Author Topic: Failure of the Stim Bill in new Graph. Even 240 can't spin this.  (Read 1078 times)

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Please someone try to spin this gem. 


dario73

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Re: Failure of the Stim Bill in new Graph. Even 240 can't spin this.
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2010, 10:46:21 AM »
240's response: It would have been worst if the stim hadn't passed...I am surprised Obama still at 41% for job performance, that is just great considering all the bad legislation he has passed....Palin is a moron...Let me put up 30248230483208423 stupid palin threads and hide this thread....

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Re: Failure of the Stim Bill in new Graph. Even 240 can't spin this.
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2010, 10:49:37 AM »

Fooled By Stimulus: Economists Still Missing The Huge Economic Regime Change
Mike "Mish" Shedlock | Aug. 9, 2010, 12:25 PM | 885 |  4
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Bill Watkins, a California Lutheran University professor, provides a nice summary on New Geography of the failure of various stimulus efforts to do anything meaningful in the wake of a collapse by Lehman, a collapse he says is a "regime shift".

Please consider Flexible Forecasting: Looking for the Next Economic Model by Bill Watkins.

The world changed in September 2008. We call it a regime shift. It's a move from one (good) equilibrium to another (bad) equilibrium. Statistical models that worked well in the old regime don’t work in the new regime. We hustled to adjust our models, but admitted that with limited experience in the new regime, we were less confident in our forecasts.

Some economists didn’t recognize the regime shift. They went about their business using the same old models in a new world. Comments about the length of a typical recession or about how sharp declines are followed by rapid recoveries were clear signals that the speaker didn’t understand the situation.

Some economists were fooled by the stimulus. The rules of accounting cause government spending to be reflected as an increase in economic activity. Stimulus plans such as Cash for Clunkers and tax credits for home purchases moved the timing of transactions, artificially reinforcing the direct spending impacts. Similarly, bailouts and foreclosure prevention programs postponed the recognition of losses.

Many interpreted the resulting increase in last winter’s reported activity as permanent, but that could not be. We were not building anything or laying the groundwork for sustained prosperity. Instead, we were just continuing the previous decade’s consumption binge. The banks had failed, but the government had stepped in. It became the mother of all banks, borrowing from future citizens and other countries to fuel today’s consumption.

 
Fooled by Stimulus - Structural Problems Still Intact
Huge Battle Looms Over Public Pensions - Who Will (Who Should) Foot the Bill?
Sunday Funnies 2010-08-08 Earnings Potential


Today, enough time has passed that even the most slowly adapting forecasters are forced to confront the post-2008 data and the government’s failed economic efforts. As forecasters confront these facts, their forecasts are becoming increasingly gloomy. Now, forecasts of protracted malaise or even a double-dip recession are increasingly common. Why?

Because we borrowed to extend a consumption binge, and we compounded that error with omissions and perverse policy.

The stimulus’s omissions are glaring. We didn’t significantly invest in infrastructure that would improve our future growth. We failed to address the weaknesses in our education sector that fuel increasing inequality, sentence many to a life of hopelessness, and permanently constrain our economic growth. We did nothing to encourage small business’s growth; in an example of perverse policy, we are actually creating a new regulatory regime that favors large companies.

Then there were the actions that will probably restrain future economic growth. The minimum wage was raised. We had health care reform, but we didn’t address the real problem: the fact that the health care consumer pays an insignificant portion of the bill at the time of consumption. We had financial reform that failed to address the fundamental problems of too-big-to-fail, and we protected risky activities, increasing the regulatory burden and crippling the ability of small banks. We halted much of our offshore drilling.

Looking forward, there is little reason for optimism. We’re considering huge increases in our energy costs through greenhouse gas regulation. We have a massive tax increase scheduled at the end of the year.


While a double-dip recession is not the most likely outcome, we can’t reject the possibility. More likely, we face a long slow struggle to overcome ourselves and restore real prosperity. The forecasters’ consensus appears to be moving toward accepting that reality.

Massive Policy Errors

Bill Watkins discusses many of the things I have been talking about on this blog for years. Nonetheless, I thank him for a nice summary of why stimulus failed and also for recognizing that stimulus measures would fail in advance. Policy errors certainly have been rampant and very few economists saw them.

Watkins thinks economists now understand the "regime shift". More than likely, most of them don't. Instead, economists have a tendency to project current economic status forward, without understanding why. Because things have slowed down, economists became a more realistic. I doubt their understanding is much better.

