TEST E and EQ = error?

[Redwine]

hi guys.. just seekin for some feedback.
im on Test E and EQ .. 750mg of test e and 300mg of EQ a week.. this is my 3rd week exactly.. suprisingly.. my progress is extremely slow.. id say i havent seen any progress.. its so strange as it has never been this slow for me before...
any comments?

[jon cole]

Test e is a long acting ester, EQ is even longer...

So generally result start at week 3/4 with test E and week 5/6 with EQ, that's why people generally kick start the cycle with dbol or test prop.

But if with 750 mg test E you don't feel anything, there's problem.

[Dr Loomis]

Be patient, maybe bump eq to 400. That is one of the best mixes, youll get results if gear is real.

[MuscleMcMannus]

You don't usually see results from EQ until you are well into your cycle hence why it's always best to run it for 16+ weeks.  That's where the magic happens.  Test E at 750mgs you should have felt by the second week. 

[4thAD]

With the enanthate ester dose will make no difference when you feel it. There is still a half life associated with the test. Has your libido gone up at all? Libido should be rising by now. IMO it is pointless to run EQ @ 300mg ew. EQ is a weak steroid and it needs to be dosed high to really experience real gains.

[tbombz]

even though enanthate ester, and all long esters, have half lifes ranging in the 3-6 week range (some less, some more).. that doesnt mean you will have to wait weeks for effects. the fday you inject 250mgs of test enanthate you will immidietly have over 3 times the normal amount of testosterone in your body, assuming average test levels to begin with.

enanthate releases approx 30mg's on day one, 27mgs on day 2, 25mgs on day 3.. and so on... all the way untill days 10-15, at which point the amounf released drops below 10mgs, and is no longer supraphysiological.


long story short, with real roids, you dont have to wait weeks, but days. in fact you can feel it day two.

[4thAD]

even though enanthate ester, and all long esters, have half lifes ranging in the 3-6 week range (some less, some more).. that doesnt mean you will have to wait weeks for effects. the fday you inject 250mgs of test enanthate you will immidietly have over 3 times the normal amount of testosterone in your body, assuming average test levels to begin with.

enanthate releases approx 30mg's on day one, 27mgs on day 2, 25mgs on day 3.. and so on... all the way untill days 10-15, at which point the amounf released drops below 10mgs, and is no longer supraphysiological.


long story short, with real roids, you dont have to wait weeks, but days. in fact you can feel it day two.

You may feel effects like libido increasing, but real strength gains will not be felt on day 2.

[jon cole]

even though enanthate ester, and all long esters, have half lifes ranging in the 3-6 week range (some less, some more).. that doesnt mean you will have to wait weeks for effects. the fday you inject 250mgs of test enanthate you will immidietly have over 3 times the normal amount of testosterone in your body, assuming average test levels to begin with.

enanthate releases approx 30mg's on day one, 27mgs on day 2, 25mgs on day 3.. and so on... all the way untill days 10-15, at which point the amounf released drops below 10mgs, and is no longer supraphysiological.


long story short, with real roids, you dont have to wait weeks, but days. in fact you can feel it day two.

yep tht's true, guy at gym always say to me "you won't feel test E until 3/4 week, as a little user, i can feel test E the first week, no increase in size and strenght, but more energy and better mood.

[tbombz]

You may feel effects like libido increasing, but real strength gains will not be felt on day 2.

not significant strength gains, and of course zero noticeable difference to musscle and fat (impossible in one day), but with legit gear you should be able to get a few more reps and a few more lbs. testosterone doesnt only help increase recovery, but it boosts muscular function, "fight or fligth" response, decreases cortisol.. all of these would go into effect by day 2, and will help the workout.

now am not saying day 2 of a cycle your gonna be breaking personal records. but the gear will definitely already being giving you a boost, albeit a small one.


the only reason i brought it up is if after 3 weeks your not feeling or seeing any differences, its bunk gear.

[tstmaniac]

IMO the few extra reps your talking about for being on in a short amount of time could be due to the placebo effects of just knowing your taking injections of testosterone

[tbombz]

its not due to having 3 times more test in your body than any natural male could ever have?

[tstmaniac]

I disagree with having that increase in strength after just being on for two days...but im going from my experience...ive done so many cycles that i dont get the placebo effect like i use to...when i first started cycling i would gain extra strength in all my lifts just because i knew i was on shit...i could be wrong but this is from my experience

[4thAD]

3 times more test than any natty male from one 250mg shot of test in 2 days? I don't believe it. My TRT at 200mg ew only brings me to the high end of the scale. 

[tbombz]

3 times more test than any natty male from one 250mg shot of test in 2 days? I don't believe it. My TRT at 200mg ew only brings me to the high end of the scale. 

natural testosterone production: 5-12mg per day

result of injection of 250mg testosterone enanthate

day one: 31mg released
day two 27
day three 23
day four 20
day five 18
day six 15
day seven 13
day eight 12
day nine 10
day ten 9
extends till day 28-30

[4thAD]

OK then why are my blood lvls never out of range from prescribed TRT? Explain

[tbombz]

no idea, those are just the facts. in fact most men only produce about 5-7 mg per da. 12 would be very high

[4thAD]

no idea, those are just the facts. in fact most men only produce about 5-7 mg per da. 12 would be very high

First off we all metabolize test at different rates half lives of esters are an average. Second I've been at this a few years and have never felt any strength increase in 2 days. I'm pretty familiar with my body too.

