Author Topic: AZ stopping red light traffic cams - because they're UNCONSTITUTIONAL!  (Read 5397 times)

240 is Back

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BWAA HAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

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Soul Crusher

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Good.  Those things are nothing but $ $ $ $ generators for the state.   

SAMSON123

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Put those cams in every politicians office from your president on down so the public can see what they are doing every waking moment. It will certainly catch more REAL CRIMINALS that way who are definitely involved in ILLEGAL activities.
C

The True Adonis

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http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3422372&page=1

71 percent of Americans favor the increased use of surveillance cameras, while 25 percent oppose it.

Seniors are most apt to support the increased use of these cameras, with under-30s, least so; Republicans  more than Democrats
The majority of the public overwhelmingly does not have a problem with Cameras everywhere.

To which I say The majority of the American public are overwhelmingly stupid and fearful and do not give a damn about their civil liberties.

kcballer

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I don't agree with speed cameras but i do think red light cameras in high risk areas are a good idea. 
Abandon every hope...

Dos Equis

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We ran those speed cams out of here.  Hate em. 

The True Adonis

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Luckily the ACLU is attempting to get rid of all these cameras.   I always find it laughable to those who hate the ACLU when they are the only ones really looking out for our freedom in all respects.

OzmO

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Luckily the ACLU is attempting to get rid of all these cameras.   I always find it laughable to those who hate the ACLU when they are the only ones really looking out for our freedom in all respects.

I agree,  it just that sometimes they fight on the wrong side, IMO, due to circumstances. 

Soul Crusher

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I dont hate the ACLU, they play a very important role in society, even if I don't agree with them on 100% of cases.

These red light cameras are $ $ $ sources and nothing else.    

Danny

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I don't agree with speed cameras but i do think red light cameras in high risk areas are a good idea. 

they are all over Chicago and I actually think they're a good idea as long as it stops some idiots running red lights and causing accidents.
"What we do in life ECHOES in eternity "

The True Adonis

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they are all over Chicago and I actually think they're a good idea as long as it stops some idiots running red lights and causing accidents.
How would it stop or curtail the running of red lights?  People don`t run them on purpose for the most part, they run them on accident.

Danny

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How would it stop or curtail the running of red lights?  People don`t run them on purpose for the most part, they run them on accident.

Some of them, most majority however are drivers who drive like they are on the set of "The Fast and The Furious". Trust me, after the city put those cameras in place,people were so careful you wouldn't believe it. It was actually annoying at first that nobody would take the slightest chance at moving ahead once yellow was on.  ;D
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tonymctones

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BWAA HAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 ;D
whats really funny is your brutal double standard...

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=342666.25

HDPhysiques

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To ANYONE who has ever been in favor of a red light camera, or a speed camera....

FUCK YOU, I HOPE YOU DIE IN A BRUTALLY PAINFUL FASHION!!!!!!

Hope that explains how I feel about these big brother abominations.
JOIN HDPhysiques!!!!

Soul Crusher

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To ANYONE who has ever been in favor of a red light camera, or a speed camera....

FUCK YOU, I HOPE YOU DIE IN A BRUTALLY PAINFUL FASHION!!!!!!

Hope that explains how I feel about these big brother abominations.

Did you see my thread on the govt keeping track of your BMI? 

newmom

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fucking red light cameras caught me running YELLOW lights in nyc


HDPhysiques

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Did you see my thread on the govt keeping track of your BMI? 

No, not yet.  Will look around.
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newmom

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To ANYONE who has ever been in favor of a red light camera, or a speed camera....

FUCK YOU, I HOPE YOU DIE IN A BRUTALLY PAINFUL FASHION!!!!!!

Hope that explains how I feel about these big brother abominations.

I used to say the same thing. But those big brother cameras have caught child killers and child snatchers. So my opinion has changed on that matter.

