Lesnar/Cain in October. Let the discussion begin...

[coltrane]

We'll it's officially ya'll! 

I think that if Cain can keep the fight standing, Lesnar is a dead man.  Cain's speed and stamina should be too much for Lesnar.  If it goes down, I hope Cain has an answer for the mauling Lesnar will put on him.  Cain is a great wrestler, but so is Lesnar.. and he's much larger/stronger.

Overall, I see Cain by KO in the first. 

[benchmstr]

We'll it's officially ya'll! 

I think that if Cain can keep the fight standing, Lesnar is a dead man.  Cain's speed and stamina should be too much for Lesnar.  If it goes down, I hope Cain has an answer for the mauling Lesnar will put on him.  Cain is a great wrestler, but so is Lesnar.. and he's much larger/stronger.

Overall, I see Cain by KO in the first. 

if the ref is rosenthal....lesnar by ref...

bench

[George Whorewell]

Velasquez by KO or TKO in the second round.

[coltrane]

if the ref is rosenthal....lesnar by ref...

bench

Lol..  haha..

[rccs]

We'll it's officially ya'll! 

I think that if Cain can keep the fight standing, Lesnar is a dead man.  Cain's speed and stamina should be too much for Lesnar.  If it goes down, I hope Cain has an answer for the mauling Lesnar will put on him.  Cain is a great wrestler, but so is Lesnar.. and he's much larger/stronger.

Overall, I see Cain by KO in the first. 

Lesnar will win one way or another... superior athlete...

[RancherRanger]

I don't see Cain beating Lesnar.  Lesnar has superior wrestling and the size advantage.  I don't see why people are now raving over Cains standup.  Who has he knocked out except a washed up Nog?

[coltrane]

It's not who he's knock'd out... it who he's stopped by punches.. and that's just about everyone he's fought.   

Cain is overwhelming in his cardio.  He is all over the fighter he fights.  He doesn't give the other fighter the chance to breathe.   He is also scrappy. 

What happened to Carwin WON'T happen to Cain. 

[George Whorewell]

Coltrane is right.

Cain is actually a better wrestler than Carwin (by a lot) and has 10x the cardio.

Throw in the fact that he has a durable chin, a big heart and 1000000x better standup than Lesnar and I honestly don't know how everybody ISNT picking him to finish Brock.

Lesnar got punched in the face once and ran around the cage like a little fucking pussy. Carwin should have finished him but didn't and when round 2 started he was gassed. That is the ONLY reason Brock won the fight. Submitting a dead tired fighter with a white belt level BJJ submission says nothing about the fighter who executed the sub, except that he had more energy than the other guy.

If Lesnar puts Cain on his back, of course he may be able to finish the fight, but barring that, I don't see any concieveable way Cain loses this fight. 

[UPINTHEMGUTS]

Once again, Lesnar will prove all the haters wrong.

All of these pathetic excuses as to why Lesnar beat Carwin. "Because Carwin was gassed......" . Lesnar is not a standup fighter. He got tagged and backed off. He wasn't going to stand up and exchange with Carwin. Carwin couldn't finish Brock when it counted and punched himself out.

Lesnar finished the fight and was the better man that day, end of story. Until he legitimately losses again(like he did in the first Mir fight), give the man his due. He deserves the respect as the heavyweight champion.

Bunch of little internet tough guys with tons of excuses hating on Brock. Hilarious.


He will defeat Cain. To much size and strength for Cain to handle. Much better athlete as well.

[WeightPSHR]

Cain's biggest enemy in this fight is the HUGE size and strength difference. I know Cain can't hit any harder than Carwin.

Cain is really at a loss no matter where the fight goes.  He most likely will not be able to control Brock on the ground if he gets him down.

If he stands, Brock will take the punches he has to offer and most likely take Cain down.

I really feel Cain is one of the best, most well rounded guys in the HW division, but he is giving up serous size and strength.

Until Brock loses, I will never go against him again. I am picking Brock by TKO via GNP 1st round.

[James]

Cain is actually a better wrestler than Carwin (by a lot)

George, don't you think that is a bit much?

Brock's Collegiate Record: 106-5
Cain's Collegiate Record 77-37

[chaos]

Now I just like to see a good fight, and everything that is being said here in this thread you guys could replace Cain with Carwin cause it was all said before........same exact shit, different name.

[George Whorewell]

George, don't you think that is a bit much?

Brock's Collegiate Record: 106-5
Cain's Collegiate Record 77-37

Arizona State division 1 versus division 2 or 3 (I forget where he wrestled)?

I'd say a 77-37 at ASU is more impressive.

[James]

Arizona State division 1 versus division 2 or 3 (I forget where he wrestled)?

I'd say a 77-37 at ASU is more impressive.

Both Brock and Cain wrestled Div 1.  Brock was a Division 1 NCAA heavyweight Champion, that means he beat the very best, just as Cain did.

Both are pretty similar, as both first started at Junior College, and both became Junior College National Champions, before moving on to Division 1 Schools, where both became NCAA Division I Champions.


More Information:
http://www.examiner.com/college-wrestling-in-national/ufc-116-preview-brock-lesnar-s-amateur-wrestling-credentials

[George Whorewell]

James you made a mistake brother.

Look at the highlighted portion you pasted into your original post.

I never ever said Cain was a better wrestler than Brock.

I said Cain was a better wrestler than Carwin. 

Coltrane is right.

Cain is actually a better wrestler than Carwin (by a lot) and has 10x the cardio.
Throw in the fact that he has a durable chin, a big heart and 1000000x better standup than Lesnar and I honestly don't know how everybody ISNT picking him to finish Brock.

Lesnar got punched in the face once and ran around the cage like a little fucking pussy. Carwin should have finished him but didn't and when round 2 started he was gassed. That is the ONLY reason Brock won the fight. Submitting a dead tired fighter with a white belt level BJJ submission says nothing about the fighter who executed the sub, except that he had more energy than the other guy.

If Lesnar puts Cain on his back, of course he may be able to finish the fight, but barring that, I don't see any concieveable way Cain loses this fight. 

[James]

James you made a mistake brother.

Look at the highlighted portion you pasted into your original post.

I never ever said Cain was a better wrestler than Brock.

I said Cain was a better wrestler than Carwin. 

My bad.

[G.O.A.T.]

Brock by GNP, Brock is the bigger, better, stronger wrestler. Cain has hands but he doesn't have the power Carwin did so I don't see that being an issue. Everyone gets so into wanting Brock to lose they lose a sense a reality. Cain is one of the best but he won't beat Brock. I think JDS has more of a chance than Cain. I think Cain and JDS should have fought for the #1 contender spot.

[George Whorewell]

GOAT you may be right about Lesnar being the better wrestler, but Velasquez is a much better wrestler than Carwin and has proven knock out power and 10x the cardio of Lesnar and Carwin. The difference in this fight is going to be that Velasquez wont gas out and roll into the fetal position after trying to finish Lesnar in the first round.

All Velasquez has to do is avoid being taken down and there is no doubt in my mind he will finish Lesnar.

I hate Lesnar and want him to lose, but that has nothing to do with my pick. Velasquez has all of the tools Carwin has, but much better cardio plus better technical boxing+ speed. Also, do not discount the fact that Velasquez has been in trouble before and has shown heart+ toughness. Carwin was never really in trouble ever and Lesnar was only in trouble once ( against Carwin) where he got saved by the referee and the bell.

[chaos]

GOAT you may be right about Lesnar being the better wrestler, but Velasquez is a much better wrestler than Carwin and has proven knock out power and 10x the cardio of Lesnar and Carwin. The difference in this fight is going to be that Velasquez wont gas out and roll into the fetal position after trying to finish Lesnar in the first round.

All Velasquez has to do is avoid being taken down and there is no doubt in my mind he will finish Lesnar.

I hate Lesnar and want him to lose, but that has nothing to do with my pick. Velasquez has all of the tools Carwin has, but much better cardio plus better technical boxing+ speed. Also, do not discount the fact that Velasquez has been in trouble before and has shown heart+ toughness. Carwin was never really in trouble ever and Lesnar was only in trouble once ( against Carwin) where he got saved by the referee and the bell.

If they spent the last few months putting Brock with a real boxing coach, he might surprise everyone. Don't forget how he knocked Heath on his ass. He has the ability, he just needs to get comfortable using it, and that win over Carwin may have been the boost in confidence he needed to not be afraid of getting hit.

[George Whorewell]

True-- but one thing about being afraid of being tagged; You can't teach a strong chin, or heart, or guts. Not being comfortable standing is one thing, running around the cage like a chicken when your the best wrestler in MMA history and you outweigh your opponent by 30 lbs is embarrassing.

Look- I do not discount Lesnars physical tools. The man is an absolute beast and an exceptional athlete. However, no coach can convince a man who doesn't want to get hit to take a punch. Velasquez is a terrific technical boxer. He has great hip+ shoulder movement in his strikes and he has precision punching down cold. The only guy that is a better boxer in the division is JDS ( who I'm sure gets the winner). Even if Brock spent the next month and change only practicing boxing, he would still be deficient in that area by a large margain. Also, when the chips are down or your gassed, you revert to what your comfortable doing. If Velasquez can push the pace and avoid being taken down, Lesnar is going to panic and either shoot or run away. Of course, anything is possible and I stand by my original thought that if Lesnar can out wrestle Velasquez he has a great shot of winning, but deep down I really think we are going to see Velasquez-JDS for the title.

If that happens, it will be the best interdivisional fight MMA has seen in a very long time. In the HW division, I can't think of a better match up besides Cro-Cop and Fedor or Fedor- Nogueirra II.

[chaos]

You're right you can't teach a chin......I guess I'm just jaded from reading these same exact comments from the Carwin fight. Yes Brock ran like a girl, yes he fell to the ground and covered up, yes he kept kicking and moving just enough to keep the fight from being stopped, and he came out looking fresh and fast the second round, regardless of what Carwin looked like, Brock looked beat up, but ready to go.

As far as teaching a guy to not flinch when a punch is thrown, that is his boxing coaches job, and I believe Brock should have fired the last fuck that trained him and brought in somebody that could teach him how to move/throw a punch.


Other contributing factors that I think alot of people blow off and ignore from the Carwin fight are, Carwins reputation as a one shot KO guy had to play into the "run like a bitch" move he pulled and it being Brocks first fight in however long had to wreak havoc on the nerves.

Regardless, I haven't seen anything out of Velasquez that made me look at him twice as a threat to Brock and quite frankly I hope Brock beats the shit out of him. If for nothing else than the silence on this board from the Brock haters.

[*ChuteBoxe*]

Brock has the best girly run into fetal position in all of MMA bar none, if he brings this and his fear of fists to the table that night he will be eating canvas.  Brock is bigger and stronger, but if Cain sits back and uses his superior striking technique defensively he can definitely take this one.  Brock is a good wrestler but he needs people like Cain (experienced wrestlers) to get them to over commit to strikes by coming foward to be deep enough to get the takedown.  If cain just stays on his toes and counterstrikes he's got a damn good chance of forcing Brock into making mistakes and capitalizing on them, then it would just be a matter of time before we see the best fetal position in all the world.

[chaos]

Brock has the best girly run into fetal position in all of MMA bar none, if he brings this and his fear of fists to the table that night he will be eating canvas.  Brock is bigger and stronger, but if Cain sits back and uses his superior striking technique defensively he can definitely take this one.  Brock is a good wrestler but he needs people like Cain (experienced wrestlers) to get them to over commit to strikes by coming foward to be deep enough to get the takedown.  If cain just stays on his toes and counterstrikes he's got a damn good chance of forcing Brock into making mistakes and capitalizing on them, then it would just be a matter of time before we see the best fetal position in all the world.

Absolutely.

BUT if he's been working with a real boxing coach, they should have addressed that issue immediately after the Carwin fight. Plus Cain doesn't have the "heavy handed" reputation Carwin had.

[*ChuteBoxe*]

Absolutely.

BUT if he's been working with a real boxing coach, they should have addressed that issue immediately after the Carwin fight. Plus Cain doesn't have the "heavy handed" reputation Carwin had.

Since boxing is the thing I've been doing longest, I can truly say Brock really dosent have it in him.  His footwork (or lack thereof) is horrendous (along with his path of stance) and hasn't improved one bit since his debut.  He holds his hands way too low, and has almost no head movement to speak of.  There is so many issues to be addressed in regards to Brocks garbage standup I really don't see him fixing any of them period (much less in a few months time).  Cain dosen't hit hard, but Brock is afraid to get hit.  Cain has probably the cleanest technique standing than anybody Brock has ever faced, plus he's got the cardio and the wrestling to boot. 

[Painlayer69]

It's not who he's knock'd out... it who he's stopped by punches.. and that's just about everyone he's fought.   

Cain is overwhelming in his cardio.  He is all over the fighter he fights.  He doesn't give the other fighter the chance to breathe.   He is also scrappy. 

What happened to Carwin WON'T happen to Cain. 

And everyone also said " What happend to mir WONT happen to carwin " When lesnar fights he is condemnd just because of his pro wrestling background. When will you people just shut up and admit that lesnar is REAL and is the true UFC HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION OF THE WORLD??!!!??!!!???