Author Topic: Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic center  (Read 18948 times)

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic center
« Reply #150 on: August 17, 2010, 05:20:47 AM »
RELEASE THE HOUNDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dog v. 9mm = no match. 

garebear

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Re: Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic center
« Reply #151 on: August 17, 2010, 05:22:41 AM »
I just saw Bloomberg on TV saying "where freedom was attacked" about Ground Zero.

Does he say this often? Seems very Bush-esque for Bloomberg to me, so I was curious.
G

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic center
« Reply #152 on: August 17, 2010, 05:26:02 AM »
I just saw Bloomberg on TV saying "where freedom was attacked" about Ground Zero.

Does he say this often? Seems very Bush-esque for Bloomberg to me, so I was curious.

Bloomberg has cratered in popularity over this issue locally. 

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic center
« Reply #153 on: August 17, 2010, 05:36:12 AM »
Bob freaking nails it. 

Bob for Prez. 


garebear

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Re: Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic center
« Reply #154 on: August 17, 2010, 05:39:11 AM »
Bob freaking nails it. 

Bob for Prez. 


That guy is funny.

Obama won't be leaving the White House in November 2012, even if he loses the election.

And how is he sure that Al Qaeda is funding the mosque?
G

The Showstoppa

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Re: Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic center
« Reply #155 on: August 17, 2010, 06:11:19 AM »
Wouldn't surprise me if the "religion of peace" just used the building to pack a few tons of TNT and try to finish the job on NYC...

Montague

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Re: Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic center
« Reply #156 on: August 17, 2010, 06:13:55 AM »
Show, stop sterotyping.
It's not fair.
Don't let that 98.7% influence your perception of the rest.


Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic center
« Reply #157 on: August 17, 2010, 06:24:16 AM »
I am sick of the apologists for this thing.  Just because they have a legal right to do this does not make it right.

Additionally, anyone who supposedly claims to want to build bridges and promote tolerance does not as his first act piss on the graves of the dead where people in the name of his own religion committed the larget act of mass murder in US history.     

Montague

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Re: Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic center
« Reply #158 on: August 17, 2010, 06:36:21 AM »
Um...
Why are we the ones building bridges?
They attacked us!
What message are we trying to convey - "We're sorry you killed 3,000 of our innocent citizens. Here's another mosque. Please forgive us."


Besides, they already have the right to practice their religion here.
What difference will one more mosque make?

All of the information points to the real reasons they want this thing built.
We all know what those reasons are.
A few just fail to acknowledge them.


Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic center
« Reply #159 on: August 17, 2010, 06:39:31 AM »
Um...
Why are we the ones building bridges?
They attacked us!
What message are we trying to convey - "We're sorry you killed 3,000 of our innocent citizens. Here's another mosque. Please forgive us."


Besides, they already have the right to practice their religion here.
What difference will one more mosque make?

All of the information points to the real reasons they want this thing built.
We all know what those reasons are.
A few just fail to acknowledge them.



And the dupes and useful idiots on the left allowing themselves to again to be played for fools under misguided notions of tolerance, fairness, etc. 

They cling on to the most vacuous arguments and dont want to hear anything else.   

240 is Back

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Re: Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic center
« Reply #160 on: August 17, 2010, 06:40:23 AM »
I am sick of the apologists for this thing.  Just because they have a legal right to do this does not make it right.

You feel they have a legal right to build this mosque there?

Montague

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Re: Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic center
« Reply #161 on: August 17, 2010, 06:53:27 AM »
And the dupes and useful idiots on the left allowing themselves to again to be played for fools under misguided notions of tolerance, fairness, etc. 

They cling on to the most vacuous arguments and dont want to hear anything else.   


I still fail to understand how or why anyone so vehemently defends the rights of a religion-based terrorist network and their supporters to our Constitution.

Do you think the Founding Fathers had this in mind when they penned the Constitution?
Our Founding Fathers blew off people’s heads for taxing their morning beverage.

They would never stand for this shit.


Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic center
« Reply #162 on: August 17, 2010, 07:06:34 AM »
Yeah 240 - this thing really seems like its on the up and up.   ::)  ::)

________________________ _________________

Imam Feisal Watch: Let’s Try It Again, Where’s the Man Behind the GZ Mosque?
Pajamas Media ^ | August 16, 2010 | Claudia Rosett


Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 9:12:23 AM by Kaslin

Where exactly is Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, the man behind the $100 million Ground Zero mosque project? I keep asking because weeks after he stopped answering any questions about his “Cordoba House” plans, there is still no answer.

By now, there is information in Rauf’s silence. He launched his Ground Zero mosque and Islamic center project in the name of “dialogue,” “outreach” and “bridge-building” in lower Manhattan. In doing so, he trampled on raw feelings, and set off a divisive debate. Rauf’s apparent dismissal of public questions as not worth his time, while he travels to the Middle East on U.S. taxpayer money, suggests enormous contempt for the American public.

Rauf dropped out of sight weeks ago, and as far as I can discover, he hasn’t answered any questions from the press since Reuters spoke to him by phone on July 22nd. (When I surprised him at his office in Malaysia on July 30th, Malaysian time, after his New York office said he was traveling and unreachable, he got right back off the phone to return to an “important meeting,” and then referred all further questions back to his office in New York.)

So, as far as I can discover, it’s now almost four weeks since Rauf last took any questions from the U.S. media or public. All we really know at this point is that after spending time in Malaysia (Did he go anywhere else? Who knows?), Rauf is due right around now to be meeting and greeting in some of the petro-dollar capitals of the Middle East — as part of a multi-week Ramadan “public diplomacy” tour hosted by the State Department, courtesy of the U.S. embassies in Qatar, Bahrain and the United Arab Emirates.

If Rauf is there for “public diplomacy,” or “bridge-building,” or “outreach,” or whatever we’re calling such junkets these days, then what is his day-to-day schedule? Who is he meeting with? Where is he right now? Why should both Rauf and the State Department be treating the details of his “public diplomacy” tour as something to be kept secret from the American public?

Apart from confirming the destinations to which his taxpayer-bankrolled tickets will take him, and where taxpayer money will cover his hotels and his per diems, the State Department in Washington has refused to provide any details. Last week, the U.S. Embassy in Bahrain told me that Rauf is expected there Aug. 19, and will stay for “a couple of days.” But none of the other embassies he’s visiting were willing to say anything on the record, and I have yet to find a jot of information about his current trip on any of their web sites.

Most telling: From Rauf, self-proclaimed “bridge-builder,” there has been no word. His Cordoba Initiative foundation has been tweeting and blogging and posting away about assorted endorsements of his Ground Zero mosque project. But of Rauf’s taxpayer-funded travels to the Middle East, there is no news. No chatty missive from the imam about who’s on his dance card in Doha, or Manama, or Dubai, or Abu Dhabi. No updates on how or where or from whom he is now expecting to procure the $100 million for his Cordoba House. Nor is there any detail about the itinerary of his wife and partner in Islamic nonprofits, Daisy Khan, for whom the State Department has arranged her own taxpayer-funded junket to Dubai and Abu Dhabi this same month.

It’s easy to lose sight of the imam’s vanishing act, because his name is everywhere. Just about everyone from the Palestinian terrorists of Hamas to President Barack Obama has been busy talking about Rauf’s $100 million Ground Zero mosque project. Obama weighed in Friday evening at a White House Ramadan dinner, and then sorta kinda tried to weigh back out over the weekend.  The Cordoba Initiative, on its blog, is playing up his remarks as an endorsement. The New York Post reports that a Hamas leader in Gaza, Mahmoud al-Zahar, is thrilled about Rauf’s mosque project. And we all know by now that Mayor Michael Bloomberg has been cheering it on, and doesn’t care where the money comes from.

But where is Rauf? Has anyone had a sighting? What was he doing for weeks in Malaysia? Who was at that “important meeting” in his Kuala Lumpur office? What is he doing right now in the Gulf (if, indeed, he is now there)? What will be the choreography of his reappearance when he finally deigns to return to New York? And what does his choice of this lengthy communications blackout tell us about his respect — or lack of respect — for the American public?


240 is Back

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Re: Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic center
« Reply #163 on: August 17, 2010, 07:10:48 AM »
Yeah 240 - this thing really seems like its on the up and up.   ::)  ::)

I didn't ask you if it was on the up-and-up.  Sounds like a shady bunch to me.

