Author Topic: Clean Needles - Should we provide them?  (Read 6321 times)

tonymctones

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Re: Clean Needles - Should we provide them?
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2010, 01:27:59 PM »
LOL you know just killing all those who are addicts and with aids would be even cheaper...why not that kc/kaje?

how about criminals why even have a life sentence? that would save tons of money?

the govt should not be a willing accomplice in breaking the law...how about we just stop treating these ppl with addictions and aids that would also save us alot of money?

drkaje

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Re: Clean Needles - Should we provide them?
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2010, 01:29:49 PM »
LOL you know just killing all those who are addicts and with aids would be even cheaper...why not that kc/kaje?

how about criminals why even have a life sentence? that would save tons of money?

the govt should not be a willing accomplice in breaking the law...how about we just stop treating these ppl with addictions and aids that would also save us alot of money?

It would be a lot easier/cheaper tracking down researchers.

tonymctones

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Re: Clean Needles - Should we provide them?
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2010, 01:37:58 PM »
It would be a lot easier/cheaper tracking down researchers.
to what end? that wont stop the transmition of aids or our spending on it...

why dont we just stop treating these ppl?

hey doc is it normal for your sternum to pop? sorry to get off topic, mine pops from time to time and everyonce in a while it gets real tight until it either pops or just kinda goes away?

Soul Crusher

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Re: Clean Needles - Should we provide them?
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2010, 01:48:20 PM »
Fat people know eating too much causes health problems. What about them?

Screw em, let em die young and we save the SS money. 

Actions/Inactions have consequences. 

Dos Equis

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Re: Clean Needles - Should we provide them?
« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2010, 01:50:18 PM »
LOL you know just killing all those who are addicts and with aids would be even cheaper...why not that kc/kaje?

how about criminals why even have a life sentence? that would save tons of money?

the govt should not be a willing accomplice in breaking the law...how about we just stop treating these ppl with addictions and aids that would also save us alot of money?

Agree.

The Showstoppa

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Re: Clean Needles - Should we provide them?
« Reply #30 on: July 21, 2010, 01:58:20 PM »
Drugs are bad, mmmmkay......

tonymctones

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Re: Clean Needles - Should we provide them?
« Reply #31 on: July 21, 2010, 02:01:56 PM »

drkaje

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Re: Clean Needles - Should we provide them?
« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2010, 02:12:32 PM »
Screw em, let em die young and we save the SS money. 

Actions/Inactions have consequences. 

Insulin and other meds keep them alive forever.

Dos Equis

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Re: Clean Needles - Should we provide them?
« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2010, 02:15:03 PM »
;D ;D ;D


lol.  And don't have sex with underaged prostitutes. 

Soul Crusher

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Re: Clean Needles - Should we provide them?
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2010, 02:26:33 PM »
Insulin and other meds keep them alive forever.

Thats' fine, but make them pay for it. 

Montague

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Re: Clean Needles - Should we provide them?
« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2010, 02:32:27 PM »
The government shouldn't be giving a drug addict needles so the addict can continue to break the law and destroy his/her body.


I know what you're saying, Beach, but they're gonna shoot up whether we supply clean needles or no needles at all.
Providing sanitary drug accessories may help contain the spread of diseases.
It's not as if they'd be supplying the drugs.

Dos Equis

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Re: Clean Needles - Should we provide them?
« Reply #36 on: July 21, 2010, 02:40:28 PM »

I know what you're saying, Beach, but they're gonna shoot up whether we supply clean needles or no needles at all.
Providing sanitary drug accessories may help contain the spread of diseases.
It's not as if they'd be supplying the drugs.


I hear you.  I can see a benefit to giving them clean needles.  I just think the bad outweighs the good. 

kcballer

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Re: Clean Needles - Should we provide them?
« Reply #37 on: July 21, 2010, 02:53:22 PM »
I hear you.  I can see a benefit to giving them clean needles.  I just think the bad outweighs the good. 

