Scott Steiner shoots hardcore on other wrestlers / backstage politics...

[Playboy]

In Japan, you could get away with that to a surprising degree...
And, Andre truly loathed most people - especially later in his career.


Ha-ha…really no specific instances.
I guess I just took for granted that everyone these days was “smart” and capable of watching & enjoying a wrestling show for what it is.

Suffice to say there are still marks!

The Japanese fans seem to realize & acknowledge that it’s a work and appreciate the performance.
North American indy-fans…
They fail to suspend disbelief the way you would at a magic show or play.
They watch it as if it’s a football game, and seem to miss out on enjoying what it truly is.
As a result, there's a lot of work that goes unappreciated.

It really lowered my faith in mankind, in general.
 

You nailed it right on the head with this spot-on post.

[Montague]

Years ago, people bought into it.
Fans would cry and have panick attacks when Bruno was in trouble.

But, you really have to wonder how anyone ever believed it was “real.”
I mean, you’d think the names alone would have given it away.
Did you ever know anyone who named their kid The Missing Link?
Did they ever announce a pro-boxer as hailing from Parts Unknown?

And that was back then!
I thought that, surely, we’d evolved since that time, but…

As far as “smarks” and “marks,” I don’t know that one is necessarily better than the other.
I think that both demographics take things too far, albeit for different reasons.
Neither knows how to sit there and just have fun.
That's really all it's meant to be.


Unfortunately, it seems that marks & smarks are about the only people who buy tickets to indy shows anymore, and you need to cater to your target audience.

There aren’t too many “casual” fans who tune into the smaller promotions - at least not the way they did back in the territory days.
A lot of people “got into it” back then, too, but more for fun & entertainment.

They didn’t whip out their fukking Blackberry during the matches and tweet a 12-page list of critiques as to just why the A.J. Styles/Chris Daniels match sucked big, hairy donkey dick - before suggesting how Styles & Daniels should have worked the match, and consequently, how much better it would have been.

Pricks.

[Playboy]

Years ago, people bought into it.
Fans would cry and have panick attacks when Bruno was in trouble.

But, you really have to wonder how anyone ever believed it was “real.”
I mean, you’d think the names alone would have given it away.
Did you ever know anyone who named their kid The Missing Link?
Did they ever announce a pro-boxer as hailing from Parts Unknown?

And that was back then!
I thought that, surely, we’d evolved since that time, but…

As far as “smarks” and “marks,” I don’t know that one is necessarily better than the other.
I think that both demographics take things too far, albeit for different reasons.
Neither knows how to sit there and just have fun.
That's really all it's meant to be.


Unfortunately, it seems that marks & smarks are about the only people who buy tickets to indy shows anymore, and you need to cater to your target audience.

There aren’t too many “casual” fans who tune into the smaller promotions - at least not the way they did back in the territory days.
A lot of people “got into it” back then, too, but more for fun & entertainment.

They didn’t whip out their fukking Blackberry during the matches and tweet a 12-page list of critiques as to just why the A.J. Styles/Chris Daniels match sucked big, hairy donkey dick - before suggesting how Styles & Daniels should have worked the match, and consequently, how much better it would have been.

Pricks.

It actually makes me laugh how people react. Watch the Randy Savage vs Ultimate Warrior retirement match for example. Look at the people on camara after the match. There are people actually crying...wtf? Crying  Its a wrestling / entertainment match FFS. Even when Earthquake injured Hogan on the Brother Love Show back in 1990. Same deal. You almost wanna tell people to grow up.

[The Showstoppa]

I think part of the problem is that way too many younger fans are "smartened" up so early...they are the ones who used to cry, etc... as their dad or older brothers kinda grinned behind their back and helped to sell it to them.....teens are when you got into the smartass stuff, except in my day it was by cheering for the Four Horseman instead of the faces....and older fans just went along for the ride.

Now, everybody in the crowd except maybe 5% are all over the internet, digging up details, etc... instead of just suspending belief for a few hours and enjoying themselves.

[Playboy]

I think part of the problem is that way too many younger fans are "smartened" up so early...they are the ones who used to cry, etc... as their dad or older brothers kinda grinned behind their back and helped to sell it to them.....teens are when you got into the smartass stuff, except in my day it was by cheering for the Four Horseman instead of the faces....and older fans just went along for the ride.

Now, everybody in the crowd except maybe 5% are all over the internet, digging up details, etc... instead of just suspending belief for a few hours and enjoying themselves.

Sounds like some of us!

