Author Topic: YOU LIE!!!! - Obama now defends Insurance Mandate as a Tax in Court proceedings.  (Read 7540 times)

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41777
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Changing Stance, Administration Now Defends Insurance Mandate as a TaxBy ROBERT PEAR
Published: July 16, 2010
www.nyt.com


________________________ _________________-


WASHINGTON — When Congress required most Americans to obtain health insurance or pay a penalty, Democrats denied that they were creating a new tax. But in court, the Obama administration and its allies now defend the requirement as an exercise of the government’s “power to lay and collect taxes.”

And that power, they say, is even more sweeping than the federal power to regulate interstate commerce.

Administration officials say the tax argument is a linchpin of their legal case in defense of the health care overhaul and its individual mandate, now being challenged in court by more than 20 states and several private organizations.

Under the legislation signed by President Obama in March, most Americans will have to maintain “minimum essential coverage” starting in 2014. Many people will be eligible for federal subsidies to help them pay premiums.

In a brief defending the law, the Justice Department says the requirement for people to carry insurance or pay the penalty is “a valid exercise” of Congress’s power to impose taxes.

Congress can use its taxing power “even for purposes that would exceed its powers under other provisions” of the Constitution, the department said. For more than a century, it added, the Supreme Court has held that Congress can tax activities that it could not reach by using its power to regulate commerce.

While Congress was working on the health care legislation, Mr. Obama refused to accept the argument that a mandate to buy insurance, enforced by financial penalties, was equivalent to a tax.

“For us to say that you’ve got to take a responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase,” the president said last September, in a spirited exchange with George Stephanopoulos on the ABC News program “This Week.”

When Mr. Stephanopoulos said the penalty appeared to fit the dictionary definition of a tax, Mr. Obama replied, “I absolutely reject that notion.”


Congress anticipated a constitutional challenge to the individual mandate. Accordingly, the law includes 10 detailed findings meant to show that the mandate regulates commercial activity important to the nation’s economy. Nowhere does Congress cite its taxing power as a source of authority.

Under the Constitution, Congress can exercise its taxing power to provide for the “general welfare.” It is for Congress, not courts, to decide which taxes are “conducive to the general welfare,” the Supreme Court said 73 years ago in upholding the Social Security Act.

Dan Pfeiffer, the White House communications director, described the tax power as an alternative source of authority.

“The Commerce Clause supplies sufficient authority for the shared-responsibility requirements in the new health reform law,” Mr. Pfeiffer said. “To the extent that there is any question of additional authority — and we don’t believe there is — it would be available through the General Welfare Clause.”

The law describes the levy on the uninsured as a “penalty” rather than a tax. The Justice Department brushes aside the distinction, saying “the statutory label” does not matter. The constitutionality of a tax law depends on “its practical operation,” not the precise form of words used to describe it, the department says, citing a long line of Supreme Court cases.

Moreover, the department says the penalty is a tax because it will raise substantial revenue: $4 billion a year by 2017, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

In addition, the department notes, the penalty is imposed and collected under the Internal Revenue Code, and people must report it on their tax returns “as an addition to income tax liability.”

Because the penalty is a tax, the department says, no one can challenge it in court before paying it and seeking a refund.

Jack M. Balkin, a professor at Yale Law School who supports the new law, said, “The tax argument is the strongest argument for upholding” the individual-coverage requirement.

Mr. Obama “has not been honest with the American people about the nature of this bill,” Mr. Balkin said last month at a meeting of the American Constitution Society, a progressive legal organization. “This bill is a tax. Because it’s a tax, it’s completely constitutional.”

Mr. Balkin and other law professors pressed that argument in a friend-of-the-court brief filed in one of the pending cases.

Opponents contend that the “minimum coverage provision” is unconstitutional because it exceeds Congress’s power to regulate commerce.

“This is the first time that Congress has ever ordered Americans to use their own money to purchase a particular good or service,” said Senator Orrin G. Hatch, Republican of Utah.

In their lawsuit, Florida and other states say: “Congress is attempting to regulate and penalize Americans for choosing not to engage in economic activity. If Congress can do this much, there will be virtually no sphere of private decision-making beyond the reach of federal power.”

In reply, the administration and its allies say that a person who goes without insurance is simply choosing to pay for health care out of pocket at a later date. In the aggregate, they say, these decisions have a substantial effect on the interstate market for health care and health insurance.

In its legal briefs, the Obama administration points to a famous New Deal case, Wickard v. Filburn, in which the Supreme Court upheld a penalty imposed on an Ohio farmer who had grown a small amount of wheat, in excess of his production quota, purely for his own use.