So the bad in your scenario outweighs an HIV epidemic fueling higher costs as tax payers foot the bill for anti retrovirals for hundreds of thousands of new infections?  Even Iran of all places sees the light on this and they don't exactly have a junkie culture do they? 

We spend billions on AIDS and HIV annually yet we can't even set up safe injection sites to stop a continuing epidemic in our own country?  Come on now it's proven to be the cheapest and easiest way to contain the spread of HIV.  Lets not even mention that the addicts who decide to get clean through a clean needle exchange center, they have staff on hand to direct them, stay clean longer than those forced into it.  So right away you're not 'condoning' anything.  You are treating a disease with medical supervision just as you would diabetes or cancer. 
Abandon every hope...

drkaje

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Re: Clean Needles - Should we provide them?
« Reply #38 on: July 21, 2010, 03:01:08 PM »
So the bad in your scenario outweighs an HIV epidemic fueling higher costs as tax payers foot the bill for anti retrovirals for hundreds of thousands of new infections?  Even Iran of all places sees the light on this and they don't exactly have a junkie culture do they? 

We spend billions on AIDS and HIV annually yet we can't even set up safe injection sites to stop a continuing epidemic in our own country?  Come on now it's proven to be the cheapest and easiest way to contain the spread of HIV.  Lets not even mention that the addicts who decide to get clean through a clean needle exchange center, they have staff on hand to direct them, stay clean longer than those forced into it.  So right away you're not 'condoning' anything.  You are treating a disease with medical supervision just as you would diabetes or cancer. 

The religious POV isn't based upon a faith their way is right, not logic. If needles, condoms and sex education, gay marriage worked people might start thinking they were wrong about other things.

If only having one option most would choose feeling right over actually being correct.

Dos Equis

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Re: Clean Needles - Should we provide them?
« Reply #39 on: July 21, 2010, 03:07:08 PM »
So the bad in your scenario outweighs an HIV epidemic fueling higher costs as tax payers foot the bill for anti retrovirals for hundreds of thousands of new infections?  Even Iran of all places sees the light on this and they don't exactly have a junkie culture do they? 

We spend billions on AIDS and HIV annually yet we can't even set up safe injection sites to stop a continuing epidemic in our own country?  Come on now it's proven to be the cheapest and easiest way to contain the spread of HIV.  Lets not even mention that the addicts who decide to get clean through a clean needle exchange center, they have staff on hand to direct them, stay clean longer than those forced into it.  So right away you're not 'condoning' anything.  You are treating a disease with medical supervision just as you would diabetes or cancer. 

 What HIV epidemic are you talking about?  

I think HIV primarily affects a very small percentage of the American population.  My take on the disease changed after reading a book by Tony Brown that talked about how the disease was transmitted.  I created a thread (or posted in a different thread) a while back about this.  According to the people he interviewed who have studied the disease, it is primarily transmitted in one of two ways:  intravenous drug use and a third world health condition.  I pretty much agree with his conclusion.  I can bump the thread if you're interested.  

The easiest and cheapest way for an IV drug user to stop spreading diseases is to stop using drugs.  

I don't agree with your comparison to cancer, etc.  We don't give cigarettes to cancer patients.  We don't prescribe candy to a diabetic.  We get them away from the things that caused/exacerbate their diseases.    

Dos Equis

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Re: Clean Needles - Should we provide them?
« Reply #40 on: July 21, 2010, 03:07:36 PM »
The religious POV isn't based upon a faith their way is right, not logic. If needles, condoms and sex education, gay marriage worked people might start thinking they were wrong about other things.

If only having one option most would choose feeling right over actually being correct.

 ::)

Skip8282

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Re: Clean Needles - Should we provide them?
« Reply #41 on: July 21, 2010, 03:19:28 PM »
I don't agree with your comparison to cancer, etc.  We don't give cigarettes to cancer patients.  We don't prescribe candy to a diabetic.  We get them away from the things that caused/exacerbate their diseases.   





