Dorian said "Ronnie would probably win, I don't know"

[Mr. Magoo]

Good post, well spoken with sound logic.

ND can't comprehend things like that 

Thanks, but seeing how this thread is going, it seems that nobody understood what i was saying

[NarcissisticDeity]

Thanks, but seeing how this thread is going, it seems that nobody understood what i was saying

No we did the criteria is useless and there are no facts just opinions

[Shockwave]

Thanks, but seeing how this thread is going, it seems that nobody understood what i was saying

No we understand your going by your opinion, but there IS a set judging criteria, but yes I understand what you're saying that its up to the judges opinion based on how they interpret the criteria, correct?

[Mr. Magoo]

No we understand your going by your opinion, but there IS a set judging criteria, but yes I understand what you're saying that its up to the judges opinion based on how they interpret the criteria, correct?

The "judging criteria" u claim that exists, is just another persons opinion that you, as either a bodybuilding fan or as a judge at a contest, have adopted as your own. But yes you're right and ND understood right too.This whole Dorian vs Ronnie thing is not a "the facts prove your (in this case Hulkster's) opinion wrong" issue. It's not something you can prove. It's just opinion vs. opinion. It's like trying to convince a guy that big boobs on a girl is attractive when that guy likes smaller boobs, one isnt right and the other wrong, it's just two different opinions.

But you (ND particularly) are the one that's wasted many years of your life trying to prove your opinion as fact

[NarcissisticDeity]

The "judging criteria" u claim that exists, is just another persons opinion that you, as either a bodybuilding fan or as a judge at a contest, have adopted as your own. But yes you're right and ND understood right too.This whole Dorian vs Ronnie thing is not a "the facts prove your (in this case Hulkster's) opinion wrong" issue. It's not something you can prove. It's just opinion vs. opinion. It's like trying to convince a guy that big boobs on a girl is attractive when that guy likes smaller boobs, one isnt right and the other wrong, it's just two different opinions.

But you (ND particularly) are the one that's wasted many years of your life trying to prove your opinion as fact

I have NO desire to sway anyone's opinion , just inform theirs is WRONG based on how contests are judged. I've said many times on the subject of who you think is better there is NO right or wrong because it's subjective and based on preferences , but when pushed comes to shove and these guys do face each other there is a right & wrong and that's what I go by

and how have I wasted my life posting on a message board? I enjoy the topic and don't really follow any other sports so discussing this is like discussing baseball or football it's a forum

[Shockwave]

The "judging criteria" u claim that exists, is just another persons opinion that you, as either a bodybuilding fan or as a judge at a contest, have adopted as your own. But yes you're right and ND understood right too.This whole Dorian vs Ronnie thing is not a "the facts prove your (in this case Hulkster's) opinion wrong" issue. It's not something you can prove. It's just opinion vs. opinion. It's like trying to convince a guy that big boobs on a girl is attractive when that guy likes smaller boobs, one isnt right and the other wrong, it's just two different opinions.

But you (ND particularly) are the one that's wasted many years of your life trying to prove your opinion as fact

The problem is, is that criteria was set into place by the people in power to set some sort of standard as to how bodybuilding is judged. So those peoples opinions have BECOME right and wrong, because thats how contests are judged. Yes?

[NarcissisticDeity]

The problem is, is that criteria was set into place by the people in power to set some sort of standard as to how bodybuilding is judged. So those peoples opinions have BECOME right and wrong, because thats how contests are judged. Yes?

Like I said it's only an opinion and NOT a fact that Dorian's calves insert lower than Ronnie's and they have the classic diamond shape and have more detail & separation and are in proportion better when directly compared to Ronnie , that's just an opinion it's NOT a fact 

give me a fucking break , there is a set of criterion it's how everyone is judged on spare me this doesn't apply and no one is right or wrong.

[Shockwave]

The other thing is Magoo, its not a matter of personal opinion, the question was, could Dorian beat this, as in could he win in a contest, and we are arguing based on the criteria set into place by the IFBB to judge a physique and decide which is going to win the contest. It may not be people personal favorite, true, but it is what contests are judged by.