Agnostic007

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Don't run red lights, don't get a ticket or your picture taken.. simple as that. It would be just peachy if people obeyed the traffic laws in the absence of police but there are some folks out there that think the rules are for other people and run red lights if they don't see a cop car. Since most cities can't afford to put a babysitter on every corner, red light cameras come into play. People whine, and scream, and kick about the red light cameras.. "They are income generators" "Oh, my civil rights are violated" etc etc. Guess what... you violate the civil rights of the person you T-bone cause your'e running late and the Golden Corral Buffet is about to charge dinner prices and you wanna get in on the lunch price. Again... bottom line.. don't run the red light, don't get your picture taken.. I'm missing the point where this is a major intrusion on your rights... 

HDPhysiques

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Don't run red lights, don't get a ticket or your picture taken.. simple as that. It would be just peachy if people obeyed the traffic laws in the absence of police but there are some folks out there that think the rules are for other people and run red lights if they don't see a cop car. Since most cities can't afford to put a babysitter on every corner, red light cameras come into play. People whine, and scream, and kick about the red light cameras.. "They are income generators" "Oh, my civil rights are violated" etc etc. Guess what... you violate the civil rights of the person you T-bone cause your'e running late and the Golden Corral Buffet is about to charge dinner prices and you wanna get in on the lunch price. Again... bottom line.. don't run the red light, don't get your picture taken.. I'm missing the point where this is a major intrusion on your rights... 

It's this type of thinking that will end up with you people living in a Gattaca-like society.   I won't be.... as I would've gone out Bobby Sly style long before it reaches that point.  But you guys enjoy having the gov't tell you when it's OK to cut your hair, or what radio stations you are allowed to listen to, or what you must eat for dinner in order to meet your BMI requirements.  Have fun with that.
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polychronopolous

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Guess what... you violate the civil rights of the person you T-bone cause your'e running late and the Golden Corral Buffet is about to charge dinner prices and you wanna get in on the lunch price.

That's why you go in at around 10:45 am, so you can get breakfast AND lunch for the same price!

Good little tip I learned from my cheap skate friends.  8)

polychronopolous

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It's this type of thinking that will end up with you people living in a Gattaca-like society.   I won't be.... as I would've gone out Bobby Sly style long before it reaches that point. 

 ::)

Agnostic007

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It's this type of thinking that will end up with you people living in a Gattaca-like society.   I won't be.... as I would've gone out Bobby Sly style long before it reaches that point.  But you guys enjoy having the gov't tell you when it's OK to cut your hair, or what radio stations you are allowed to listen to, or what you must eat for dinner in order to meet your BMI requirements.  Have fun with that.

equating cameras at traffic intersections that record vehicles that violate traffic law by running red lights to the goverment telling you when its ok to cut your hair destroys any credibility you might have in this debate. Just thought you should know..

The True Adonis

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Hope This Helps.  ;)


http://blog.motorists.org/red-light-cameras-increase-accidents-5-studies-that-prove-it/
Red-Light Cameras Increase Accidents: 5 Studies That Prove It
Posted on January 8th, 2008 in Red-Light Cameras | Comments (118)
The NMA has been contending that red-light cameras (RLCs) are a detriment to motorist safety for many years.

People, both in the media and in the general public, often dismiss this claim as opinion, suggest that there isn’t enough data available yet, ask why we support people who run red lights (we don’t), or write off the organization as being biased.

The only way to combat this is through hard facts and independent research. Luckily, we have both.

We reiterate our challenge: If it’s not about the money, then prove it.

No community has accepted, which shouldn’t be surprising considering the facts.

Here are five independent studies that demonstrate the failure of red-light cameras as a safety measure:


1) A Long Term Study of Red-Light Cameras and Accidents
David Andreassen
Australian Road Research Board
February, 1995

This study examined the long term effect on accident-types of red-light cameras at 41 signalized intersections in Melbourne, Australia. The cameras were installed in 1984, and reported accidents for the period 1979 to 1989 were used in the detailed analysis.

Quotes from the study:

“The results of this study suggest that the installation of the RLC at these sites did not provide any reduction in accidents, rather there has been increases in rear end and adjacent approaches accidents on a before and after basis and also by comparison with the changes in accidents at intersection signals.”

“There has been no demonstrated value of the RLC as an effective countermeasure.”

Download The Full Study

2) The Impact of Red Light Cameras (Photo-Red Enforcement) on Crashes in Virginia
Virginia Transportation Research Council
June 2007

The Virginia Transportation Research Council released a report expanding upon earlier research into the safety effects of red light cameras in Virginia. Despite showing an increase in crashes, this study was instrumental in the return of red-light cameras to the state of Virginia. With a proven negative safety impact, the clear incentive to bring back the cameras was money.

Quotes from the study:

“After cameras were installed, rear-end crashes increased for the entire six-jurisdiction study area… After controlling for time and traffic volume at each intersection, rear-end crash rates increased by an average of 27% for the entire study area.”

“After cameras were installed, total crashes increased.”

“The impact of cameras on injury severity is too close to call.”

“Based only on the study results presented herein and without referencing other studies, the study did not show a definitive safety benefit associated with camera installation with regard to all crash types, all crash severities, and all crash jurisdictions.”

Download The Full Study

3) The Red-Light Running Crisis: Is It Intentional?
Office of the Majority Leader
U.S. House of Representatives
May 2001

This report was prepared by former House Majority Leader Dick Armey’s staff. It looks at the problems of red-light cameras and how to really deal with traffic-light violations.

Quoted from the study:

“And one should ask the question, if there’s a problem with an intersection, why don’t safety engineers in the field just go out and fix the timing?

In fact, before red light cameras arrived in the United States, that’s exactly what our regulations instructed them to do. If too many people enter on red at an intersection, engineers were supposed to lengthen its yellow time. But in the year that red light cameras first started collecting millions in revenue on our shores, those entrusted with developing our traffic safety regulations dropped the requirement to fix signal timing, instructing engineers to “use enforcement” instead.

Indeed, according to the Federal Highway Administration, these problem intersections serve as a great location to hold a press conference. The agency offers a script for local officials to exploit a tragically mistimed intersection to call for the installation of additional red light cameras and tout their safety benefits.

But none of the reports that are supposed to tell us that red light cameras are responsible safety benefits actually say that. First, they dismiss increases in rear-end collisions associated with red light cameras as “non-significant,” despite evidence to the contrary. Second, they do not actually look at red light intersection accidents. The latest accident study in Oxnard, California, for example, only documents accident reductions “associated with”—not caused by— red light cameras. Although that statement has little scientific value, it does have great marketing appeal if you don’t look too closely.

Every study claiming red light cameras increase safety is written by the same man. Before joining the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS), he was a top transportation official in New York City at the time the city began looking into becoming the first jurisdiction in the country to install red light cameras. In other words, the father of the red light camera in America is the same individual offering the “objective” testimony that they are effective.

A similar conflict of interest affects those entrusted with writing safety regulations for our traffic lights. The Institute of Transportation Engineers is actively involved in lobbying for, and even drafting legislation to implement, red light cameras. They are closely tied to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS), which in turn is funded by companies that stand to profit handsomely any time points are assessed to a driver’s license.

In short, the only documented benefit to red light cameras is to the pocketbook of local governments who use the devices to collect millions in revenue.”

Download The Full Study

4) Investigation Of Crash Risk Reduction Resulting From Red-Light Cameras In Small Urban Areas
Mark Burkey, Ph.D. & Kofi Obeng, Ph.D.
North Carolina Agricultural & Technical State University
July 2004

A study prepared by the North Carolina A&T State University’s Urban Transit Institute for the United States Department of Transportation.

Quoted from the study:

“Using a large data set, including 26 months before the introduction of RLCs, we analyze reported accidents occurring near 303 intersections over a 57-month period, for a total of 17,271 observations. Employing maximum likelihood estimation of Poisson regression models, we find that:

The results do not support the view that red light cameras reduce crashes. Instead, we find that RLCs are associated with higher levels of many types and severity categories of crashes.”

Download The Full Study

5) Evaluation of the Red-Light-Camera-Enforcement Pilot Project
Ontario Ministry of Transportation
December 2003

This report from Ontario, Canada’s Ministry of Transportation’s concluded that jurisdictions using photo enforcement experienced an overall increase in property damage and fatal and injury rear-end collisions. The report also concludes that there was an overall reduction in serious accidents and angle collisions. However, a closer look at the data found in this government-sponsored report show that intersections monitored by cameras experienced, overall, a 2 percent increase in fatal and injury collisions compared to a decrease of 12.7 percent in the camera-free intersections that were used as a control group (page 21).

In fact, the non-camera intersections fared better than the camera intersections in every accident category.

Quoted from the study:

“Exhibit 2 indicates the red light running treatments have:

* Contributed to a 4.9 per cent increase in fatal and injury rear-end collisions; and
* Contributed to a 49.9 per cent increase in property damage only rear-end collisions.

The rear-end collision results are similar to findings in other red light camera studies.”

Download The Full Study

This is by no means an exhaustive list. You can find more studies on the NMA website here: Photo Enforcement Studies.

The True Adonis

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Hope this Helps also  ;)

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/18/1844.asp
2007 Virginia DOT Report Shows Red Light Cameras Increase Accidents
A new Virginia Department of Transportation study shows accidents increased by nearly a third where red light cameras were used.

The Virginia Transportation Research Council today released a report expanding upon earlier research into the safety effects of red light cameras in Virginia. The new study, funded by the Virginia Department of Transportation and the Federal Highway Administration, provided a city-by-city assessment that showed significant increases in the number of injuries and accidents at intersections employing photo enforcement.

The change in the frequency of injury accidents varied widely among jurisdictions -- down 5 percent in one but up between 6 and 89 percent in all others. Even within a jurisdiction some intersections fared better than others. In Fairfax County, for example, the total number of crashes increased at every intersection with a camera, except for one -- Route 50 and Fair Ridge. VDOT increased the duration of the yellow light from 4 seconds to 5.5 seconds on August 12, 1998. Research by the Texas Transportation Institute confirmed that longer yellows yield significant accident reductions. Overall, the data in the VTRC report painted a grim picture consistent with prior, independent investigations.

"The cameras were associated with an increase in total crashes. Arlington and Fairfax County saw significant increases, Falls Church and Vienna saw non significant increases, and Fairfax City saw a nonsignificant decrease."

Although it is now widely accepted that red light cameras are associated with increases in the number of rear end collisions, the VTRC report did not solely attribute the overall increase in accidents and injuries to this type of collision. Angle collisions also increased.

"Cameras were associated with an increase of between 31 percent and 54 percent for rear-end crashes overall," the report found. "The association of the cameras with angle crashes differed among jurisdictions, although a preponderance of test results suggested an increase."

Contrary to industry claims, this was not a temporary phenomenon.

"The cameras were not associated with a decrease in rear-end crashes over time after the initial increase that followed camera installation," the report found.

Red light cameras were authorized in Virginia between 1995 and 2005. After a two year battle with municipal lobbyists and the insurance industry, the Virginia state legislature re-authorized the use of red light cameras. The law took effect July 1. The full text of the study is available in a 1mb PDF file at the source link below.

Key Statistic:
City   Rear End   Angle   Injury   Total
Arlington   +139%   +53%   +89%   +65%
Fairfax City   +10%   -35%   -5%   -7%
Fairfax County   +40%   +8%   +6%   +23%
Falls Church   +136%   -15%   +79%   +38%
Vienna   +64%   -6%   +59%   +25%
Average   +42%   +20%   +18%   +29%


Source:  The Impact of Red Light Cameras on Crashes in Virginia (Virginia Transportation Research Council, 7/5/2007)