If there is another round of stimulus accompanied by another uptick in the economy (the former is likely coming but probably not the latter), I have no doubt economists would think we are off to the races again and this was just another "soft patch".

In contrast, I propose we are going to flirt in and out of recession for perhaps a decade, just as Japan did. Interestingly, every time the Japanese economy rebounded slightly, economists thought "thank God, deflation is over", only to see the Japanese economy relapse.

Problems Many, Solutions Nonexistent




Regime Shift? What? When?

Lehman filed bankruptcy in September of 2008.

For comparison purposes, I started posting on the phenomenon of people Walking Away from their houses in January of 2008. Here are some Links to Walking Away articles.

What is the real regime change: People willing to walk away from their homes for the first time in history, or the bankruptcy of a single company?

That people would voluntarily walk away from their homes is without a doubt a "game changer". It turned economic theory 180 degrees. Almost no one thought that would happen.

In contrast, nothing especially important changed in September of 2008. That Lehman would file bankruptcy is at best a symptom of attitudes that had long since changed.

It's a Totally New Paradigm

Secular attitude changes like "walking away" had their roots in the busting of the housing bubble.

Flashback Saturday, March 26, 2005: It's a Totally New Paradigm



Image: Mish
 


Ron Shuffield, president of Esslinger-Wooten-Maxwell Realtors says that "South Florida is working off of a totally new economic model than any of us have ever experienced in the past." He predicts that a limited supply of land coupled with demand from baby boomers and foreigners will prolong the boom indefinitely.

"I just don't think we have what it takes to prick the bubble," said Diane C. Swonk, chief economist at Mesirow Financial in Chicago, who was an optimist during the 90's. "I don't think prices are going to fall, and I don't think they're even going to be flat."

"I look at this as a short-term investment," said Mr. Farquharson, 36, who works for a venture capital firm, "and plan to unload it as soon as things look dangerous."

Gregory J. Heym, the chief economist at Brown Harris Stevens, is not sold on the inevitability of a downturn. He bases his confidence in the market on things like continuing low mortgage rates, high Wall Street bonuses and the tax benefits of home ownership. "It is a new paradigm" he said.Here are some links to the housing bubble chart updates, all made in real time.

One of my favorite updates of that chart regards the cover of Time Magazine going "gaga" over real estate one year after the bubble burst, but before anyone important even recognized that fact.

Inquiring minds may wish to consider US vs. Japan Land Prices Pictorial Update for a discussion of Time Magazine going "gaga". They even used the word "gaga" on the cover.
Regime Change Started in 2005

The regime change that Bill Watkins mentions, actually began in 2005 with the busting of the housing bubble. It took a couple more years before economists noticed because commercial real estate kept the game going for a while longer.

Commercial real estate follows residential housing with a lag, and from 2005-2007 stores like Home Depot, Lowes, Walmart, Pizza Hut, were still in rampant expansion. That expansion provided enough jobs to mask what consumers finally started figuring out: "home prices will not rise forever".

Nonetheless, Bill Watkins is actually ahead of the game in understanding there was a regime change. In 2008 Ben Bernanke was still in denial over the housing bubble and he had amazingly optimistic ideas where the unemployment rate was headed.

Even now, Bernanke displays little public awareness of what is going on. It would be interesting to hear what he says in private at the FOMC meetings in comparison to the soundbites the Fed delivers to the public. If FOMC soundbites represent what the man really thinks, Bernanke is nearly as clueless as ever, with little understanding of what went wrong or why, what the policy errors were, and what the Fed's role in this mess was.

Attitudes are the Game Changer

Watkins missed when the regime change occurred and possibly what the regime change even is (changing social attitudes on housing, consumption, risk taking, and debt, by consumers and banks alike).

The "attitude change" was the game-changer, NOT the event (the collapse of Lehman).

Nonetheless, Watkins is light-years ahead of most economists and economic cheerleaders in understanding that we did have had a massive regime change, that the regime change is lasting, and that stimulus efforts to date have done nothing to fix the structural problems at hand.


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Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/fooled-by-stimulus-economists-still-missing-the-huge-economic-regime-change-2010-8#ixzz0w8F1ZgjB

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Re: Failure of the Stim Bill in new Graph. Even 240 can't spin this.
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2010, 11:26:21 AM »
240's response: It would have been worst if the stim hadn't passed...I am surprised Obama still at 41% for job performance, that is just great considering all the bad legislation he has passed....Palin is a moron...Let me put up 30248230483208423 stupid palin threads and hide this thread....