[NarcissisticDeity]

The other thing is Magoo, its not a matter of personal opinion, the question was, could Dorian beat this, as in could he win in a contest, and we are arguing based on the criteria set into place by the IFBB to judge a physique and decide which is going to win the contest. It may not be people personal favorite, true, but it is what contests are judged by.

the ' judging criteria ' that you claim exists  doesn't apply man , sound like Victor Richards who didn't want to be judged by the rules set forth

[Mr. Magoo]

The problem is, is that criteria was set into place by the people in power to set some sort of standard as to how bodybuilding is judged. So those peoples opinions have BECOME right and wrong, because thats how contests are judged. Yes?

Because a lot of people believe it and follow it doesnt make it true. It has become a majority opinion, but it still doesn't make it "right" and other ways "wrong". I think i said something like that earlier to ND about how if a lot of people think something doesnt mean its true. Because a lot of people say "this is how abs are suppose to look on stage and this is why dorians abs are therefore better than ronnies", doesn't mean that ronnie had "wrong" abs.

And of course this is assuming (which we all know to be false) that each judge at a contest follows precisely whatever common criteria in how to judge. There are preferences in every contest and it is impossible for a contest to be judged based on predetermined criteria and not preference (sometimes the two match, sometimes they dont). This is why guessing at who will win in a contest between Ronnie and Dorian is a stupid argument. We, whoever tries predict the outcome, are guessing at what somebody else's preference would be in a given situation, and we can't know that.

What i'm trying to say is that the whole Dorian vs Ronnie thing is stupid and a huge huge waste of time.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Because a lot of people believe it and follow it doesnt make it true. It has become a majority opinion, but it still doesn't make it "right" and other ways "wrong". I think i said something like that earlier to ND about how if a lot of people think something doesnt mean its true. Because a lot of people say "this is how abs are suppose to look on stage and this is why dorians abs are therefore better than ronnies", doesn't mean that ronnie had "wrong" abs.

And of course this is assuming (which we all know to be false) that each judge at a contest follows precisely whatever common criteria in how to judge. There are preferences in every contest and it is impossible for a contest to be judged based on predetermined criteria and not preference (sometimes the two match, sometimes they dont). This is why guessing at who will win in a contest between Ronnie and Dorian is a stupid argument. We, whoever tries predict the outcome, are guessing at what somebody else's preference would be in a given situation, and we can't know that.

What i'm trying to say is that the whole Dorian vs Ronnie thing is stupid and a huge huge waste of time.

spoken like a person who doesn't know how contests are judged.

[Mr. Magoo]

Like I said it's only an opinion and NOT a fact that Dorian's calves insert lower than Ronnie's and they have the classic diamond shape and have more detail & separation and are in proportion better when directly compared to Ronnie , that's just an opinion it's NOT a fact 

give me a fucking break , there is a set of criterion it's how everyone is judged on spare me this doesn't apply and no one is right or wrong.

It is a fact that Dorian's calves insert lower, it is a fact that they have diamond shape. Is that how a calf should look? The answer to that is an opinion. It could be said that high calves are how a bodybuilder should look. Like Sergio Oliva had high lats, is that better or worse than say Franco who had low lats? Thats an opinion. Opinions change. So it shouldn't be argued which is better.

[Shockwave]

Because a lot of people believe it and follow it doesnt make it true. It has become a majority opinion, but it still doesn't make it "right" and other ways "wrong". I think i said something like that earlier to ND about how if a lot of people think something doesnt mean its true. Because a lot of people say "this is how abs are suppose to look on stage and this is why dorians abs are therefore better than ronnies", doesn't mean that ronnie had "wrong" abs.

And of course this is assuming (which we all know to be false) that each judge at a contest follows precisely whatever common criteria in how to judge. There are preferences in every contest and it is impossible for a contest to be judged based on predetermined criteria and not preference (sometimes the two match, sometimes they dont). This is why guessing at who will win in a contest between Ronnie and Dorian is a stupid argument. We, whoever tries predict the outcome, are guessing at what somebody else's preference would be in a given situation, and we can't know that.

What i'm trying to say is that the whole Dorian vs Ronnie thing is stupid and a huge huge waste of time.

Fair nough. All Im going by, is that when trying to decide which person is going to win a contest, that youre going to go by the standards of judging set into place, because that is (supposed to be) how the contest is decided. Since the judges are supposed to follow those criteria, it would make more sense to go by those standards than by personal preference, correct?

[NarcissisticDeity]

It is a fact that Dorian's calves insert lower, it is a fact that they have diamond shape. Is that how a calf should look? The answer to that is an opinion. It could be said that high calves are how a bodybuilder should look. Like Sergio Oliva had high lats, is that better or worse than say Franco who had low lats? Thats an opinion. Opinions change. So it shouldn't be argued which is better.