And we're not giving drugs to drug users.  Just a clean tool.  If diabetics were forced to reuse needles, I suppose I would support helping them too.

These programs tend to be cheap and effective from the studies, but I think we have to have a multi-pronged attack with working to get them off the drugs as you advocate.

Montague

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Re: Clean Needles - Should we provide them?
« Reply #42 on: July 21, 2010, 03:25:27 PM »
I’m not concerned with helping people come off drugs that they choose to take.
Let them.
It’s their choice, and the world is overpopulated, anyway.

My concern is containment of disease that can spread to and effect innocent people.


Dos Equis

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Re: Clean Needles - Should we provide them?
« Reply #43 on: July 21, 2010, 03:44:21 PM »



And we're not giving drugs to drug users.  Just a clean tool.  If diabetics were forced to reuse needles, I suppose I would support helping them too.

These programs tend to be cheap and effective from the studies, but I think we have to have a multi-pronged attack with working to get them off the drugs as you advocate.

I really don't see a major distinction between giving an addict a drug vs. giving him the needle to use the drug.  

I don't think a diabetic is analgous to a drug addict.  An addict can (and should) quit using.  A diabetic is taking medicine to stay alive, not an illegal substance that will harm him.

I understand the rationale behind giving addicts needles.  It's just something I'm not comfortable with.

drkaje

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Re: Clean Needles - Should we provide them?
« Reply #44 on: July 21, 2010, 03:48:17 PM »
I really don't see a major distinction between giving an addict a drug vs. giving him the needle to use the drugs.   

I don't think a diabetic is analgous to a drug addict.  An addict can (and should) quit using.  A diabetic is taking medicine to stay alive, not an illegal substance that will harm him.

I understand the rationale behind giving addicts needles.  It's just something I'm not comfortable with.


Many obese people are food addicts. Diabetes is just one of the diseases they end up with.

I'd prefer people not inject crap as well but at least safely done it may save the country money and some lives.

Montague

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Re: Clean Needles - Should we provide them?
« Reply #45 on: July 21, 2010, 03:56:06 PM »
I really don't see a major distinction between giving an addict a drug vs. giving him the needle to use the drug.


You have every right to be concerned, but people don't get addicted to needles.

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: Clean Needles - Should we provide them?
« Reply #46 on: July 21, 2010, 04:01:41 PM »
It's an interesting topic considering the international HIV/AIDS conference is going on right now in Vienna.  Studies have proven again and again that access to clean needles and safe injection sites not only reduces HIV, and subsequently AIDS, but in doing so reduces overall health costs from overdoses, infections, anti-retrovirals, it helps addicts get clean when they decide they want to get clean and it helps those who are not addicts get clean needles so they don't share with others. 

What is the getbig consensus on this?  Saving money and lives is a good thing?  Or drugs are bad and those who do them should suffer? 

No,

I know it sounds horrible, but I'm not losing sleep over these people being infected.

 :-\
S

Fury

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Re: Clean Needles - Should we provide them?
« Reply #47 on: July 21, 2010, 04:02:22 PM »
No reason not to have a syringe exchange in inner city neighborhoods or other areas where drug use is rampant.

Dos Equis

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Re: Clean Needles - Should we provide them?
« Reply #48 on: July 21, 2010, 04:03:44 PM »
I’m not concerned with helping people come off drugs that they choose to take.
Let them.
It’s their choice, and the world is overpopulated, anyway.

My concern is containment of disease that can spread to and effect innocent people.



How big of a problem is this?  Specifically, how rampant is the spread of HIV from an IV drug user to an "innocent" person?  

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: Clean Needles - Should we provide them?
« Reply #49 on: July 21, 2010, 04:07:01 PM »
It's actually senseless not to give these worthless fucks clean needles if we're going to be forced to provide them medical care anyway...

 :-\
S