[tbombz]

First off we all metabolize test at different rates half lives of esters are an average. Second I've been at this a few years and have never felt any strength increase in 2 days. I'm pretty familiar with my body too.

  of course. and that is based on glute injection. injection into smaller muscles would be slower.

one should be able to get a little extra weight or a little extra reps just days after their first injection.

however, that wasnt the main point. its just that if you havent gotten results in 3 weeks time, then youve got bunk gear.

[MuscleMcMannus]

 of course. and that is based on glute injection. injection into smaller muscles would be slower.

one should be able to get a little extra weight or a little extra reps just days after their first injection.

however, that wasnt the main point. its just that if you havent gotten results in 3 weeks time, then youve got bunk gear.

   That is complete and utter bullshit dude.  I mean seriously man.........you say some of the stupidest shit.  MANY STEROID GURUS AND EXPERTS (Dan Duchaine being one of them) have cited it takes a FULL 48HRS before the steroid even enters the blood stream.  Steroids are ESTERIFIED aka LIPID SOLUBLE!!!!!!!!!!!  Unless someone is using suspension there is no way you're going to see noticeable amounts of strength increases "a few days" after your first injection.  Otherwise you are attributing it to the placebo effect OR YOU NEED TO CLARIFY "a few days"?  Do you mean one day, two days, three days post injection? 

But let me guess Tbombz you probably think Dan Duchaine is an idiot right?  

[tbombz]

  That is complete and utter bullshit dude.  I mean seriously man.........you say some of the stupidest shit.  MANY STEROID GURUS AND EXPERTS (Dan Duchaine being one of them) have cited it takes a FULL 48HRS before the steroid even enters the blood stream.  Steroids are ESTERIFIED aka LIPID SOLUBLE!!!!!!!!!!!  Unless someone is using suspension there is no way you're going to see noticeable amounts of strength increases "a few days" after your first injection. 

But let me guess Tbombz you probably think Dan Duchaine is an idiot right?   

  are you debating the pharmacology, that test enanthate doesnt release 30mg's on day one, 29mg day two.. ect... or are you debating strength increases within days? or both?  i dont have any problem giving up on the issue about strength increases within days. most people wouldnt believe that, nor let themselves experience it. i know that the morning after my first injection of sust my muscles felt harder, and that day in the gym i was lifting more than i had in years.  on the issues of the pharmacology of test enanthate. why dont you look it up. the steroid enters the blood stream day one, about 30mg of it, and thats a whole fuckload more than yud ever have naturally.

[MuscleMcMannus]

  are you debating the pharmacology, that test enanthate doesnt release 30mg's on day one, 29mg day two.. ect... or are you debating strength increases within days? or both?  i dont have any problem giving up on the issue about strength increases within days. most people wouldnt believe that, nor let themselves experience it. i know that the morning after my first injection of sust my muscles felt harder, and that day in the gym i was lifting more than i had in years.  on the issues of the pharmacology of test enanthate. why dont you look it up. the steroid enters the blood stream day one, about 30mg of it, and thats a whole fuckload more than yud ever have naturally.

When Im wrong I'm wrong and I will concede as such.  However, I think you need to be more detailed in your thoughts and the way you explain things bro.  Here's some evidence supporting your opinion:

The pharmacokinetics of 2 testosterone esters, testosterone enanthate and testosterone cyclohexanecarboxylate, were compared in a single blind crossover study in healthy young men. Their effects on serum and salivary levels of testosterone, as well as on the serum levels of LH, FSH and proclactin were measured after the injection of doses equivalent to 140 mg free testosterone. Both preparations yielded supraphysiological testosterone levels in serum and saliva as early as 2 h following injection, reaching peak levels 4 to 5 times above basal between 8 and 24 h. LH and FSH levels were suppressed as long as serum testosterone levels were elevated. Nine days after injecting testosterone enanthate and 7 days after giving testosterone cyclohexanecarboxylate, serum and salivary levels of testosterone had returned to basal. The longer activity of testosterone enanthate was also evidenced from more extended suppression of gonadotrophin levels. Although neither preparation is ideal because of the initial supraphysiological peaks, testosterone enanthate appears preferable for clinical use because of its slightly longer duration of action.

This is one reason why I like prop a lot better than enanthate.  Also I think one's individual metabolism plays a very intricate role in how soon one feels the effects post injection.  None the less you bring up a good point tbombz and I learned something new today.   

[MuscleMcMannus]

I think there is a lot of underdosed and shitty UG products and a vial of Test E labeled at 250 could well have half and no one would ever know.  That's why I see so many guys using upwards of 1000-1500g of test a week and their gains pale in comparison to guys on HRT using say Depo Testosterone at 600mgs a week.  Two very different products in terms of quality.  I know a lot of guys that now have scripts and are using real US pharm grade test E and seeing gains they haven't seen in years. 

[WillGrant]

I think there is a lot of underdosed and shitty UG products and a vial of Test E labeled at 250 could well have half and no one would ever know.  That's why I see so many guys using upwards of 1000-1500g of test a week and their gains pale in comparison to guys on HRT using say Depo Testosterone at 600mgs a week.  Two very different products in terms of quality.  I know a lot of guys that now have scripts and are using real US pharm grade test E and seeing gains they haven't seen in years. 

HRT @ 600mg a week ? introduce me to that Dr 

[hangclean]

By week 3 you should be noticeably harder and stronger from those products dosed that way, unless you eat next to nothing and train like shit.

[MuscleMcMannus]

HRT @ 600mg a week ? introduce me to that Dr 

What I meant was these dudes are doctor shopping and getting 1-3 scripts from several doctors.  So they can run US testosterone at that dose.