how many students are so clueless about the profession and the path leading up to it.

Do not hold your breath waiting for those "pangs of guilt."

[Soul Crusher]

I shake people down and push paper all day.  Court room work is a fraction of actual work. 

[Emmortal]

Life is fucking tough, and padding grades just softens these kids up even more.  I'm sick of hearing shit echoing this "Everyone is a winner" mentality.  That's why we're failing and not the leader in science and technology anymore.  If you can't cut making the grades you need to succeed in school, then that's the harsh fucking reality of life, deal with it.

They do have a word for this and it's called socialism.

[Skip8282]

I regret to say that you hopelessly out of touch.  That I even had to correct your assumption that the admissions dean is an “educator” underscores my point.  By the time you are applying to law school you should be much more savvy.  Once again, if you grew up in another country then I owe you an apology but if you were raised in the States you have no excuse.

Whatever douchebag.  I'm not a law school applicant, so why the fuck I should know that is beyond idiocy.  And I've admitted my error about making an assumption about the Dean of Admissions.

Holding my breath in 3...2...1...

[Skip8282]

I shake people down and push paper all day.  Court room work is a fraction of actual work. 

Did you have to get the degree for what you do, or could you do it without the degree?

[Soul Crusher]

At my level yes since I am often resorting to lien foreclosre actions against properties when deadbeat owners refuse to pay and there are many laws to know whether its the real property laws, lien laws, trust fund laws etc. 

Also, at my level, most of the deadbeats have lawyers themselves.

[Skip8282]

At my level yes since I am often resorting to lien foreclosre actions against properties when deadbeat owners refuse to pay and there are many laws to know whether its the real property laws, lien laws, trust fund laws etc. 

Also, at my level, most of the deadbeats have lawyers themselves.

Do you just work cases over a certain dollar amount?

[Soul Crusher]

Do you just work cases over a certain dollar amount?

Depends on the client.  Long time clients I will take almost anything they send to me, but new ones I wont unless there is significant volume or they agree to a higher % of the claims are under 5k or over a year old. 

Most of my cases now are between 15k - 100k, with many below 15k, and a few above.