It could be said that's how it's supposed to be but it doesn't , I go by what's set forth not some imaginary criteria should be. like I said I deal in reality

[Mr. Magoo]

Fair nough. All Im going by, is that when trying to decide which person is going to win a contest, that youre going to go by the standards of judging set into place, because that is (supposed) how the contest is decided. Since the judges are supposed to follow those criteria, it would make more sense to go by those standards than by personal preference, correct?

I think I get what you're saying, correct me if i misunderstood. But what I'm saying is that it is pointless to decide (i prefer the term "guess") which person is going to win a contest. In an ideal world, yes you could go through a checkoff list and see who comes out on top and every judge would agree with you. But the truth is that preferences do reign supreme and the judge sitting at that table on that given day might have a different opinion than the person who wrote down the rules in the IFBB handbook about how "granite skin" or whatever a guy should have. This throws the whole idea of a "set formula" out the window, doesnt it?

The closest example I can think of is like judging a beauty contest. See how difficult that would be? Opinions clash.

EDIT: I just went back and looked at the first page of this thread to remind myself what it was about. The correct answer to this thread is "we dont know".

[Shockwave]

I think I get what you're saying, correct me if i misunderstood. But what I'm saying is that it is pointless to decide (i prefer the term "guess") which person is going to win a contest. In an ideal world, yes you could go through a checkoff list and see who comes out on top and every judge would agree with you. But the truth is that preferences do reign supreme and the judge sitting at that table on that given day might have a different opinion than the person who wrote down the rules in the IFBB handbook about how "granite skin" or whatever a guy should have. This throws the whole idea of a "set formula" out the window, doesnt it?

The closest example I can think of is like judging a beauty contest. See how difficult that would be? Opinions clash.

You are correct. However, it has been shown that Hulkster will not leave the subject alone, any thread in which Dorians name comes up he goes and brings this argument up, and since I am easily trolled, I always wind up debatingg, and I always try and go by the standards that have been set forth because there is alway people that post pics and say "see? this is proof ronnie would win" (see Nirvana, Hulkster) When they cant either figure out that
A. There is standards set into place for judging and
B. That their proof is actually their opinion.

And I hate when people try and pass their opinion off as proof, or when it flies in the face of the standards and rules set into place.

Bottom line . I am easily trolled.

[StuartR]

Yup posting pics of Dorian not even flexing , yup Hulkster is proving he's scared of Yates , and his two favorite poses the standing relaxed and most muscular HAHAHAHAHA

how's Ronnie's shape in the calf department? hows his shape in the midsection? hows his shape in the forearms? how the shape of his side triceps pose? hows the shape of his ab-thigh? or front latspread?

Hulkster = blanket statements and no proof oh I mean shots of Ronnie flexed and Dorian not hahahahaha

let me try that , " Hey look everyone Dorian blows Ronnie out of the water in this pose. " retard

its funny because in the comparison there ronnie is still destroying dorian on arms

[Shockwave]

its funny because in the comparison there ronnie is still destroying dorian on arms

Good thing its not an Arms contest, isnt it stud? 

[Hulkster]

its funny because in the comparison there ronnie is still destroying dorian on arms

now you see the level of delusion and stupidity that the nuthuggers display.

they literally know nothing about the sport.

[Shockwave]

now you see the level of delusion and stupidity that the nuthuggers display.

they literally know nothing about the sport.

Hahaha youre saying that because in the last 2 pages it has been clearly shown that you dont know shit,
The only thing you know is "ronnie-building".
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!

[Palpatine Q]

Good thing its not an Arms contest, isnt it stud? 

Ain't a Calves contest either 

[NarcissisticDeity]

its funny because in the comparison there ronnie is still destroying dorian on arms

And that's all that's judged in a contest of fanboys

[NarcissisticDeity]

Ain't a Calves contest either 

Nope and it's not a shape contest either , it's a muscular bulk , balanced development , density & dryness and posing & presentation contest like I've stated hundreds of times and take a wild guess who meets ALL of that criteria better? 

[Hulkster]

it sure isn't a calf contest.

its the only bodypart or physical attribute (along with abs) that dorian actually has an advantage in.

its a total massacre of dorian by ronnie time after time:

[Hulkster]

And that's all that's judged in a contest of fanboys

you wish that was all that was judged: