YOU LIE!!!! - Obama now defends Insurance Mandate as a Tax in Court proceedings.

[Soul Crusher]

[240 is Back]

Notice Mons, Straw, 240, Blacken, Benny, et al are not here to kneepad this. 

Perhaps you missed the 60 or 70 times I said I opposed the healthcare bill

Why would i kneepad a bill I was against?  Sometimes I think you want me to be the liberal boogeyman on every topic.

[James]

Perhaps you missed the 60 or 70 times I said I opposed the healthcare bill

Why would i kneepad a bill I was against?  Sometimes I think you want me to be the liberal boogeyman on every topic.

Agree.

I don't remember 240 knee-padding for ObamaCare .

[240 is Back]

Agree.

I don't remember 240 knee-padding for ObamaCare .

thanks

I shit all over the repubs for not changing a thing for 12 years of owning congress.

But I also shit all over dems for passing this particular bill.

Without a repub alternative, however, whatever crap sandwich obama handed america/congress was going to pass. 

Same with climate/crap/trade and amnesty bills, and even drilling.  Repubs had 6 years of owning congress and the white house - they could have passed solutions so obama wouldn't be pushing these things today.   But instead, they just ignored it all.

[Soul Crusher]

thanks

I shit all over the repubs for not changing a thing for 12 years of owning congress.

But I also shit all over dems for passing this particular bill.

Without a repub alternative, however, whatever crap sandwich obama handed america/congress was going to pass. 

Same with climate/crap/trade and amnesty bills, and even drilling.  Repubs had 6 years of owning congress and the white house - they could have passed solutions so obama wouldn't be pushing these things today.   But instead, they just ignored it all.

  

Obama's plans are for communist transformation 240.

[240 is Back]

 

Obama's plans are for communist transformation 240.

this may be true.  but he was only able to justify HC reform because rates jumped for many 20% the last 2 years... the repubs did nothing for 12 years on HC... they had no solid alternative plan... and voters were desperate for change.

It's like the teenage daughter who is beaten by her parents.  She's going to run away with and marry the first guy who pays any attention to her, instead of being more selective with her mates.  Americans were beaten by healthcare, so they voted for Obama - who did exactly what he said he'd do on healthcare.  Nobody's surprised by his actions, are they?  he is who we thought he was.

[dario73]

HEHEHE.

Only response from the Obama lovers will be, "remember the read my lips speech by Bush the father?" As if that somehow excuses or justifies Obama.

[Soul Crusher]

This is as clear as a lie as you get.  There are no two ways about it. 

[Soul Crusher]

Changing Stance, Administration Now Defends Insurance Mandate as a TaxBy ROBERT PEAR
Published: July 16, 2010
www.nyt.com

________________________ _________________-


WASHINGTON — When Congress required most Americans to obtain health insurance or pay a penalty, Democrats denied that they were creating a new tax. But in court, the Obama administration and its allies now defend the requirement as an exercise of the government’s “power to lay and collect taxes.”

And that power, they say, is even more sweeping than the federal power to regulate interstate commerce.

Administration officials say the tax argument is a linchpin of their legal case in defense of the health care overhaul and its individual mandate, now being challenged in court by more than 20 states and several private organizations.

Under the legislation signed by President Obama in March, most Americans will have to maintain “minimum essential coverage” starting in 2014. Many people will be eligible for federal subsidies to help them pay premiums.

In a brief defending the law, the Justice Department says the requirement for people to carry insurance or pay the penalty is “a valid exercise” of Congress’s power to impose taxes.

Congress can use its taxing power “even for purposes that would exceed its powers under other provisions” of the Constitution, the department said. For more than a century, it added, the Supreme Court has held that Congress can tax activities that it could not reach by using its power to regulate commerce.

While Congress was working on the health care legislation, Mr. Obama refused to accept the argument that a mandate to buy insurance, enforced by financial penalties, was equivalent to a tax.

“For us to say that you’ve got to take a responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase,” the president said last September, in a spirited exchange with George Stephanopoulos on the ABC News program “This Week.”

When Mr. Stephanopoulos said the penalty appeared to fit the dictionary definition of a tax, Mr. Obama replied, “I absolutely reject that notion.”

Congress anticipated a constitutional challenge to the individual mandate. Accordingly, the law includes 10 detailed findings meant to show that the mandate regulates commercial activity important to the nation’s economy. Nowhere does Congress cite its taxing power as a source of authority.

Under the Constitution, Congress can exercise its taxing power to provide for the “general welfare.” It is for Congress, not courts, to decide which taxes are “conducive to the general welfare,” the Supreme Court said 73 years ago in upholding the Social Security Act.

Dan Pfeiffer, the White House communications director, described the tax power as an alternative source of authority.

“The Commerce Clause supplies sufficient authority for the shared-responsibility requirements in the new health reform law,” Mr. Pfeiffer said. “To the extent that there is any question of additional authority — and we don’t believe there is — it would be available through the General Welfare Clause.”

The law describes the levy on the uninsured as a “penalty” rather than a tax. The Justice Department brushes aside the distinction, saying “the statutory label” does not matter. The constitutionality of a tax law depends on “its practical operation,” not the precise form of words used to describe it, the department says, citing a long line of Supreme Court cases.

Moreover, the department says the penalty is a tax because it will raise substantial revenue: $4 billion a year by 2017, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

In addition, the department notes, the penalty is imposed and collected under the Internal Revenue Code, and people must report it on their tax returns “as an addition to income tax liability.”

Because the penalty is a tax, the department says, no one can challenge it in court before paying it and seeking a refund.

Jack M. Balkin, a professor at Yale Law School who supports the new law, said, “The tax argument is the strongest argument for upholding” the individual-coverage requirement.

Mr. Obama “has not been honest with the American people about the nature of this bill,” Mr. Balkin said last month at a meeting of the American Constitution Society, a progressive legal organization. “This bill is a tax. Because it’s a tax, it’s completely constitutional.”

Mr. Balkin and other law professors pressed that argument in a friend-of-the-court brief filed in one of the pending cases.

Opponents contend that the “minimum coverage provision” is unconstitutional because it exceeds Congress’s power to regulate commerce.

“This is the first time that Congress has ever ordered Americans to use their own money to purchase a particular good or service,” said Senator Orrin G. Hatch, Republican of Utah.

In their lawsuit, Florida and other states say: “Congress is attempting to regulate and penalize Americans for choosing not to engage in economic activity. If Congress can do this much, there will be virtually no sphere of private decision-making beyond the reach of federal power.”

In reply, the administration and its allies say that a person who goes without insurance is simply choosing to pay for health care out of pocket at a later date. In the aggregate, they say, these decisions have a substantial effect on the interstate market for health care and health insurance.

In its legal briefs, the Obama administration points to a famous New Deal case, Wickard v. Filburn, in which the Supreme Court upheld a penalty imposed on an Ohio farmer who had grown a small amount of wheat, in excess of his production quota, purely for his own use.

The wheat grown by Roscoe Filburn “may be trivial by itself,” the court said, but when combined with the output of other small farmers, it significantly affected interstate commerce and could therefore be regulated by the government as part of a broad scheme regulating interstate commerce.


________________________ ____________________

“For us to say that you’ve got to take a responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase,” the president said last September, in a spirited exchange with George Stephanopoulos on the ABC News program “This Week.”

When Mr. Stephanopoulos said the penalty appeared to fit the dictionary definition of a tax, Mr. Obama replied, “I absolutely reject that notion.”




________________________ __________________--


YOU F%^ING MORONS STILL BELIEVING ANYTHING FROM THIS WH ARE NOT WORTHY OF THE RIGHT TO VOTE. 

bump

[dario73]

An administration that doesn't know which way is up. They make Bush and his cabinet look like damn Einsteins. Sad really.

[Soul Crusher]

We warned the morons on this board and are going to be vindicated in the end. 

[Option D]

funny.. funny funny funny..

[Soul Crusher]

funny.. funny funny funny..

Actually it is.   I am taking a ton of joy in this admn imploding and everything it tries collapsing under its own corruption, ineptness, unconstitutionality, and idiocy.   

[Option D]

Actually it is.   I am taking a ton of joy in this admn imploding and everything it tries collapsing under its own corruption, ineptness, unconstitutionality, and idiocy.   

WOW...really...nice to know you support the well being of our country..very nice
put politics and Hatred for a human on top of well being of your country men...cool

[240 is Back]

Actually it is.   I am taking a ton of joy in this admn imploding and everything it tries collapsing under its own corruption, ineptness, unconstitutionality, and idiocy.   

Wow.  You take pride in your own govt collapsing.  Hmmm

[Option D]

Wow.  You take pride in your own govt collapsing.  Hmmm

obviously he cares about partyline politics and who's side rules over the conditions of his country. I hated the war but i wasnt happy Americans were dying in it. And i damn sure didnt highlight it.. Because first and foremost...Im an AMERICAN

[The Showstoppa]

Lets be fair here, I think 33 wants to see Obama's polices fail because he thinks they are shit for the country.  I don't think he wants the country to fail.


And on Option D's last post I could hear Lee Greenwood getting cranked up in the background....

[Soul Crusher]

WOW...really...nice to know you support the well being of our country..very nice
put politics and Hatred for a human on top of well being of your country men...cool

No - I believe obama's complete failure and collapse = America succeeding since his agenda and policies are fundamentally damaging and detrimental to our nation.  

Cap & Trade failing = lower prices = better for average guy.

ObamaCare collapsing = more choices, lower costs, less intrusive nanny state.  

Amnesty - FUBO.  Fuck him.  Let his moronic ass go back to Moombasa and preach that crap.  

More Spending and the Stim Bill?    - Yeah that wrked out well - NNNOOTT! !   !

Terrorist trials in NYC - I'll leave that alone or I will will have DHS after me.  


and on and on.  

Every single policy and position of this WH is against all common sense, decency, and norms of reality.  

In conclusion - his losses = America's gain.        

[Option D]

Lets be fair here, I think 33 wants to see Obama's polices fail because he thinks they are shit for the country.  I don't think he wants the country to fail.
And on Option D's last post I could hear Lee Greenwood getting cranked up in the background....

Man...im not gonna lie.. i still cry when i hear that song.. call me gay.. but whatever...i also get chocked up when i hear SSB...man...
See.. I love my country and our people. It aint perfect and its got its Checkered past.. but God damn, its still America..
I want all our policies to work. I want everyone to be able to eat. I call that a patriot, but some here would call it communisim. I know everyone hasnt had the same advantages i had, Thats why im for universal healthcare. Not because of the handout shit, but because in our system someone has to be at the top but someone also has to scrub toilets.

[The Showstoppa]

Man...im not gonna lie.. i still cry when i hear that song.. call me gay.. but whatever...i also get chocked up when i hear SSB...man...
See.. I love my country and our people. It aint perfect and its got its Checkered past.. but God damn, its still America..
I want all our policies to work. I want everyone to be able to eat. I call that a patriot, but some here would call it communisim. I know everyone hasnt had the same advantages i had, Thats why im for universal healthcare. Not because of the handout shit, but because in our system someone has to be at the top but someone also has to scrub toilets.

I'm the same way on Greenwoods song and the SSB.  I bet I heard/sang Greenwoods song 1000 times i bootcamp...hahaha.....an d believe me there were a couple of times that the majority of us were teared up.  NOTHING wrong with that.  And I hear you on feeding people, etc...  I grew up very poor and others around me even worse.....I think all MOST people want is a legit chance at the "American Dream"  and when they don't get it, thats what pisses me off.

[Soul Crusher]

Man...im not gonna lie.. i still cry when i hear that song.. call me gay.. but whatever...i also get chocked up when i hear SSB...man...
See.. I love my country and our people. It aint perfect and its got its Checkered past.. but God damn, its still America..
I want all our policies to work. I want everyone to be able to eat. I call that a patriot, but some here would call it communisim. I know everyone hasnt had the same advantages i had, Thats why im for universal healthcare. Not because of the handout shit, but because in our system someone has to be at the top but someone also has to scrub toilets.

There s  long history of humankind as to what generally works and what is destined for failure.  this i why i am dead set against the Obama Admn.  it seems as though this admn never opened a history book.

[Option D]

I'm the same way on Greenwoods song and the SSB.  I bet I heard/sang Greenwoods song 1000 times i bootcamp...hahaha.....an d believe me there were a couple of times that the majority of us were teared up.  NOTHING wrong with that.  And I hear you on feeding people, etc...  I grew up very poor and others around me even worse.....I think all MOST people want is a legit chance at the "American Dream"  and when they don't get it, thats what pisses me off.

Yeah.,...My dad did 3 tours in nam.. he is the definition of a patriot...
BTW im listening to "America Fuck yeah" right now

[Soul Crusher]

Yeah.,...My dad did 3 tours in nam.. he is the definition of a patriot...
BTW im listening to "America Fuck yeah" right now

I have this on shaking the wall in the office.    The walls are literally shaking from the surround sound an bass tubes.    

[Cohibia]

No - I believe obama's complete failure and collapse = America succeeding since his agenda and policies are fundamentally damaging and detrimental to our nation.  

Cap & Trade failing = lower prices = better for average guy.

ObamaCare collapsing = more choices, lower costs, less intrusive nanny state.  

Amnesty - FUBO.  Fuck him.  Let his moronic ass go back to Moombasa and preach that crap.  

More Spending and the Stim Bill?    - Yeah that wrked out well - NNNOOTT! !   !

Terrorist trials in NYC - I'll leave that alone or I will will have DHS after me.  


and on and on.  

Every single policy and position of this WH is against all common sense, decency, and norms of reality.  

In conclusion - his losses = America's gain.        

meltdown

[Soul Crusher]

No - its the damn truth.  Every single policy of this horrific admn is meant to intentionally destroy the nation and enrich the upper .05% while collapsing the rest of us. 


You guys make me laugh when you throw accusations at me about Obama.  How much more honest can i be?  His failures and collapse  = America's gain. 

Al Quaeda, Hamas, Tamil Tigers, The PLO, the Zetas in Mexico, MS 13, the Italian/Albanian/Greek/Russian/ mafia, the Yakuza in Japan, the Triads in Chinatown, the USSR, Nazi Germany, Tojo's Japan, Kaiser Whilhelm, England of 1776 & 1812, etc etc could not come up with a better plan to collapse the nation than Obama has laid out.

Yes, that is what i believe of his policy agenda. 



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