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Author Topic: Legalized Marijuana and the Crime Question  (Read 10947 times)
George Whorewell
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« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2010, 09:05:45 AM »

"The DEA, Customs, a large quantity of the FBI, elements of the Navy, Coast Guard, CIA, ATF, DHS, Border Agents, local police, corrections on the local and federal level = All base their existence on the illegality of drugs"

I will differ with you on local police basing their existence on the illegality of drugs. While it is a part of it, assaults, sexual assaults, burglary, fraud, robbery, traffic enforcement, domestic disturbances, criminal mischief, theft give us job security. Not all is tied to drugs.  

True, but a large number of  murders, burgalries, assaults, robberies, thefts and frauds are directly tied to the illegal trade. 
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Agnostic007
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« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2010, 09:19:10 AM »

True, but a large number of  murders, burgalries, assaults, robberies, thefts and frauds are directly tied to the illegal trade. 

Not all that many..

Domestic abuse/violence is normally independent
Assaults are more likely tied to alchohol
Sexual assaults, alcohol or opportunity
I concede some burglaries and thefts are related but mostly it is career criminals who are too lazy to actually work for a living who find it much easier the just steal other peoples stuff.
Murders in this city are usually known to the victim and not drug related for the most part. Murders along border towns, probably a whole different ball game.

The point being, whether drugs are legalized or illegal, local law enforcement will truck along. I think we could better focus our resources on more effective prevention if we didn't tie up so much trying to arrest all drug offenders. We have street level narcs, Organized Crime detectives, Metro Tactical units, all focusing on drugs..
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tonymctones
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« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2010, 09:27:06 AM »

I am not in the catagory of people who believe drug use with significantly increase if it is legal. We already deal with people who drive under the influence of drugs, so it wouldnt be anything new. And as far as pot.. Only the people smoking it at the time, can't smell the overpowering odor of the weed they just toked.. its in their clothes, on their hands, you can sometimes smell it coming from the car several feet away.. not really a mystery thing there..
im not saying use of it would increase, im saying that policing of it for driving under the influence of it would increase and yes it would...

LOL bud I used to be a big pot head many years ago I know, if you dont want to smell like weed while high there are many things that you can do to not smell like weed...

subsequently smelling like weed isnt proof that your high either...
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phreak
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« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2010, 10:10:17 AM »

Very interested to see how the vote turns out. 

Legalized Marijuana and the Crime Question
June 25, 2010 - 11:33 AM | by: Dan Springer
...
Critics also point to the Netherlands which legalized marijuana long ago. As  the country got known as a place to use drugs, there was an explosion of so-called coffee shops which are really just places to purchase and smoke marijuana.

They have become such a nuisance and attracted so much crime that officials have shut down thousands over the last few years.
Not surprised that this comes from Fox. While not technically incorrect, he only tells that part of the story that suits his goals.

Yes, there is still crime associated with coffee shops. And yes, they have attracted some crime. However, the crime they have attracted is crime from and for foreigners -- especially the French, who drive all the way through Belgium to get their drugs here. Drug runners are indeed a nuisance -- but only exist because neighboring countries have much stricter drug laws, thereby of course creating a suction effect towards The Netherlands. The problem is not the legalisation of drugs, it is the fact that it cannot work in a Europe with no borders if countries have differing drug laws. It would work like a charm if all countries had the same laws.

So for the US situation it would be much easier to implement, as there isn't going to be a lot of drug tourism from neighboring countries.
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MB_722
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« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2010, 10:15:58 AM »

  The Union: the business behind getting high 

trailer:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HLzmH9VB6A" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HLzmH9VB6A</a>

full movie

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9077214414651731007

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phreak
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« Reply #30 on: June 26, 2010, 10:18:24 AM »

yes you see but with drinking and driving you have the ability to take a breathelyzer and prove youre not drunk...with pot there is no such test, so unless youre willing to give blood everytime you get pulled over and are suspected of driving under the influence which will happen A LOT more if its legal then you shouldnt be for legalizing pot...

giving blood seems a tad excessive...
They have tests that can determine between exogenous and endogenous growth hormone and testosteron. You're telling me that a simple breath test (or swab) can't be created to test for THC? If such tests were to be done on a large scale, companies will jump at the opportunity to pump out millions of these. This is not a problem.
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« Reply #31 on: June 26, 2010, 11:09:07 AM »

GW nailed it.  The war on drugs is great business.

And with the economy as bad as it is - dropping all those programs creates a whole lot of unemployment, and the $ would just get wasted elsewhere.

In 20 years, the war on drugs will still look the same.
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tonymctones
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« Reply #32 on: June 26, 2010, 02:37:59 PM »

They have tests that can determine between exogenous and endogenous growth hormone and testosteron. You're telling me that a simple breath test (or swab) can't be created to test for THC? If such tests were to be done on a large scale, companies will jump at the opportunity to pump out millions of these. This is not a problem.
iono if they can or cannot but FACT OF THE MATTER is THEY DONT HAVE ONE and until they do have one it should not be legalized...

you want some stoned ass dude driving around town?
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« Reply #33 on: June 26, 2010, 03:00:42 PM »

iono if they can or cannot but FACT OF THE MATTER is THEY DONT HAVE ONE and until they do have one it should not be legalized...

you want some stoned ass dude driving around town?

The fact of the matter is, stone assed dudes already do it...
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tonymctones
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« Reply #34 on: June 26, 2010, 04:24:38 PM »

The fact of the matter is, stone assed dudes already do it...
correct but if you think the ppl that already smoke are going to be as descrete as they are now if it was made legal youre being ignorant...

AND AS I SAID this isnt about the USE of marijuana its about the POLICING of driving under the influence of marijuana which would undoubtedly increase if it was made legal...

so until we have an option other than drawing blood everytime a person is suspected of driving under the influence IT SHOULDNT BE LEGALIZED...
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« Reply #35 on: June 26, 2010, 05:26:11 PM »

correct but if you think the ppl that already smoke are going to be as descrete as they are now if it was made legal youre being ignorant...

AND AS I SAID this isnt about the USE of marijuana its about the POLICING of driving under the influence of marijuana which would undoubtedly increase if it was made legal...

so until we have an option other than drawing blood everytime a person is suspected of driving under the influence IT SHOULDNT BE LEGALIZED...
You think that's the case because they can't prove intoxication with weed?
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tonymctones
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« Reply #36 on: June 26, 2010, 11:46:28 PM »

You think that's the case because they can't prove intoxication with weed?
to which point are you addressing oz?

whether or not ppl are going to be as discrete as they are now? no not b/c they cant prove youre high but simply b/c it would be legal and there would be no need to hide it...

whether or not the police would look for it more? no not b/c they cant prove youre high but b/c they would undoubtedly be on the look out for it more since as I stated ppl wouldnt be as discrete as they are now...

simple fact of the matter is unless youre ok with being hauled to jail for a blood test everytime a cop thinks your under the influence you shouldnt be for the legalization of pot...

you think these guys are going to draw blood and let you go on your way? LMAO youre going to go sit in a drunk/high tank until they think youre not high...there needs to be an immediate way of proving youre not high unless your willing to submit to mandatory blood tests and sitting in a jail cell everytime youre suspected of driving high...
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phreak
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« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2010, 06:25:13 AM »

to which point are you addressing oz?

whether or not ppl are going to be as discrete as they are now? no not b/c they cant prove youre high but simply b/c it would be legal and there would be no need to hide it...

whether or not the police would look for it more? no not b/c they cant prove youre high but b/c they would undoubtedly be on the look out for it more since as I stated ppl wouldnt be as discrete as they are now...

simple fact of the matter is unless youre ok with being hauled to jail for a blood test everytime a cop thinks your under the influence you shouldnt be for the legalization of pot...

you think these guys are going to draw blood and let you go on your way? LMAO youre going to go sit in a drunk/high tank until they think youre not high...there needs to be an immediate way of proving youre not high unless your willing to submit to mandatory blood tests and sitting in a jail cell everytime youre suspected of driving high...
So Prozac needs to be banned? Valium? Etc. Because it's illegal to drive while impaired with those, yet there is nothing besides a blood test that will show it. If you try to use the lame argument that it cannot be done because there is no non-invasive test yet, then do be consistent.
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tonymctones
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« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2010, 08:43:20 AM »

So Prozac needs to be banned? Valium? Etc. Because it's illegal to drive while impaired with those, yet there is nothing besides a blood test that will show it. If you try to use the lame argument that it cannot be done because there is no non-invasive test yet, then do be consistent.
prozac and valium are PROSCRIPTION DRUGS!!!!!!!!!!

ppl want to make marijuana legal for EVERYONE...not just those with a prescription...

nice try though...
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« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2010, 11:10:14 AM »

to which point are you addressing oz?

whether or not ppl are going to be as discrete as they are now? no not b/c they cant prove youre high but simply b/c it would be legal and there would be no need to hide it...

whether or not the police would look for it more? no not b/c they cant prove youre high but b/c they would undoubtedly be on the look out for it more since as I stated ppl wouldnt be as discrete as they are now...

simple fact of the matter is unless youre ok with being hauled to jail for a blood test everytime a cop thinks your under the influence you shouldnt be for the legalization of pot...

you think these guys are going to draw blood and let you go on your way? LMAO youre going to go sit in a drunk/high tank until they think youre not high...there needs to be an immediate way of proving youre not high unless your willing to submit to mandatory blood tests and sitting in a jail cell everytime youre suspected of driving high...

I kind of see what you are saying but the mere fact, if it is a fact, that they can't prove you are high in the same they can prove you are under the influence of alcohol is the real issue here.  People will still hide it regardless and the processes of probable cause will change.

I am for the legalization of pot but with an increase in penalties for driving under the influence. 
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« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2010, 11:11:06 AM »

I am for the legalization of pot but with an increase in penalties for driving under the influence. 