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Soul Crusher

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Re: Failure of the Stim Bill in new Graph. Even 240 can't spin this.
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2010, 12:14:09 PM »
August 9, 2010
How Obama Should Fix the Economy
By Peter Morici



To accomplish robust growth and lower unemployment to pre-recession levels, President Obama must temper his impulse to tax and regulate, and stop appeasing China and Wall Street.

The Bush years were better than he admits, and a lot better than his policies promise.

The 24 months prior to the financial crisis, unemployment was less than 5%. Now, Treasury Secretary Geithner and liberal intellectuals advising the president say 10% unemployment is the new normal, tutelage to China is inevitable, and Wall Street financiers deserve obscene bonuses for engineering it all.

The pre-crisis prosperity was created by bipartisan policies that empowered Americans to create wealth.

Freer trade championed by presidents since Kennedy, and deregulation begun by Carter with the airlines were critical. So were cutting excessively high taxes on middle- and upper-income Americans, initiated by Ronald Reagan, interrupted by Bill Clinton, and reinstated by Mr. Bush.

Now, Barack Obama threatens to intrude into every dimension of private enterprise -- not just in health care and banking. Large non-financial corporations have almost $2 trillion dollars in idle cash, because CEOs can't identify profitable opportunities and worry ever higher taxes and regulators on steroids will destroy their businesses.

Raising taxes on families earning more than $250,000 -- as President Obama obsesses to do -- would sink the recovery. Increasing marginal rates to about 50% on half the income earned by proprietorships would leave small and medium sized businesses with too few resources and incentives to invest and create new jobs.

Geithner states repeatedly the growth of the past several decades was unstable and riddled with crises. Yet, economists refer to the mid-1980s through 2007 as the "Great Moderation." Fluctuations in GDP, industrial production and employment were mild, and inflation ceased to be a problem.

Now, President Obama tells us we must endure higher taxes, higher health insurance premiums and more expensive energy to enjoy the stability of crippling unemployment, as he socializes large chunks of the economy and expands federally-sponsored welfare to compensate the victims.

President Obama's impulse for broader state control, higher taxes and more federal largess are wrongheaded, because problems in only two areas instigated the financial crisis and destroyed the recent prosperity.

China and the big banks abused the opportunities created by free trade agreements and repeal of Glass-Steagall, both crafted by the Clinton administration.

China undervalues its currency, blocks U.S. exports and otherwise subsidizes its exports into the United States. Banks made reckless loans and hid risks in arcane mortgage-backed securities and structured investment vehicles to create huge executive bonuses.
The trade deficit deflated demand for what Americans make, and the credit crunch made business expansion impossible. Voila, the Great Recession!

The Bush tax cuts and deregulation in other industries did little to encourage those abuses.

Mr. Obama continues the Bush policy of negotiating with China, obtaining few meaningful results. Obama's bank reforms leave the big banks bigger than before (still too big to fail), ineffectively regulates mortgage-backed securities, and handicaps the 8,000 regional banks that do most of the lending to small and medium-sized businesses.

Systemic ills unaddressed, the economy is mired in a weak recovery and may soon double dip. Housing is depressed, consumers correctly distrust banks and are fearful to use credit cards even for good purposes, and more than 450,000 Americans file for first-time unemployment benefits each week.

Anemic growth causes big deficits. And like the death bed physicians that bled President Washington twice, President Obama wants to double down on higher spending and taxes. Speaker Nancy Pelosi has put a national sales tax on the table.

In 2007, federal spending was 19.6% of GDP and the federal deficit was a quite manageable $161 billion. For 2011, President Obama projects spending at 25.1% of GDP and the deficit at $1.3 trillion.

President Obama should dust off President Bush's 2007 budget and spend less, finally fix trade with China, craft policies that permit regional banks to compete, and bust up the big banks that thrust the global economy into the abyss.


Peter Morici is a professor at the University of Maryland School of Business and former Chief Economist at the U.S. International Trade Commission.