I wondered if they have a legal right to build.  You seemed to suggest they did:

Just because they have a legal right to do this does not make it right.

So are you, a lawyer, admitting you believe they have a LEGAL RIGHT to build?  Let's toss the morality out for a minute... let's nail down the legal issue, then we can get into the ethics.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic center
« Reply #164 on: August 17, 2010, 07:12:51 AM »
I didn't ask you if it was on the up-and-up.  Sounds like a shady bunch to me.

I wondered if they have a legal right to build.  You seemed to suggest they did:

So are you, a lawyer, admitting you believe they have a LEGAL RIGHT to build?  Let's toss the morality out for a minute... let's nail down the legal issue, then we can get into the ethics.

They don't have an unfettered legal right.  They have the same right as anyone else who would want to build something there and they have gone through the channels, etc etc.  However, the funding of this is dubious and in IMHO should hold this thing up pending full disclosure. 

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic center
« Reply #165 on: August 17, 2010, 07:38:16 AM »
The President Distorts Arguments on Ground Zero Mosque
Townhall.com ^ | August 17, 2010 | Michael Medved

Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:17:46 AM by Kaslin


________________________ ________________________ ____________________

On Friday night, the President of the United States plunged into the long-simmering controversy surrounding a proposed Islamic Center in Lower Manhattan, mischaracterizing the underlying issues while avoiding a clear position on the project itself. In his carefully prepared remarks to a religious Muslim audience, Mr. Obama chastised opponents of the Mosque for disregarding time-honored principles of religious liberty, and interfering with freedom of worship for Muslims. The next day, he insisted that he never meant to express an opinion on the wisdom or suitability of the specific site for the new center, implying that he might even sympathize with calls for its relocation.

In the process of his unfolding explanations, the president seemed to be arguing with phantoms, or with straw men. None of the prominent critics of Cordoba House deny that Muslims deserve the same freedom as other religious groups to build houses of worship to serve their adherents.

But no faith community can use religious liberty as an excuse to build whatever they want wherever they want it. All major projects – whether Christian, Jewish, Muslim or secular – must pass tests of suitability and, in some cases, change plans to accommodate community concerns.


In the case of this particular project, the widespread discomfort goes far beyond worries of direct connections with Al Qaeda or other radicals.

No, all Muslims aren’t the same, but all Mosques are the same, in one important sense at least: they all celebrate Islam. They exalt its teachings, traditions, history and adherents.

Yes, American Muslims enjoy a right to celebrate their faith in their mosques.

But it remains wildly inappropriate to celebrate and glorify one particular faith at the scene of one of the most notorious crimes in its history.

The lot Imam Rauf has selected holds no sacred meaning for Muslims, but profound significance to the families and friends who lost loved ones in the immediate vicinity. Only one important event in Islamic history ever occurred near the site proposed for the most ambitious Muslim center in the nation – and that event involved the mass murder of 3,000 American innocents.

If moderate Muslims seek to build on this particular site they should be a mourning monument to the fallen, with explicit acknowledgement of the twisted, evil theology that motivated their killers. It shouldn’t be a glitzy, 13-story, triumphal structure that aims to become the most visible national center for Islamic faith and culture.

The insistence on creating such a building on such a place sends a dishonest, disturbing message: that Islam itself bears no special connection to the attacks of 9/11, and that the Mosque’s planners feel no shame over their co-religionists who planned and executed those crimes.

There’s only one other possible interpretation of the stubborn refusal to relocate the project, and it’s even more alarming: that in some way, the mosque builders aren’t ashamed at what occurred at Ground Zero, they are actually proud of it.

This relates to the understandably complex reaction of even some sane, decent Muslims to the revolting misdeeds of the radicals who share essential elements of their faith. Yes, they’re all horrified by the bloody deeds of Osama and his henchmen but those crimes brought Islam back to the center stage of world events, ending the sense of irrelevance and impotence. In a similar way, the Cordoba House project is an effort to bring new prominence and attention to a religious faith that claims 1% of the U.S. population (according to the best available figures) – an effort that is successfully using the public controversy and sense of outrage to achieve its over-arching goal of seizing the spotlight.