The wheat grown by Roscoe Filburn “may be trivial by itself,” the court said, but when combined with the output of other small farmers, it significantly affected interstate commerce and could therefore be regulated by the government as part of a broad scheme regulating interstate commerce.


________________________ ____________________

“For us to say that you’ve got to take a responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase,” the president said last September, in a spirited exchange with George Stephanopoulos on the ABC News program “This Week.”

When Mr. Stephanopoulos said the penalty appeared to fit the dictionary definition of a tax, Mr. Obama replied, “I absolutely reject that notion.”





________________________ __________________--


YOU F%^ING MORONS STILL BELIEVING ANYTHING FROM THIS WH ARE NOT WORTHY OF THE RIGHT TO VOTE. 

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41777
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
What a lying sack of shit.  Seriously, shame on anyone still supporting this communist dirtbag.

The lies, the doublespeak, the manipulation, etc. 

FUBO!


Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41777
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Lost in Taxation
The IRS's vast new ObamaCare powers..
www.wsj.com

________________________ ________________________ _-



If it seems as if the tax code was conceived by graphic artist M.C. Escher, wait until you meet the new and not improved Internal Revenue Service created by ObamaCare. What, you're not already on a first-name basis with your local IRS agent?

National Taxpayer Advocate Nina Olson, who operates inside the IRS, highlighted the agency's new mission in her annual report to Congress last week. Look out below. She notes that the IRS is already "greatly taxed"—pun intended?—"by the additional role it is playing in delivering social benefits and programs to the American public," like tax credits for first-time homebuyers or purchasing electric cars. Yet with ObamaCare, the agency is now responsible for "the most extensive social benefit program the IRS has been asked to implement in recent history." And without "sufficient funding" it won't be able to discharge these new duties.


 .That wouldn't be tragic, given that those new duties include audits to determine who has the insurance "as required by law" and collecting penalties from Americans who don't. Companies that don't sponsor health plans will also be punished. This crackdown will "involve nearly every division and function of the IRS," Ms. Olson reports.

Well, well. Republicans argued during the health debate that the IRS would have to hire hundreds of new agents and staff to enforce ObamaCare. They were brushed off by Democrats and the press corps as if they believed the President was born on the moon. The IRS says it hasn't figured out how much extra money and manpower it will need but admits that both numbers are greater than zero.

Ms. Olson also exposed a damaging provision that she estimates will hit some 30 million sole proprietorships and subchapter S corporations, two million farms and one million charities and other tax-exempt organizations. Prior to ObamaCare, businesses only had to tell the IRS the value of services they purchase. But starting in 2013 they will also have to report the value of goods they buy from a single vendor that total more than $600 annually—including office supplies and the like.


Democrats snuck in this obligation to narrow the mythical "tax gap" of unreported business income, but Ms. Olson says that the tracking costs for small businesses will be "disproportionate as compared with any resulting improvement in tax compliance." Job creation, here we come . . . at least for the accountants who will attempt to comply with a vast new 1099 reporting burden.

Meanwhile, the IRS will be inundated with useless information, because without a huge upgrade its information systems won't be able to manage and track the nanodetails.

In a Monday letter, even Democratic Senators Mark Begich (Alaska), Ben Nelson (Nebraska), Jeanne Shaheen (New Hampshire) and Evan Bayh (Indiana) denounce this new "burden" on small businesses and insist that the IRS use its discretion to find "better ways to structure this reporting requirement." In other words, they want regulators to fix one problem among many that all four Senators created by voting for ObamaCare.

We never thought anyone would be nostalgic for the tax system of a few months ago, but post-ObamaCare, here we are.


________________________ ______________________

And the stupid morons like blacken, mons, benny, straw, et al wonder why small businesses claim obama is anti-business? ? ?  ::)  ::)  ::)

Montague

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 14614
  • The black degelation does not know this nig - V.G.
WASHINGTON — When Congress required most Americans to obtain health insurance or pay a penalty, Democrats denied that they were creating a new tax. But in court, the Obama administration and its allies now defend the requirement as an exercise of the government’s “power to lay and collect taxes.”

In a brief defending the law, the Justice Department says the requirement for people to carry insurance or pay the penalty is “a valid exercise” of Congress’s power to impose taxes.

Congress can use its taxing power “even for purposes that would exceed its powers under other provisions” of the Constitution, the department said. For more than a century, it added, the Supreme Court has held that Congress can tax activities that it could not reach by using its power to regulate commerce.

While Congress was working on the health care legislation, Mr. Obama refused to accept the argument that a mandate to buy insurance, enforced by financial penalties, was equivalent to a tax.

“For us to say that you’ve got to take a responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase,” the president said last September, in a spirited exchange with George Stephanopoulos on the ABC News program “This Week.”