Are you okay with police, fire, and govt officials using pot on a regular basis as well?
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tonymctones
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« Reply #41 on: June 27, 2010, 11:19:30 AM »

I kind of see what you are saying but the mere fact, if it is a fact, that they can't prove you are high in the same they can prove you are under the influence of alcohol is the real issue here.  People will still hide it regardless and the processes of probable cause will change.

I am for the legalization of pot but with an increase in penalties for driving under the influence. 
this is where I think ppl are misunderstanding me, I am for the legalization of pot but only when they can test for its prescense without a blood test...everytime a cop even suspects your under the influence youre going to have to give a blood sample to prove it...they arent going to let you drive away after you are suspected of it so you will go spend some time in a drunk tank...

thats to much for just suspicion and with no way of proving your innocence other than a blood test...
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tonymctones
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« Reply #42 on: June 27, 2010, 11:20:48 AM »

Are you okay with police, fire, and govt officials using pot on a regular basis as well?
as long as they are not high at work, whats the difference between pot and alcohol?
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« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2010, 11:37:26 AM »

this is where I think ppl are misunderstanding me, I am for the legalization of pot but only when they can test for its prescense without a blood test...

Sounds like a fair compromise.

I'm fine iwth it - it'll get a ton of ppl off anti-depressants.  However, if you smoke and drive, I want your ass in the same situation as if you drank and drive.  None of this "pot doesn't affect judgement" bullshit.

HOWEVER, what about the effects on us, as a nation?
Does Weed affect your IQ?

Yes- the national institute of drug abuse came to the conclusion that smoking marijuana causes cognitive impairments lasting up to 28 days after smoking marijuana.
http://www.drugabuse.gov/NIDA_notes/NNvol18N5/Cognitive.html

Now, we're already not #1 in world education rankings... far from it.  Do we really want to see what happens to our high school scores and college attendance rates if pot is legal?
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« Reply #44 on: June 27, 2010, 11:38:17 AM »

as long as they are not high at work, whats the difference between pot and alcohol?

You're only drunk for a few hours.  Weed affects your cog abilities for a month.  I don't care if my garbage man uses weed.  But mayor, governor, or even president?  No way!

Yes- the national institute of drug abuse came to the conclusion that smoking marijuana causes cognitive impairments lasting up to 28 days after smoking marijuana.
http://www.drugabuse.gov/NIDA_notes/NNvol18N5/Cognitive.html
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tonymctones
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« Reply #45 on: June 27, 2010, 11:45:04 AM »

You're only drunk for a few hours.  Weed affects your cog abilities for a month.  I don't care if my garbage man uses weed.  But mayor, governor, or even president?  No way!

Yes- the national institute of drug abuse came to the conclusion that smoking marijuana causes cognitive impairments lasting up to 28 days after smoking marijuana.
http://www.drugabuse.gov/NIDA_notes/NNvol18N5/Cognitive.html
link doesnt work and alcohol can effect your cognitive abilities after its use as well...

youre only drunk and high for a few hours...both have after effects
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« Reply #46 on: June 27, 2010, 11:50:02 AM »

link doesnt work and alcohol can effect your cognitive abilities after its use as well...

youre only drunk and high for a few hours...both have after effects

You can google a shitload of pages detailing long term effects of pot.

While all of the long-term effects of marijuana use are not yet known, there are studies showing serious health concerns. For example, a group of scientists in California examined the health status of 450 daily smokers of marijuana but not tobacco. They found that the marijuana smokers had more sick days and more doctor visits for respiratory problems and other types of illness than did a similar group who did not smoke either substance.

Let's look at the long-term $$ costt to America - all those lost work days hurt our GDP and increase healthcare costs as a nation.
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« Reply #47 on: June 27, 2010, 11:51:40 AM »

Are you okay with police, fire, and govt officials using pot on a regular basis as well?

What tommy said.

Personally I'd rather they got high then drank.  Things would never get to the point of war if world leaders just had meetings, got high and ate together after wards.
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« Reply #48 on: June 27, 2010, 11:53:22 AM »

You can google a shitload of pages detailing long term effects of pot.

While all of the long-term effects of marijuana use are not yet known, there are studies showing serious health concerns. For example, a group of scientists in California examined the health status of 450 daily smokers of marijuana but not tobacco. They found that the marijuana smokers had more sick days and more doctor visits for respiratory problems and other types of illness than did a similar group who did not smoke either substance.

Let's look at the long-term $$ costt to America - all those lost work days hurt our GDP and increase healthcare costs as a nation.

Let's compare the ill effects of legalized alcohol, use, abuse etc.. and compare the same things to pot.

If anything they should legalize pot and make alcohol illegal.   
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« Reply #49 on: June 27, 2010, 11:54:26 AM »

this is where I think ppl are misunderstanding me, I am for the legalization of pot but only when they can test for its prescense without a blood test...everytime a cop even suspects your under the influence youre going to have to give a blood sample to prove it...they arent going to let you drive away after you are suspected of it so you will go spend some time in a drunk tank...

thats to much for just suspicion and with no way of proving your innocence other than a blood test...

Yeah good point.  They will figure something out. 
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