Muslims of every orientation should feel shame and regret at Ground Zero – even those Muslims who never endorsed or sanctioned jihadist terror. All Christians feel ashamed at sites where their clergy and crusaders twisted the faith and perpetrated horrors – even if those atrocities occurred hundreds of years ago. No contemporary Christian would propose a gleaming, soaring new religious structure adjacent to the site of some bloody pogrom or massacre visited upon innocent victims in the name of Christ.

Scenes of horrific carnage should never become the focus for pride and glorification of the creed that inspired the mass murderers. Those sites must honor the dead, not their killers.

The determination to go forward with the controversial mosque, and the president’s dismissive tone in defending those plans, both try to deny or erase the connection between Islamic teachings and the terrorists who murdered in their name.

In his speech on the subject, Mr. Obama stoutly declared, “This is America” – as if only one side of the argument represented true American values.

Actually, one of our most important national traditions involves the emphasis on personal responsibility and accountability. Any effort to ignore (or, even worse, to glorify) the connection between Islam and the crimes of September 11th is an insult – and an assault – on that proud American principle.

________________________ ________________________ ________________


Best article I have read yet on this subject. 

OzmO

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Re: Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic center
« Reply #166 on: August 17, 2010, 07:40:52 AM »
So then exactly how does a thing like this get the go ahead?  Who(s) voted it in?

Fury

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Re: Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic center
« Reply #167 on: August 17, 2010, 07:44:11 AM »
The President Distorts Arguments on Ground Zero Mosque
Townhall.com ^ | August 17, 2010 | Michael Medved

Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:17:46 AM by Kaslin


________________________ ________________________ ____________________

On Friday night, the President of the United States plunged into the long-simmering controversy surrounding a proposed Islamic Center in Lower Manhattan, mischaracterizing the underlying issues while avoiding a clear position on the project itself. In his carefully prepared remarks to a religious Muslim audience, Mr. Obama chastised opponents of the Mosque for disregarding time-honored principles of religious liberty, and interfering with freedom of worship for Muslims. The next day, he insisted that he never meant to express an opinion on the wisdom or suitability of the specific site for the new center, implying that he might even sympathize with calls for its relocation.

In the process of his unfolding explanations, the president seemed to be arguing with phantoms, or with straw men. None of the prominent critics of Cordoba House deny that Muslims deserve the same freedom as other religious groups to build houses of worship to serve their adherents.

But no faith community can use religious liberty as an excuse to build whatever they want wherever they want it. All major projects – whether Christian, Jewish, Muslim or secular – must pass tests of suitability and, in some cases, change plans to accommodate community concerns.


In the case of this particular project, the widespread discomfort goes far beyond worries of direct connections with Al Qaeda or other radicals.

No, all Muslims aren’t the same, but all Mosques are the same, in one important sense at least: they all celebrate Islam. They exalt its teachings, traditions, history and adherents.

Yes, American Muslims enjoy a right to celebrate their faith in their mosques.

But it remains wildly inappropriate to celebrate and glorify one particular faith at the scene of one of the most notorious crimes in its history.

The lot Imam Rauf has selected holds no sacred meaning for Muslims, but profound significance to the families and friends who lost loved ones in the immediate vicinity. Only one important event in Islamic history ever occurred near the site proposed for the most ambitious Muslim center in the nation – and that event involved the mass murder of 3,000 American innocents.

If moderate Muslims seek to build on this particular site they should be a mourning monument to the fallen, with explicit acknowledgement of the twisted, evil theology that motivated their killers. It shouldn’t be a glitzy, 13-story, triumphal structure that aims to become the most visible national center for Islamic faith and culture.

The insistence on creating such a building on such a place sends a dishonest, disturbing message: that Islam itself bears no special connection to the attacks of 9/11, and that the Mosque’s planners feel no shame over their co-religionists who planned and executed those crimes.

There’s only one other possible interpretation of the stubborn refusal to relocate the project, and it’s even more alarming: that in some way, the mosque builders aren’t ashamed at what occurred at Ground Zero, they are actually proud of it.

This relates to the understandably complex reaction of even some sane, decent Muslims to the revolting misdeeds of the radicals who share essential elements of their faith. Yes, they’re all horrified by the bloody deeds of Osama and his henchmen but those crimes brought Islam back to the center stage of world events, ending the sense of irrelevance and impotence. In a similar way, the Cordoba House project is an effort to bring new prominence and attention to a religious faith that claims 1% of the U.S. population (according to the best available figures) – an effort that is successfully using the public controversy and sense of outrage to achieve its over-arching goal of seizing the spotlight.