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Re: Failure of the Stim Bill in new Graph. Even 240 can't spin this.
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2010, 06:19:27 AM »
Did the Stimulus Stimulate?
The Obama team gives macroeconomics a bad name.
BY Lawrence B. Lindsey
August 16, 2010, Vol. 15, No. 45
   ShareThis 

www.realclearpolitics.co m

________________________ ________________________ __



A recent paper by Alan Blinder and Mark Zandi claims that if not for the response of the federal government, the unemployment rate would be 15.7 percent, far higher than the current 9.5 percent. The press quickly reported that this vindicated the Obama stimulus plan. But the fact is that most of the positive effects cited in their paper came not from the stimulus but from stabilizing actions of the Federal Reserve, the FDIC, and TARP.

The paper argued that fiscal stimulus enacted under both Presidents Bush and Obama lowered the unemployment rate by 1.5 percentage points. But it did not measure either the number of people who found work or the effectiveness with which the Obama stimulus created jobs. Instead, it assumed through the use of economic modeling that the recently enacted stimulus was roughly as effective, dollar for dollar, as similar provisions in the past. It then multiplied the past measures of job creating effectiveness by the number of dollars in the current plan and added the result to the current unemployment rate.

This is the economic equivalent of assuming there are 1,000 angels on the head of a pin, observing that we have 10 pins, and therefore calculating that we must have 10,000 angels. The math is fine. But it sheds no light on the key policy issue—were the recently passed acts of government stimulus cost effective? The degree of cost effectiveness was an assumed number, not one calculated using any version of the scientific method.



One way to correct this is to treat the current stimulus as one would treat any other kind of scientific or social scientific experiment: Form a hypothesis before you run the experiment, run the experiment, and then observe how the results of the experiment compare with your original hypothesis. Christina Romer, who resigned last Friday as chairman of the president’s Council of Economic Advisers, and Jared Bern-stein, chief economic adviser to Vice President Biden, have done the first part of this experiment. In January 2009, they published a paper using a model similar to the one Blinder and Zandi used to project what would happen if President Obama’s proposed stimulus package passed, compared with what would happen if it did not.

The Romer-Bernstein paper has often been cited as saying that if the package passed, the unemployment rate would peak below 8 percent in the middle of 2009 and would decline to below 7.5 percent by now. Obviously this has not happened. The administration, along with Blinder and Zandi, argue that it is not fair to conclude that this proves the package was a failure since Romer and Bern-stein underestimated the severity of the recession and that unemployment was already 8.2 percent in the first quarter of 2009, higher than the assumed peak.




I am sympathetic to their argument and Chart 1 corrects for their complaint by raising their estimate of where unemployment started in their experiment. The lowest line provides the original estimate of the path of unemployment provided by Romer and Bernstein on January 9, 2009. The second line replicates the Romer and Bernstein path, but raises the initial unemployment rate from their assumed 7.5 percent to 8.2 percent. This was the actual average of the unemployment rate in the first quarter of 2009, the period in which the stimulus was passed. The third line provides a more extreme alternative by raising the initial unemployment rate to the 9.3 percent average of the second quarter 2009. The first modification fully compensates for their objection while the second modification more than compensates for their concern.

But as the chart shows, the problem with the stimulus wasn’t just the starting point—it was that the stimulus itself has been ineffective at lowering it. Chart 1 shows that the actual unemployment rate, given by the solid line, is not only above the original Romer-Bernstein projections, but also above projections that take account of the “starting point” problem. Actual unemployment has been consistently above all of the projections, regardless of starting point, because the stimulus bill has basically brought no relief in terms of lower unemployment.

Chart 2 shows the Romer-Bernstein projections of what would have happened if the stimulus had not passed, but as in Chart 1, those projections were shifted up to reflect a higher starting unemployment rate. The striking observation is that after correcting for the higher starting point, the actual performance of the economy is almost exactly what Romer and Bernstein said would happen if we had done nothing, rather than passing the $800 billion package.

There are ample reasons for this lack of success. National Economic Council chairman Larry Summers argued that stimulus should be “timely, targeted, and temporary.” But the package that passed was neither timely nor targeted and today Congress is faced with making many of the stimulus programs permanent because unemployment remains stubbornly high.

The bill was not timely because the bulk of the funds were disbursed through the cumbersome government contracting process—and often made doubly complicated because the funds were then channeled through state and local governments. Weekly data collected in 2009 (since discontinued) showed a very consistent $7 billion of stimulus disbursed every week starting in the second quarter of 2009. If you are one of the 6.8 million persons unemployed for six months or more, this slow pace of disbursement is anything but timely.