[The Showstoppa]

Sounds like some of us!

haha, man I was sure in the late 90's when it was all just kinda breaking out.  It was so cool to read the backstage stuff.  I did burn out on it though and haven't been to any of those news sites on a regular basis in a few years. 

[Playboy]

haha, man I was sure in the late 90's when it was all just kinda breaking out.  It was so cool to read the backstage stuff.  I did burn out on it though and haven't been to any of those news sites on a regular basis in a few years. 

I comb those sites every day before I start work just to see the scoops on whats going on.

[Montague]

Back in the early days of The Wrestling Observer, sometimes promoters and even wrestlers themselves would scan the dirt sheets to learn what was going on in the industry.

Sometimes, they could uncover information about their own promotion. 

[The Showstoppa]

Back in the early days of The Wrestling Observer, sometimes promoters and even wrestlers themselves would scan the dirt sheets to learn what was going on in the industry.

Sometimes, they could uncover information about their own promotion. 

I've heard that.  Wasn't there also allegations that WCW in particular was playing too much to the smarks instead of the avg fan at that point?

[Montague]

I've heard that.  Wasn't there also allegations that WCW in particular was playing too much to the smarks instead of the avg fan at that point?

I honestly know nothing about those allegations, but that’s not to say they didn’t.

I always felt that Crockett targeted and drew more the “traditional” fans with a product truer to the tradition of wrestling‘s territory days. 
And let’s face facts: the pre-Turner NWA/WCW was always a lot more “serious” than the WWF; especially during the era of clowns, garbage men, and Adam Bomb’s.

If the serious fans/smarks gravitated towards NWA after giving up on the WWF circus, then maybe it’s fair to say that Crockett’s product catered to them, but only by following the same formula they had all along.

[The Showstoppa]

I honestly know nothing about those allegations, but that’s not to say they didn’t.

I always felt that Crockett targeted and drew more the “traditional” fans with a product truer to the tradition of wrestling‘s territory days. 
And let’s face facts: the pre-Turner NWA/WCW was always a lot more “serious” than the WWF; especially during the era of clowns, garbage men, and Adam Bomb’s.

If the serious fans/smarks gravitated towards NWA after giving up on the WWF circus, then maybe it’s fair to say that Crockett’s product catered to them, but only by following the same formula they had all along.

Totally agree with what you say that "serious" fans always gravitated to the NWA.  But what I really meant was more during the climb of WCW to overtake the WWF, there were a lot of rumors flying with the "smarks" and a lot of it would get addressed on TV, for example Nash using the clique symbol and giving a shout out to Shawn on the way to the ring, etc...  it was felt that WCW was kinda alienating the more casual fan who just tuned in, by trying to please the internet crowd.  Who knows...

[Playboy]

Back in the early days of The Wrestling Observer, sometimes promoters and even wrestlers themselves would scan the dirt sheets to learn what was going on in the industry.

Sometimes, they could uncover information about their own promotion. 

Sometimes they will also leak out false information just to throw a knuckle ball at us fans who surf the net.

[Montague]

Totally agree with what you say that "serious" fans always gravitated to the NWA.  But what I really meant was more during the climb of WCW to overtake the WWF, there were a lot of rumors flying with the "smarks" and a lot of it would get addressed on TV, for example Nash using the clique symbol and giving a shout out to Shawn on the way to the ring, etc...  it was felt that WCW was kinda alienating the more casual fan who just tuned in, by trying to please the internet crowd.  Who knows...

Oh, okay - gotcha.
I was still focused on the earlier days of the “original” dirt sheet.

Yeah, Nash was notorious for that kind of stuff.
IMO - he may have been a little too heavyhanded with it at times.
Despite that, I don’t think Nash was as bad a booker as many “experts” claim.
Nobody’s perfect.
I think he simply encountered the same types of problems and criticisms of most bookers who are also on the active roster.

I always thought that (Heyman‘s) ECW catered the most to (s)marks.
They would shoot on backstage/real life stuff all the time.
ECW probably had the most industry-educated fans in the business, and the format of their shows was perfectly suited to their audience demographic.

[Montague]

Sometimes they will also leak out false information just to throw a knuckle ball at us fans who surf the net.

Oh nowadays, definitely.

But, Meltzer was pretty bang on back in the beginning days of his newsletter.
I don’t know who his sources were, but back then, he had a solid reputation.
A good review from Dave would get you noticed and could even help your career.

Now, everybody’s an “insider.”
I don’t necessarily know that Meltzer’s reputation has faltered, or if maybe the business & atmosphere has changed, but…
A few years ago, a friend of mine got some praise in Dave’s newsletter.
Unfortunately, it didn’t do jack-shit for him.