Muslims of every orientation should feel shame and regret at Ground Zero – even those Muslims who never endorsed or sanctioned jihadist terror. All Christians feel ashamed at sites where their clergy and crusaders twisted the faith and perpetrated horrors – even if those atrocities occurred hundreds of years ago. No contemporary Christian would propose a gleaming, soaring new religious structure adjacent to the site of some bloody pogrom or massacre visited upon innocent victims in the name of Christ.

Scenes of horrific carnage should never become the focus for pride and glorification of the creed that inspired the mass murderers. Those sites must honor the dead, not their killers.

The determination to go forward with the controversial mosque, and the president’s dismissive tone in defending those plans, both try to deny or erase the connection between Islamic teachings and the terrorists who murdered in their name.

In his speech on the subject, Mr. Obama stoutly declared, “This is America” – as if only one side of the argument represented true American values.

Actually, one of our most important national traditions involves the emphasis on personal responsibility and accountability. Any effort to ignore (or, even worse, to glorify) the connection between Islam and the crimes of September 11th is an insult – and an assault – on that proud American principle.

________________________ ________________________ ________________


Best article I have read yet on this subject. 

Great article.

240 has been avoiding Kazan's questions about the constitution while parroting the lie that anyone can build a house of worship anywhere they want and at anytime they please (despite mountains of evidence pointing to the contrary). He's terribly uninformed and his continued avoidance of a simple question shows that he was caught out in his disinformation game.


Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic center
« Reply #168 on: August 17, 2010, 07:46:59 AM »
The insistence on creating such a building on such a place sends a dishonest, disturbing message: that Islam itself bears no special connection to the attacks of 9/11, and that the Mosque’s planners feel no shame over their co-religionists who planned and executed those crimes.

There’s only one other possible interpretation of the stubborn refusal to relocate the project, and it’s even more alarming: that in some way, the mosque builders aren’t ashamed at what occurred at Ground Zero, they are actually proud of it.


________________________ ________________________ ______

This is the truth that the dupes and apologists don't want to address. 

Fury

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Re: Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic center
« Reply #169 on: August 17, 2010, 07:50:17 AM »
The insistence on creating such a building on such a place sends a dishonest, disturbing message: that Islam itself bears no special connection to the attacks of 9/11, and that the Mosque’s planners feel no shame over their co-religionists who planned and executed those crimes.

There’s only one other possible interpretation of the stubborn refusal to relocate the project, and it’s even more alarming: that in some way, the mosque builders aren’t ashamed at what occurred at Ground Zero, they are actually proud of it.


________________________ ________________________ ______

This is the truth that the dupes and apologists don't want to address. 

They ignore it while thumping their chests and lying about the Constitution.


OzmO

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Re: Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic center
« Reply #170 on: August 17, 2010, 07:50:46 AM »
Who here supports this?

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic center
« Reply #171 on: August 17, 2010, 07:51:00 AM »
Scenes of horrific carnage should never become the focus for pride and glorification of the creed that inspired the mass murderers. Those sites must honor the dead, not their killers.

________________________ _____________________

How freaking hard is this for you people to grasp?  

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic center
« Reply #172 on: August 17, 2010, 07:53:04 AM »
Who here supports this?

The POTUS, Bloomberg, Cuomo, Nadler, Big Mal, Samson, Jag, 240, Blacken, etc. 

I'm sure Benny and a few others love the idea as well. 

Straw Man

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Re: Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic center
« Reply #173 on: August 17, 2010, 07:55:07 AM »
a friend sent me this "tweet" this morning.

I have no clue who said it but it made me laugh

In fairness, we've been building 'ground zeros' near Iraqi mosques since March 2003.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic center
« Reply #174 on: August 17, 2010, 07:57:40 AM »
a friend sent me this "tweet" this morning.

I have no clue who said it but it made me laugh

In fairness, we've been building 'ground zeros' near Iraqi mosques since March 2003.

yeah, as a result of islamic terrorists using the mosques to launch attacks on troops and weapons depots.