When Mr. Stephanopoulos said the penalty appeared to fit the dictionary definition of a tax, Mr. Obama replied, “I absolutely reject that notion.”


Mr. Obama “has not been honest with the American people about the nature of this bill,” Mr. Balkin said last month at a meeting of the American Constitution Society, a progressive legal organization. “This bill is a tax. Because it’s a tax, it’s completely constitutional.”

“This is the first time that Congress has ever ordered Americans to use their own money to purchase a particular good or service,” said Senator Orrin G. Hatch, Republican of Utah.



I’m sure there’s an explanation, 33.
And, I’m sure we’ll get one soon from from one of the Kenyan Apostles.

It’ll be completely void of any kind of sense - either non-sequitur in nature, or deflecting branching off into some other direction (most likely towards the vicinity of Jr. or Palin)…

But, we’ll get an explanation.

MCWAY

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19346
  • Getbig!

I’m sure there’s an explanation, 33.
And, I’m sure we’ll get one soon from from one of the Kenyan Apostles.

It’ll be completely void of any kind of sense - either non-sequitur in nature, or deflecting branching off into some other direction (most likely towards the vicinity of Jr. or Palin)…

But, we’ll get an explanation.


We know the explanation (but, I'll refrain from posting the "Team Kneepadder" unofficial-official theme song, here).

Bottom line: Obama promised that the middle-class folks' taxes wouldn't go up "one single dime". If ObamaCare is indeed a tax, that just shows that Obama is a big fat liar. That's why the Dems are on chartered course to the political woodshed, as they bribed, scammed, and conned their way to passing this BS without the American people's backing on it.


Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41777
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Again, 240, Blacken, Benny, Dabby, et al - SILENT

Skip8282

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7004
I'd like to see how the Gibbs is going to try and spin this shit.

Montague

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 14614
  • The black degelation does not know this nig - V.G.
They’ll spin it…

ignore it…

or do anything, but acknowledge that it was wrong.


Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41777
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 66457
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
The president has some explaining to do.

pro nitrousADRL

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 870
  • put more nitrous on that, it still has spark plugs
gosh  another lie from hussein !!!  i would have never imagined.
down with hussein

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41777
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Benny Butthead has been spamming the board with his obama worship yet remains silent on this lie.  Go figure.   ::)  ::) 

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41777
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
July 19, 2010
An Ugly Preview of ObamaCare
www.realclearpolitics.co m
By Robert Samuelson




WASHINGTON -- If you want a preview of President Obama's health care "reform," take a look at Massachusetts. In 2006, it enacted a "reform" that became a model for Obama. What's happened since isn't encouraging. The state did the easy part: expanding state-subsidized insurance coverage. It evaded the hard part: controlling costs and ensuring that spending improves people's health. Unfortunately, Obama has done the same.

Like Obama, Massachusetts requires most individuals to have health insurance (the "individual mandate"). To aid middle-class families too well-off to qualify for Medicaid -- government insurance for the poor -- the state subsidizes insurance for people up to three times the federal poverty line (about $66,000 in 2008 for a family of four). Together, the mandate and subsidies have raised insurance coverage from 87.5 percent of the non-elderly population in 2006 to 95.2 percent in the fall of 2009, report Sharon Long and Karen Stockley of the Urban Institute.

People have more access to treatment, though changes are small. In 2006, 87 percent of the non-elderly had a "usual source of care," presumably a doctor or clinic, note Long and Stockley in the journal Health Affairs. By 2009, that was 89.9 percent. In 2006, 70.9 percent received "preventive care"; in 2009, that was 77.7 percent. Out-of-pocket costs were less burdensome.

But much didn't change. Emergency rooms remain as crowded as ever; about a third of the non-elderly go at least once a year, and half their visits involve "non-emergency conditions." As for improvements in health, most probably lie in the future. "Many of the uninsured were young and healthy," writes Long. Their "expected gains in health status" would be mostly long-term. Finally -- and most important -- health costs continue to soar.

Aside from squeezing take-home pay (employers provide almost 70 percent of insurance), higher costs have automatically shifted government priorities toward health care and away from everything else -- schools, police, roads, prisons, lower taxes. In 1990, health spending represented about 16 percent of the state budget, says the Massachusetts Taxpayers Foundation. By 2000, health's share was 22 percent. In 2010, it's 35 percent. About 90 percent of the health spending is Medicaid.

State leaders have proven powerless to control these costs. Facing a tough re-election campaign, Gov. Deval Patrick effectively ordered his insurance commissioner to reject premium increases for small employers (50 workers or less) and individuals -- an unprecedented step. Commissioner Joseph Murphy then disallowed premium increases ranging from 7 percent to 34 percent. The insurers appealed; hearing examiners ruled Murphy's action illegal. Murphy has now settled with one insurer allowing premium increases, he says, of 7 percent to 11 percent. More settlements are expected.