Nor was the bill targeted, at least in any economically sensible way. It was written not by Larry Summers or Christina Romer, but by Democratic members of congressional appropriations committees, based on the normal political logrolling and reward process. This is the group that notoriously brought us “bridges to nowhere” in the past. The bill was, moreover, rushed through without much review or oversight. One may remember that the stimulus bill was the one that authorized the payment of bonuses to AIG executives, a fact not discovered until well after the bill was signed. This was then followed by days of publicly discussed “mystery” about how such a provision was included. Well-designed targeting would not have included such provisions.

From a macroeconomic perspective, a targeted bill would have injected money directly into the cash flow of American households and small businesses where it was needed. Many of us who supported the administration’s call for a stimulus in early 2009 recommended the reduction of the payroll tax for both employers and employees, something with the same net revenue effect as what was passed. Such a payroll tax cut would have provided an incentive at the margin for continued work and employment for more than 90 percent of the labor force. The tax provision in the actual stimulus that passed did so for less than 15 percent of the labor force, and the spending provisions impacted only 2 percent of the labor force even under the administration’s assumptions. That is bad targeting.

The Blinder and Zandi paper did note that a few provisions of the stimulus appeared to be particularly effective at pulling forward economic activity. These were the “Cash for Clunkers” program and the first time homeowners’ tax credit. But both of these programs were enacted separately from the $800 billion American Recovery and Reinvestment Act and together totaled less than $20 billion. How you spend money is as important as how much you spend. Since the beginning of the recession, the number of unemployed has increased by more than 8 million people. For $800 billion, we could have handed every one of these people a check for $100,000—which gives a sense of what was possible with that much money and just how inefficient the actual program was.

It really should be no surprise that the stimulus bill has created far fewer jobs, dollar for dollar, than past stimulus measures. That is why it is methodologically spurious to assert that unemployment is far lower than it would be in its absence. I say that as one whom the administration itself cited as a supporter of a generic stimulus measure back in January 2009. I continue to believe that it would be a mistake to withdraw stimulus from the economy—such as by raising taxes or by letting existing tax provisions expire. This despite the very high deficits we are now experiencing. Our policy problem today is that the bill that was actually passed into law was both so expensive and so badly flawed that it gives the whole concept of macroeconomic stimulus a bad name.

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Re: Failure of the Stim Bill in new Graph. Even 240 can't spin this.
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2010, 07:52:21 AM »
A certain group of posters on this board seem to be avoiding this thread like the plague. Must be too busy talking about Palin.  :-X

Soul Crusher

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Re: Failure of the Stim Bill in new Graph. Even 240 can't spin this.
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2010, 07:55:37 AM »
A certain group of posters on this board seem to be avoiding this thread like the plague. Must be too busy talking about Palin.  :-X

Just like the cult leader: 

1.  Blame Bush
2.  Blame Bush
3.  Blame Cheney
4.  Blame Palin
5.  Blame Reagan
6.  Blame Nixon
7.  Blame Calvin Coolidge
8.  Blame Thomas Jefferson 
9.  blame Moses
10.  blame adam & eve. 

 

Soul Crusher

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Re: Failure of the Stim Bill in new Graph. Even 240 can't spin this.
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2010, 12:36:10 PM »
Libs staying away from this like the plague. 

Soul Crusher

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Re: Failure of the Stim Bill in new Graph. Even 240 can't spin this.
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2011, 12:33:58 PM »
bump

Option D

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Re: Failure of the Stim Bill in new Graph. Even 240 can't spin this.
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2011, 01:12:15 PM »
Bump for what?

Soul Crusher

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Re: Failure of the Stim Bill in new Graph. Even 240 can't spin this.
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2011, 01:17:15 PM »
Bump for what?


KC claims I dont know what I am talking about.   Funny, other than myself and a few others, none of the Team Messiah crew predicted as accurately the results of the failed stim bill as I did. 

Just adds fuel to the fire that obama was laughing about its failure with Immelt yesterday along with blaming ATM machines for his failures.   

Soul Crusher

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Re: Failure of the Stim Bill in new Graph. Even 240 can't spin this.
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2012, 12:13:32 PM »
Bump for what?

Bump this bitch. 


Total FAIL by Preeezy to the Steeezy 

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Re: Failure of the Stim Bill in new Graph. Even 240 can't spin this.
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2012, 12:19:52 PM »
Um ok... i said i wasnt for the stim bill.. Stop sucking so much Romney Cock...the sperm is getting to your brain