Author Topic: Book tip of the month  (Read 8739 times)

MORTALCOIL

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Re: Book tip of the month
« Reply #50 on: July 29, 2010, 10:15:56 AM »
i think leibniz and descartes are both easy to read. examples of others? spinoza, as you already mentioned. and of course mosty pre-descartes philosphers going back to plato and aristotle including st augustine and all the theologians.  they are all pretty easy and direct, save a few.

kant is one guy who can be tough to read. i think alot of times philosophers try so hard to be accurate with their words, and they end up making their work way to drawn out and complex. they intertwine their sentences and paragraphs made up of rarely heard words, and connect a bunch of abstract ideas together hoping that people will be able to make sense of it all. of course, most of the time, what they are writing truly does make sense after you decipher through all the bullshit. its a problem with being concise, and most philosophers fail to see that point.

 if you cant word soemthing so that a regular person can understand and retain it, then do you really even fully understand it yourself?


im not really familiar at all with nietzsche, i was just pointing out that his comments about philosophers really just giving biographies disguised as their philosophy was quite freudian thing to say. and while there is some truth to the psycho analytic view point, its more often way over done and over exaggerated to the point where theres really no connection between the two events that they are trying to relate. psycho analytic is the over-thinkers view point

St-Augustine as most of the Church Fathers have a very specific use of words. But, true, it does not get as twisted as Heidegger for example who's the blueprint for wordplay and neologism. Plato, Aristotle are very conceptual in fact but they had a very literary style which came form the pre-hellenistic greek culture (go back to Heraclites, Anaximandre,....) where the art of philosophy and poetry was one. Nietzsche: too many people have claimed understanding him and used random quotes, in fact just reducing his philosophy to something very narrow minded. But now, philosophers hold him as a highly important one. He brought back that the truth is an ever evolving notion and that perspective is everything.

tbombz

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Re: Book tip of the month
« Reply #51 on: July 29, 2010, 10:24:33 AM »
St-Augustine as most of the Church Fathers have a very specific use of words. But, true, it does not get as twisted as Heidegger for example who's the blueprint for wordplay and neologism. Plato, Aristotle are very conceptual in fact but they had a very literary style which came form the pre-hellenistic greek culture (go back to Heraclites, Anaximandre,....) where the art of philosophy and poetry was one. Nietzsche: too many people have claimed understanding him and used random quotes, in fact just reducing his philosophy to something very narrow minded. But now, philosophers hold him as a highly important one. He brought back that the truth is an ever evolving notion and that perspective is everything.

truth is ever evolving? hmm..    see, im going to have to disagree, at least in part.

the truth is the truth. what is true can not be false and what is false can not be true. that is by definition, and anything to the contrary would be changing the definition of those terms.

see, modern philosophers like to disregard metaphysics and any system with reference to the infinite. they see truth as unreachable....   bbecause of problems with induction and causation pointed out by david hume.

but.. a think leibnez actually did build a workable system without gaps. causation is real.. infinite exists as God the creator, and a-priori knowledge is truly a fact..


kant and william james are two people who can bridge the gap between the rationalist and empiricsts

Stark

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Re: Book tip of the month
« Reply #52 on: July 29, 2010, 10:28:14 AM »
truth is ever evolving? hmm..    see, im going to have to disagree, at least in part.

the truth is the truth. what is true can not be false and what is false can not be true. that is by definition, and anything to the contrary would be changing the definition of those terms.

see, modern philosophers like to disregard metaphysics and any system with reference to the infinite. they see truth as unreachable....   bbecause of problems with induction and causation pointed out by david hume.

but.. a think leibnez actually did build a workable system without gaps. causation is real.. infinite exists as God the creator, and a-priori knowledge is truly a fact..


kant and william james are two people who can bridge the gap between the rationalist and empiricsts

I am way not as intelligent and book smart as you guys, but I disagree with you and give this a shot - even if I feel slightly intimidated :D

truth is all about what you know...

A while back people believed that the truth is that the earth is flat and we all know now how much truth was in that.

But maybe I completely misunderstood you all - possibly.

The Showstoppa

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Re: Book tip of the month
« Reply #53 on: July 29, 2010, 10:30:15 AM »
I am way not as intelligent and book smart as you guys, but I disagree with you and give this a shot - even if I feel slightly intimidated :D

truth is all about what you know...

A while back people believed that the truth is that the earth is flat and we all know now how much truth was in that.

But maybe I completely misunderstood you all - possibly.

But the thing is those people only thought they knew the "truth."  The actual truth was something else.  People thinking something, doesn't make it a truth.

MORTALCOIL

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Re: Book tip of the month
« Reply #54 on: July 29, 2010, 10:32:25 AM »
truth is ever evolving? hmm..    see, im going to have to disagree, at least in part.

the truth is the truth. what is true can not be false and what is false can not be true. that is by definition, and anything to the contrary would be changing the definition of those terms.

see, modern philosophers like to disregard metaphysics and any system with reference to the infinite. they see truth as unreachable....   bbecause of problems with induction and causation pointed out by david hume.

but.. a think leibnez actually did build a workable system without gaps. causation is real.. infinite exists as God the creator, and a-priori knowledge is truly a fact..


kant and william james are two people who can bridge the gap between the rationalist and empiricsts

Actually Kant at the end of his life wrote a little thing about the impossibility of a real theodicy. Admitted his own system was flawed. Brilliant though as Schopenahuer, Nietzsche and Hegel all built their own philosophy on his. Hume is a spectical philosopher: actually one of the only anglo-saxon philosophers worth something with Emerson. Never dug into William James. I'm not a man of faith and metaphysics are actually a matter of faith.

tbombz

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Re: Book tip of the month
« Reply #55 on: July 29, 2010, 10:34:16 AM »
good answer showstoppa.  

the truth is the truth, by definiton.  

but what is true now can become false later. for example.. joe is winning the race. truth. but 2 minutes later larry passed joe. so now joe is not winning the race, and it would no longer be true if you were to say he was.

in referance to philosophy, the "truth" is in referance to the nature of reality, and the purpouse for it as well.

The Showstoppa

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Re: Book tip of the month
« Reply #56 on: July 29, 2010, 10:34:31 AM »
Actually Kant at the end of his life wrote a little thing about the impossibility of a real theodicy. Admitted his own system was flawed. Brilliant though as Schopenahuer, Nietzsche and Hegel all built their own philosophy on his. Hume is a spectical philosopher: actually one of the only anglo-saxon philosophers worth something with Emerson. Never dug into William James. I'm not a man of faith and metaphysics are actually a matter of faith.

Nietzsche = overrated

Stark

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Re: Book tip of the month
« Reply #57 on: July 29, 2010, 10:34:42 AM »
But the thing is those people only thought they knew the "truth."  The actual truth was something else.  People thinking something, doesn't make it a truth.

Okay I see were you are going with this - thats quite nice and I haven't spend enough time thinking about it.
But I will later on.

So okay so right and wrong has to be than time based.

Butterbean

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Re: Book tip of the month
« Reply #58 on: July 29, 2010, 10:34:47 AM »
I just read Catch-22.  It's my goal to read the 100 greatest english and non english novels of all time.  I'm about 3 books in!  ;D

Currently reading "Chariots of the Gods" about the world being populated by aliens thousands of years ago.  my wife got it for me as a joke because that fucking "ancient aliens" show is on the history channel all the time and they keep mentioning the book.  but i don't like having a book on a bookshelf i haven't read, so i'm leafing through it as i'm dropping juicy steamers in the shitter.

lol!
R

tbombz

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Re: Book tip of the month
« Reply #59 on: July 29, 2010, 10:39:06 AM »
Actually Kant at the end of his life wrote a little thing about the impossibility of a real theodicy. Admitted his own system was flawed. Brilliant though as Schopenahuer, Nietzsche and Hegel all built their own philosophy on his. Hume is a spectical philosopher: actually one of the only anglo-saxon philosophers worth something with Emerson. Never dug into William James. I'm not a man of faith and metaphysics are actually a matter of faith.

kants system unworkable? ill read that later today if i have time, im off to surgery in 15 minutes for my knee.

william james. you should read him! brilliant psychologist/philospher. an american pragmatist.

your not a man of faith? well, let me make it easy for you. are you alive? what caused that to happen? there is a definite casual chain leading up to your life. where did that casual chain begin?  if it exists, there must have been a beginning, for if there was no first cause, there would never have been an effect.  :)  :P

MORTALCOIL

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Re: Book tip of the month
« Reply #60 on: July 29, 2010, 11:02:21 AM »
kants system unworkable? ill read that later today if i have time, im off to surgery in 15 minutes for my knee.

william james. you should read him! brilliant psychologist/philospher. an american pragmatist.

your not a man of faith? well, let me make it easy for you. are you alive? what caused that to happen? there is a definite casual chain leading up to your life. where did that casual chain begin?  if it exists, there must have been a beginning, for if there was no first cause, there would never have been an effect.  :)  :P

Casual chain? Not for me. Too dialectical. I go with a more empirical approach. Back to Spinoza maybe.

MORTALCOIL

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Re: Book tip of the month
« Reply #61 on: July 29, 2010, 11:04:48 AM »
Nietzsche = overrated

Thought so also. The read it again. Got to see past the whole "intense philosopher with a bad disease" and the "new prophet" cliché.

The Showstoppa

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Re: Book tip of the month
« Reply #62 on: July 29, 2010, 11:12:33 AM »
Thought so also. The read it again. Got to see past the whole "intense philosopher with a bad disease" and the "new prophet" cliché.

It has been awhile since i read him and I think he had some great insight into what drives people.  He just gets referred to so often and I there are a number of men who should be mentioned well before he is.

MORTALCOIL

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Re: Book tip of the month
« Reply #63 on: July 29, 2010, 11:14:50 AM »
It has been awhile since i read him and I think he had some great insight into what drives people.  He just gets referred to so often and I there are a number of men who should be mentioned well before he is.

Yes but he said it himself. He did put himself as coming from a certain trend that should be known before.

benchmstr

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Re: Book tip of the month
« Reply #64 on: July 29, 2010, 11:21:33 AM »
books piss me off...

bench

Butterbean

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Re: Book tip of the month
« Reply #65 on: July 29, 2010, 01:00:39 PM »
R

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: Book tip of the month
« Reply #66 on: July 29, 2010, 01:05:31 PM »
done that

Also Arnold's book about his life is worth reading as well

What's it called?  I'll order it...
S

The Showstoppa

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Re: Book tip of the month
« Reply #67 on: July 29, 2010, 01:43:33 PM »
books piss me off...

bench

bench, do you keep coloring outside the lines?  ;D

benchmstr

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Re: Book tip of the month
« Reply #68 on: July 29, 2010, 01:44:38 PM »
bench, do you keep coloring outside the lines?  ;D
yes.....

bench

The Showstoppa

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Re: Book tip of the month
« Reply #69 on: July 29, 2010, 01:47:19 PM »
yes.....

bench

i bet it's your giant sized paws!

ToxicAvenger

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Re: Book tip of the month
« Reply #70 on: July 29, 2010, 01:58:59 PM »
 >:(

carpe` vaginum!

tbombz

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Re: Book tip of the month
« Reply #71 on: July 30, 2010, 08:52:16 PM »
Casual chain? Not for me. Too dialectical. I go with a more empirical approach. Back to Spinoza maybe.
spinoza. hes good. the 'perfect' pantheist imo. i dont agree with him though. did you know he changed his name, he was originally benedictus, then baruch.


the causal chain argument, or otherwise known as a variation of the cosmological argument, is definitely very dialectic. but so is every argument possible. in order for an argument to be communicated, it must be put into language (dialect).  ;)



SF1900

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Re: Book tip of the month
« Reply #72 on: July 30, 2010, 08:57:02 PM »
kants system unworkable? ill read that later today if i have time, im off to surgery in 15 minutes for my knee.

william james. you should read him! brilliant psychologist/philospher. an american pragmatist.

your not a man of faith? well, let me make it easy for you. are you alive? what caused that to happen? there is a definite casual chain leading up to your life. where did that casual chain begin?  if it exists, there must have been a beginning, for if there was no first cause, there would never have been an effect.  :)  :P

People claim that William James was the last original thinker. Since him, most other theories have built upon the works of others. Will James was pretty original in his thoughts and ideas.
X

FitnessFrenzy

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Re: Book tip of the month
« Reply #73 on: July 31, 2010, 01:54:20 AM »
I am interested in psychology and sociology but never received an eduction which would have lead me to read these books when
I was younger.

This is a great book on basic sociology:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Essentials-Sociology-Down---Earth-Approach/dp/0205676081/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1280566439&sr=1-2

Purple Aki

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Re: Book tip of the month
« Reply #74 on: July 31, 2010, 07:50:55 AM »
wow some background - I cannot "compete" with that, I am a qualified zookeeper :D - serious

What animals did you look after, Stark? If I ever come into lots of money, I'd volunteer at a zoo or wildlife park.

Have you read Day By Day Armageddon by J. L. Bourne yet? It's not a bad read, but a bit short and not as good as the reviews on amazon would have you believe.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Day-Armageddon-J-L-Bourne/dp/1849831580/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b