Author Topic: Panel Clears Way For Mosque Near Ground Zero  (Read 5519 times)

SAMSON123

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Panel Clears Way For Mosque Near Ground Zero
« on: August 03, 2010, 03:51:24 PM »
Well the path has been made clear for the rising of the Mosque. All you haters can get ready to start saying your Allah Akbar when you are in the New York ground zero area... BTW I put a picture of where the mosque will be located at the bottom of the page..while it looks close it is actually a good ways away. If you are on the WTC site you would NOT be able to see it or even know it is there unless someone told you.

Panel clears way for mosque near Ground Zero

VIDEO LINK  http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid42806360001?bctid=390526096001

   
By Michael Nagle,


Workers unload window frames across the street from 45-47 Park Place on Tuesday in New York City.

  
By Martha T. Moore, USA TODAY
NEW YORK — Amid applause and cries of "Shame!" a New York City panel cleared the way Tuesday morning for the construction of an Islamic cultural center and mosque two blocks from the site of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

The city Landmarks Preservation Commission, in a 9-0 vote, denied protected status to the building located in Lower Manhattan, saying the 1850s commercial building did not have enough historic or architectural merit.

That means it can be demolished for the cultural center, which has drawn opposition from politicians including former Alaska governor and vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin and former congressman Rick Lazio, a Republican running for New York governor.

New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg has spoken in support of the center, saying religious freedom is at stake.

"It's a 9/11 victory mosque," said Linda Rivera, a New York resident who held up a sign during the vote reading "Don't Glorify Murders of 3,000." She was among those who criticize the location of the proposed center, which is on a commercial street two blocks north of the northern edge of the World Trade Center site.

The 152-year-old building once housed a Burlington Coat Factory. Plans from the developer, Park51, call for a gym, auditorium, exhibition and educational space, and a mosque.

Megan Putney of the Muslim Consultative Network, a community development group, said she hoped the community center would be "a way for different faiths and cultures to become more familiar with each other and understand that those who committed those heinous acts on 9/11 were not Muslims."

Some national and New York politicians and the Anti-Defamation League have come out in recent weeks against plans for the mosque, saying it disrespects the memory of Sept. 11 victims.

Supporters of landmark status, including some Sept. 11 family members, had argued that the building warranted the status because it was struck by airplane debris during the attacks.

But Commissioner Christopher Moore noted that the debris hit a number of buildings.

"One cannot designate hundreds of buildings on that criteria alone," Moore said. "We do not landmark the sky."

The mosque would be part of an Islamic community center to be operated by a group called the Cordoba Initiative, which says the center will be a space for moderate Muslim voices.

Oz Sultan, the program coordinator for the proposed Islamic center, said last week that the building has been changed too much over the years to qualify as a landmark.

"I think a lot of the negativity we're getting is coming from people who are politically grandstanding," Sultan said. "We're completely open and transparent."

Sharif El-Gamal, a real estate developer involved in the project, has said the center could resemble the 92nd Street Y, a major Jewish cultural center in New York that also houses a synagogue.

"Where do you draw the line?" asked Ralph Seliger, a retired city employee who was among a group from J Street, a progressive Jewish group, that came to support the Islamic center. "In no way is this in tended to desecrate the memory of those who died there."

The Rev. Robert Chase, founding director of an interfaith group called Intersections, supported the project and called it "a really positive example of how we can move forward from 9/11."

But the Anti-Defamation League's national director, Abraham Foxman, said Khan's proposals fail to address the crux of opponents' criticism that erecting the mosque near ground zero is insensitive to 9/11 victims' families.

The Jewish organization came out against the mosque last week, saying "some legitimate questions have been raised" about the Cordoba Initiative's funding and possible ties with "groups whose ideologies stand in contradiction to our shared values."

Lazio attended Tuesday's hearing, saying he still had questions about funding sources and saying the national debate over the mosque had nothing to do with religion.

He said: "It's about this particular mosque called the Cordoba Mosque. It's about being at Ground Zero. It's about being spearheaded by an imam who has associated himself with radical Islamic causes and has made comments that should chill every single American, frankly."

The imam, Faisel Abdul Rauf, had refused to call the radical Palestinian group Hamas a terrorist organization, Lazio has said. Rauf also had said in a "60 Minutes" interview televised shortly after 9/11 that "United States policies were an accessory to the crime that happened."



Contributing: the Associated Press
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drkaje

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Re: Panel Clears Way For Mosque Near Ground Zero
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2010, 03:55:23 PM »
I hope someone flies a plane into it.

SAMSON123

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Re: Panel Clears Way For Mosque Near Ground Zero
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2010, 04:02:18 PM »
I hope someone flies a plane into it.

Who? Someone like Timothy McVeigh or Terry Nicholls?
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drkaje

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Re: Panel Clears Way For Mosque Near Ground Zero
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2010, 04:20:26 PM »
Who? Someone like Timothy McVeigh or Terry Nicholls?

Doesn't matter who.

240 is Back

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Re: Panel Clears Way For Mosque Near Ground Zero
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2010, 04:22:19 PM »
this is a weird issue.

the people who are saying govt should stay the hell out of our religion and other business - are the same people saying the govt should put a limit as to how many blocks from ground zero a certain religious group should be able to put up a church of their choosing.

Either you love the constitution, or you don't.  You defend it, even when you disagree with those employing it vehemently.  You support the right of any religious group - catholic, muslim, protestant, or satanic, or whatever - to put up a church anywhere they please.


For those who say the govt has too much power and should stay out of my life - but should be able to pick and choose which churches can go where based upon the religious beliefs of the founders - wow...

SAMSON123

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Re: Panel Clears Way For Mosque Near Ground Zero
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2010, 04:30:17 PM »
this is a weird issue.

the people who are saying govt should stay the hell out of our religion and other business - are the same people saying the govt should put a limit as to how many blocks from ground zero a certain religious group should be able to put up a church of their choosing.

Either you love the constitution, or you don't.  You defend it, even when you disagree with those employing it vehemently.  You support the right of any religious group - catholic, muslim, protestant, or satanic, or whatever - to put up a church anywhere they please.


For those who say the govt has too much power and should stay out of my life - but should be able to pick and choose which churches can go where based upon the religious beliefs of the founders - wow...


Dummies are everywhere...sadly

Maybe they misunderstood the part of their constitution that said SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE... Either you want the government involved in your affairs or you don't...there is no in-between
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Re: Panel Clears Way For Mosque Near Ground Zero
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2010, 04:42:01 PM »
A church can be built wherever the community says it can be built.  That's why you don't typically see a church next to a strip club.  The community decides zoning issues.  Has nothing to do with separation of church and state.   ::)

SAMSON123

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Re: Panel Clears Way For Mosque Near Ground Zero
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2010, 05:00:14 PM »
A church can be built wherever the community says it can be built.  That's why you don't typically see a church next to a strip club.  The community decides zoning issues.  Has nothing to do with separation of church and state.   ::)

A community has no say in where a church can and can not be built. There may be some landmark or height regulations that all construction must abide by in a community, but the people can NOT stop the construction of a church...or any building for that matter. My church and state comment deals with those who were trying to make the matter political and get the mayor and/or governor of New York to stop the construction. Some even sank to trying to landmark the building to stop what is no more than religious discrimination.
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Dos Equis

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Re: Panel Clears Way For Mosque Near Ground Zero
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2010, 05:08:00 PM »
A community has no say in where a church can and can not be built. There may be some landmark or height regulations that all construction must abide by in a community, but the people can NOT stop the construction of a church...or any building for that matter. My church and state comment deals with those who were trying to make the matter political and get the mayor and/or governor of New York to stop the construction. Some even sank to trying to landmark the building to stop what is no more than religious discrimination.

Wrong.  The community speaks through it's city council, which decides zoning issues.  Zoning dictates what can be built/operated in certain parts of the city.  

  

Fury

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Re: Panel Clears Way For Mosque Near Ground Zero
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2010, 05:14:19 PM »
A community has no say in where a church can and can not be built. There may be some landmark or height regulations that all construction must abide by in a community, but the people can NOT stop the construction of a church...or any building for that matter. My church and state comment deals with those who were trying to make the matter political and get the mayor and/or governor of New York to stop the construction. Some even sank to trying to landmark the building to stop what is no more than religious discrimination.

Once again you prove that you have ZERO clue as to what you're talking about. Stick to selling snake oil, idiot.

Skip8282

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Re: Panel Clears Way For Mosque Near Ground Zero
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2010, 05:23:41 PM »
Dummies are everywhere...sadly

Maybe they misunderstood the part of their constitution that said SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE... Either you want the government involved in your affairs or you don't...there is no in-between



No in-between?

This is not an all or nothing issue.  There are varying degrees of involvement.

BTW, if you think I'm ever going to say allah akbar - hahahaha - go fuck yourself.

drkaje

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Re: Panel Clears Way For Mosque Near Ground Zero
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2010, 05:24:49 PM »
this is a weird issue.

the people who are saying govt should stay the hell out of our religion and other business - are the same people saying the govt should put a limit as to how many blocks from ground zero a certain religious group should be able to put up a church of their choosing.

Either you love the constitution, or you don't.  You defend it, even when you disagree with those employing it vehemently.  You support the right of any religious group - catholic, muslim, protestant, or satanic, or whatever - to put up a church anywhere they please.


For those who say the govt has too much power and should stay out of my life - but should be able to pick and choose which churches can go where based upon the religious beliefs of the founders - wow...


It's common sense I'm defending, 240.

I'm against all religious fundamentalism and it's insane to allow it to be spread through bombing. A mosque built on the remains of ground zero can be interpreted by zealots as as spreading Islam by the sword. This will cause further pain but idiots are in charge and they think tolerance will serve us more than common sense.

SAMSON123

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Re: Panel Clears Way For Mosque Near Ground Zero
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2010, 06:04:32 PM »


No in-between?

This is not an all or nothing issue.  There are varying degrees of involvement.

BTW, if you think I'm ever going to say allah akbar - hahahaha - go fuck yourself.

You just said it....
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Re: Panel Clears Way For Mosque Near Ground Zero
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2010, 08:54:43 PM »
It's common sense I'm defending, 240.

I'm against all religious fundamentalism and it's insane to allow it to be spread through bombing. A mosque built on the remains of ground zero can be interpreted by zealots as as spreading Islam by the sword. This will cause further pain but idiots are in charge and they think tolerance will serve us more than common sense.

What I'm saying is - if there wasn't a rule "no religious institutions in this 10-block radius" or whatever BEFORE this muslim church signed up - then it's pretty shady (from a constitutional standpoint).

Or how does the old quote go...

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.


If Obama was trying to prevent a Christian church from setting up shop near ground zero, Palin and friends would be SCREAMMMMMING about how he has zero right to limit religious celebration by Americans - and she would be right.

24KT

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Re: Panel Clears Way For Mosque Near Ground Zero
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2010, 09:27:44 PM »
A church can be built wherever the community says it can be built.  That's why you don't typically see a church next to a strip club.  The community decides zoning issues.  Has nothing to do with separation of church and state.   ::)

You don't typically see a church next door to a strip club because churches have a hard enough time with attendance as it is. Next door to a strip club... they wouldn't stand a chance. Candie with the bright red tassles hanging from her tatas would get all the cash before the pastor could even pull out the collection plate. Church next door to a strip club = No win situation for the church, and/or possible loss of business for both sides. Neither one wants to be next door to the other.
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24KT

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Re: Panel Clears Way For Mosque Near Ground Zero
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2010, 09:31:23 PM »
this is a weird issue.

the people who are saying govt should stay the hell out of our religion and other business - are the same people saying the govt should put a limit as to how many blocks from ground zero a certain religious group should be able to put up a church of their choosing.

Either you love the constitution, or you don't.  You defend it, even when you disagree with those employing it vehemently.  You support the right of any religious group - catholic, muslim, protestant, or satanic, or whatever - to put up a church anywhere they please.


For those who say the govt has too much power and should stay out of my life - but should be able to pick and choose which churches can go where based upon the religious beliefs of the founders - wow...


There's nothing wierd about the issue at all. It's pretty straightforward.
Some people just don't like what they see, so they twist & pervert in order to suit their wishes.
They believe in the constitution, as long as it supports their wishes & agenda.
The moment their agenda is out of step with the constitution, they act as if the constitution doesn't exist, and they have the right to do, or to have the government do their dirty work. Pathetic pigs the whole lot of them.
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BayGBM

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Re: Panel Clears Way For Mosque Near Ground Zero
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2010, 09:46:49 PM »
I pride myself on my moral compass and my reason.  I respect the equality and dignity of all human beings.  I know what proponents of this mosque are trying to do, and I understand why they are trying to do it, but agitating to place this mosque at or near ground zero is inappropriate and misguided.  The timing is also unwelcome.  All these years later the US is still reeling from 9/11.  Wounds are still fresh.  War is still being waged.  Emotions are still raw.

The US is a big country.  NY is a big state.  This is not the time nor the place for this mosque.  My objection is not borne of bigotry (which I abhor) but insensitivity to the time, place, and harm of 9/11 is also unacceptable.  However well intentioned, proceeding with this mosque, at this time, is the wrong thing to do.  :(

SAMSON123

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Re: Panel Clears Way For Mosque Near Ground Zero
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2010, 10:00:25 PM »
I pride myself on my moral compass and my reason.  I respect the equality and dignity of all human beings.  I know what proponents of this mosque are trying to do, and I understand why they are trying to do it, but agitating to place this mosque at or near ground zero is inappropriate and misguided.  The timing is also unwelcome.  All these years later the US is still reeling from 9/11.  Wounds are still fresh.  War is still being waged.  Emotions are still raw.

The US is a big country.  NY is a big state.  This is not the time nor the place for this mosque.  My objection is not borne of bigotry (which I abhor) but insensitivity to the time, place, and harm of 9/11 is also unacceptable.  However well intentioned, proceeding with this mosque, at this time, is the wrong thing to do.  :(


It's bigotry, religious discrimination, malice, hate and all other NEGATIVE EMOTIONS fostered through the hysteria of the media to demonize and vilify all Arabs and Islam. You have allowed yourself to be caught up in the frenzy while ignoring the need to MOVE ON and not judge. The WTC collapse/control demolition is closing in on TEN YEARS. Exactly when are people going to grow up and get over their nonsense. When are they going to finally stop being conditioned by the media to act and react according to the medias will? I am still trying to figure out how 19 supposed Arab hijackers commandeered 4 planes, crashed them into three different buildings, crash one into the ground in Pennsylvania and yet NINE OF THE SUPPOSED HIJACKERS ARE STILL ALIVE IN THEIR RESPECTIVE COUNTRIES!!! Do you have an answer for that? And how come your american news does not report the massive lawsuits these said individuals have against america over their face, name and information being used in a slanderous and deformation manner?
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Re: Panel Clears Way For Mosque Near Ground Zero
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2010, 04:36:36 AM »
Nice rambling meltdown, Muslim Samson. Fortunately, it's completely negated by the fact that you're the most bigoted person on this forum.

Like the typical Muslim, you think you can have your cake and eat it, too. Sorry, hombre, but your religious intolerance, hatred of whites and other non-Muslims and complete lack of education render your teary-eyed opinion where you're trying to play the victim moot.

In short, shut the fuck up.  :-*

What I'm saying is - if there wasn't a rule "no religious institutions in this 10-block radius" or whatever BEFORE this muslim church signed up - then it's pretty shady (from a constitutional standpoint).

Or how does the old quote go...

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.


If Obama was trying to prevent a Christian church from setting up shop near ground zero, Palin and friends would be SCREAMMMMMING about how he has zero right to limit religious celebration by Americans - and she would be right.

There's no rush to rebuild a church that stood under the WTC yet there's an absolute frenzy among Muslims and liberals to get this mosque built. Last I checked, they hadn't even secured the $100 million for this yet they're already starting construction. I wonder why the sharia-law advocating, terrorist-supporting, hater of interfaith dialogue Imam who lies to the face of New Yorkers is rushing to get this mosque built?

BayGBM

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Re: Panel Clears Way For Mosque Near Ground Zero
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2010, 06:31:14 AM »
It's bigotry, religious discrimination, malice, hate and all other NEGATIVE EMOTIONS fostered through the hysteria of the media to demonize and vilify all Arabs and Islam. You have allowed yourself to be caught up in the frenzy while ignoring the need to MOVE ON and not judge. The WTC collapse/control demolition is closing in on TEN YEARS. Exactly when are people going to grow up and get over their nonsense. When are they going to finally stop being conditioned by the media to act and react according to the medias will? I am still trying to figure out how 19 supposed Arab hijackers commandeered 4 planes, crashed them into three different buildings, crash one into the ground in Pennsylvania and yet NINE OF THE SUPPOSED HIJACKERS ARE STILL ALIVE IN THEIR RESPECTIVE COUNTRIES!!! Do you have an answer for that? And how come your american news does not report the massive lawsuits these said individuals have against america over their face, name and information being used in a slanderous and deformation manner?

I am not motivated by bigotry, religious discrimination, malice, nor hate.  I do not need to raise my voice, engage in name calling, or denigrate entire populations to make my point.  I do not live in NYC, but I am not unmindful of those who do live there.  You should be similarly sensitive.  The citizens of NYC and the United States are entitled to some negative emotions.  Given what they endured on 9/11 ten years is not a long time.  It will take at least a generation for those emotions to subside.

As an objective observer (to the extent I can be objective) I find myself wondering where this impulse to erect a mosque here is coming from?  Was there a mosque at this location before 9/11?  Where have the worshippers been gathering for the past ten years?  Where is the money for this mosque coming from?  Other legitimate questions abound...

As I said previously, families are still shattered and the city is still recovery mode.  I am all for tolerance and reconciliation, but asking to place a mosque at this location, at this time, is hopelessly insensitive and inappropriate.  I would not allow it. >:(

Soul Crusher

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Re: Panel Clears Way For Mosque Near Ground Zero
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2010, 06:36:13 AM »
Bay - I live here and there are vacant properties everywhere across the city.  Why here and who is paying for this?

We tell porn stores, gun stores, churches, and all types of places where they can open and locate all the time, why not this one? 

This is a complete disgrace and the moooslim filth exploiting the situation are the ones showing zero tolerance, not the other way around. 

After 911 happened, were there any mass uprisings or acts of vengence by the local population.  No.   The intolerant tyrants are those insisting on this obcsenity.       

240 is Back

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Re: Panel Clears Way For Mosque Near Ground Zero
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2010, 07:11:16 AM »
33,

You know how I feel about this, or any religion.  They are all hateful businesses bent on serving their own goals.

That being said - you gotta let them build where they want.  Unless you can define how many blocks from GZ is "right".

Of course it's morally corrupt - but it's still constitutional.  Satanists might want to set up a 'church' a block from GZ.  I could care less.  Worship whatever you want.  If you break the law, have fun in Gitmo.  But as far as telling people they can worship this God a block from GZ, but not practice this other religion...

it's a DANGEROUS precedent.

So as much as we all despise what they're doing - we should respect the constitution enough to let them build.  Then use community pressure on them, of course ;)

Soul Crusher

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Re: Panel Clears Way For Mosque Near Ground Zero
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2010, 07:18:24 AM »
33,

You know how I feel about this, or any religion.  They are all hateful businesses bent on serving their own goals.

That being said - you gotta let them build where they want.  Unless you can define how many blocks from GZ is "right".

Of course it's morally corrupt - but it's still constitutional.  Satanists might want to set up a 'church' a block from GZ.  I could care less.  Worship whatever you want.  If you break the law, have fun in Gitmo.  But as far as telling people they can worship this God a block from GZ, but not practice this other religion...

it's a DANGEROUS precedent.

So as much as we all despise what they're doing - we should respect the constitution enough to let them build.  Then use community pressure on them, of course ;)


Yes, it is a dangerous precedent, top completely ignore the will of the population and taxpayers all for some radical imam with dubious ties and financing. 

I still am going to spill pigs blood all over this place at some point. 

240 is Back

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Re: Panel Clears Way For Mosque Near Ground Zero
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2010, 07:21:38 AM »

Yes, it is a dangerous precedent, top completely ignore the will of the population and taxpayers all for some radical imam with dubious ties and financing. 

I still am going to spill pigs blood all over this place at some point. 

so let's be clear here - you are OKAY with a complete violation of americans' constitutional rights because of "the will of the population"?

So let's pretend the media gets all worked up over handgun violence, and 50.1% of the population wants to ban handguns.  Should we pitch the second amendment?  After all, the "will of the population" would support banning them.

The constutition was written so that 'the will of the people" would never step on the rights of groups to speak and worship as they pleased - no matter how disgusting their message.  I'm not defending their message, by any means... but I am defending their right to speak and practice that message.

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Re: Panel Clears Way For Mosque Near Ground Zero
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2010, 07:28:25 AM »
so let's be clear here - you are OKAY with a complete violation of americans' constitutional rights because of "the will of the population"?

So let's pretend the media gets all worked up over handgun violence, and 50.1% of the population wants to ban handguns.  Should we pitch the second amendment?  After all, the "will of the population" would support banning them.

The constutition was written so that 'the will of the people" would never step on the rights of groups to speak and worship as they pleased - no matter how disgusting their message.  I'm not defending their message, by any means... but I am defending their right to speak and practice that message.


Hey moron - this has nothing to do with the constitution.  no one is telling them they cant build a mosque, amongst the hundreds of others already in NYC. 

The same bogus arguments were made in the 1990's when Rudy dealt with the porn businesses.