Attacking unpopular insurance companies is easy -- and ultimately ineffectual. The trouble is that they're mostly middlemen. They collect premiums and pay providers: doctors, hospitals, clinics. Limiting premiums without controlling the costs of providers will ultimately cause insurer bankruptcies, which would then threaten providers because they won't be fully reimbursed. The state might regulate hospitals' and doctors' fees directly; but in the past, providers have often offset lower rates by performing more tests and procedures.

A year ago, a state commission urged another approach: Scrap the present "fee-for-service" system. The commission argued that fee-for-service -- which ties reimbursement to individual services -- rewards quantity over quality and discourages coordinated care among doctors and hospitals. The commission recommended a "global payments" system to force hospitals, doctors and clinics to create networks ("accountable care organizations"). These would receive flat per-patient payments to promote effective -- not just expensive -- care. Payments would be "risk adjusted"; sicker patients would justify higher payments.

But the commission offered no blueprint, and efforts to craft consensus among providers, consumer groups and insurers have failed. State Senate President Therese Murray, an advocate of payment change, has given up for this year. "Nobody is in agreement on anything," she told The Boston Globe.

All this anticipates Obamacare. Even if its modest measures to restrain costs succeed -- which seems unlikely -- the effect on overall spending would be slight. The system's fundamental incentives won't change. The lesson from Massachusetts is that genuine cost control is avoided because it's so politically difficult. It means curbing the incomes of doctors, hospitals and other providers. They object. To encourage "accountable care organizations" would limit consumer choice of doctors and hospitals. That's unpopular. Spending restrictions, whether imposed by regulation or "global payments," raise the specter of essential care denied. Also unpopular.

Obama dodged the tough issues in favor of grandstanding. Imitating Patrick, he's already denouncing insurers' rates, as if that would solve the spending problem. What's occurring in Massachusetts is the plausible future: Unchecked health spending determines government priorities and inflates budget deficits and taxes, with small health gains. And they call this "reform"?

James

  • Guest
With the new mandates go into affect this September,  premiums for a 30 year old will be around $700 to $800 a month with in 2 years.

How is that for Hope and Change  :(

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41777
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Mine just jumped by 25% for no reason other than CommieCare.  

James- I am not kidding, i have rid every Obama voter from my life.  I had one friend, who I told flat out - I won't have any association whatsoever in my personal life with anyone who voted for this and cheered it on.  

  

James

  • Guest
The average young family that makes too much for Medicaid, will be paying around $2500 to $3000 a month in 2 years. Many Employers will be forced to drop their health insurance, and pay the penalty instead. With the increase amount of people on Medicaid,, you will have 6 month waiting period for a Doctor visit (or longer)  Everyone will be forced to get medical records online, and to have an Obesity check, that will go off of height and weight, that means most people that Body build,  will be told to lose weight by the Government.

Hold on tight, as its going to get ruff very soon.  

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41777
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
This whole admn is beyond traitorous. 

James

  • Guest
Before long, every city will be like Detroit.

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41777
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Notice Mons, Straw, 240, Blacken, Benny, et al are not here to kneepad this. 

They are probably far too embarassed considering we were proven right again about this Thug-in-Chief's lies about this horric law.   

James

  • Guest
Notice Mons, Straw, 240, Blacken, Benny, et al are not here to kneepad this.  

They are probably far too embarassed considering we were proven right again about this Thug-in-Chief's lies about this horric law.  

Once the ramifications take hold in 2 years, anyone who works for a living that supported this, will have serious buyers remorse.

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41777
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Once the ramifications take hold in 2 years, anyone who works for a living that supported this, will have serious buyers remorse.

If they have not realized the disaster that everything this communist, traitor, sleeper cell of the POTUS is intended to collapse the system, they never will. 

People like Straw, 240, et al care more about Palins' baby than the details of these horrific laws.   

dario73

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6467
  • Getbig!
Bump.

Liberal/leftwing nut jobs are awfully silent.

Bindare_Dundat

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12227
  • KILL CENTRAL BANKS, BUY BITCOIN.
I guess Benny didn't see this thread while in his crack induced posting frenzy last night. Poor guy, he's really losing it.

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41777
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
What's their to defend.  Obama clearly lied.  Not even 240, despite his valient efforts, can defend this pofs traitor anymore.  

Watch this clip, the lies he tells are staggering.   I swear, as much as I like 240 on a personal level, his kneepadding and shilling for this admn is really wearing on me as these lies are exposed that we all warned of early on.     


kcballer

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4597
  • In you I feel so pretty, In you I taste God
Yep, bad lie right there.  Good find 333.
Abandon every hope...