Mr Olympia 1992 screenshots: Dorian, Levrone, Labrada and Ray

[delta9mda]

yeah, dorian looked good in 93. its just too bad he didn't have decent arms.

even pre tear, the left arm is barely there in that shot. no definition at all. just looks soft and blah.

quads aren't so great either. standing next to shawn you can really see how the lack of delineation between the quad muscles hurts him. shawns quads look great.

its an okay shot of dorian but not as great as the nuthuggers think.

a careful eye sees many of the flaws. luckily there are those on this board to point things out to the "out of the loop" nuthuggers LOL

you are fucking retarded special olympics bound hulkster. Yates biceps are blowing shawns out the water. Yates has peak, shawn has football shaped bis, take your pick. Yates arms are way bigger than shawns. shawn has better rectus separation. Yates legs are the same legs in the "new" 95 shot that you are claiming is shopped. Yates is killing shawn here.

[disco_stu]

Looks like Kevin or Lee should have won.

x2. Levrone 1st, Labrada 2nd.

1991 shouldve been Labrada 1st.

[NarcissisticDeity]

you are fucking retarded special olympics bound hulkster. Yates biceps are blowing shawns out the water. Yates has peak, shawn has football shaped bis, take your pick. Yates arms are way bigger than shawns. shawn has better rectus separation. Yates legs are the same legs in the "new" 95 shot that you are claiming is shopped. Yates is killing shawn here.

This shows how stupid he is and how biased he is.

[Danimal77]

Ive stood eye to eye with Cutler... And im 5'9

Either you're a horrible judge of height, or your fooling yourself in thinking you're actually 5'9".

He ain't no 5'9"... Was listed at 5'8.5" for years before he started placing well and even that was an exaggeration. He's never even seen a full 5'8". I'd give him 5'7 3/4". ALL the pros lie about their height. Some more than others. The only ones who don't feel the need to lie are the ones who are legitimately 5'10" and above... All other add anywhere from 1-3" to their height. I'm 5'10" and have met MANY of the pros at the Arnold a couple of years ago and trust me, these guys are short.... Even our former poster boy: BOB CHICKY claims 6'0" and is in reality between 5'9" and 5'10". 6'0.5" (LEGIT) Gunter TOWERED him... Franco Columbo was the same height as 5'2" Danny Padilla, yet claims to have been 5'5". Lee Labrada could hit 5'6" in his wife's high heels. Like Lee Priest he's 5'3" and change. I know it may hurt some people on here to picture their idols being short men, but most are... EVERYONE boosts their height and pros are no exception. As they grow in popularity, so does their listed height. I've seen Flex Wheeler go from 5'8" to 5'10.5". I've seen Levrone go from 5'9" to 5'10". Sir Ronnie Coleman go from 5'10" (for YEARS) to 5'11" when he started making a name for himself in 1995/1996.. I've seen Chris Cormier go from 5'9" to 5'11" and the list invariably goes on... Hell, 5'7" Casey Viator claimed 5'10" and so did Bertil Fox.. It's been a tradition in bodybuilding AND wrestling and now the MMA and UFC as well..

[Danimal77]

This shows how stupid he is and how biased he is.

Won't comment on the former, but as for the latter statement you made, isn't that like calling the kettle black?

[Danimal77]

poor flea. in pose after pose he just loses.

and the nuthuggers are rallying to his cause LOL

With you on this one Hulkster... Lee was small even in comparison to "small guys" from the late 70's/early 80's: Danny Padilla and Mohammed Makkaway... Shawn was vastly superior in almost all aspects of his physique. Sure, Labrada had great presentation, but so did Porter Cotrel and that won him some higher placings too at ONE POINT in his career. Labrada was the leftovers from the OLD generation. Ray was the new and improved guy who began in the old generation, but was bread still in the oven. When Shawn hit his stride, he was one of, if not the best of all time. Labrada was just too diminutive. TOO underwhelming. Classic lines or not, he carried NO size and never even gave the illusion that he did. Something Ray did VERY WELL at next to MUCH bigger guys. Labrada was sinking in 1993 and could never hang with the big boys after that and he KNEW IT. Hence his retirement.

Lastly, Labrada was in an era where he could compete against the big boys from THAT era: Berry Demey, Mike Christian, Bob Paris and even Lee Haney, but no way in hell could he be competitive from 1994 and onwards, against guys like beefed up Dorian, Levrone, Nasser, Dillet, Wheeler.. Shawn could do it and do it with ease...

[NarcissisticDeity]

With you on this one Hulkster... Lee was small even in comparison to "small guys" from the late 70's/early 80's: Danny Padilla and Mohammed Makkaway... Shawn was vastly superior in almost all aspects of his physique. Sure, Labrada had great presentation, but so did Porter Cotrel and that won him some higher placings too at ONE POINT in his career. Labrada was the leftovers from the OLD generation. Ray was the new and improved guy who began in the old generation, but was bread still in the oven. When Shawn hit his stride, he was one of, if not the best of all time. Labrada was just too diminutive. TOO underwhelming. Classic lines or not, he carried NO size and never even gave the illusion that he did. Something Ray did VERY WELL at next to MUCH bigger guys. Labrada was sinking in 1993 and could never hang with the big boys after that and he KNEW IT. Hence his retirement.

Lastly, Labrada was in an era where he could compete against the big boys from THAT era: Berry Demey, Mike Christian, Bob Paris and even Lee Haney, but no way in hell could he be competitive from 1994 and onwards, against guys like beefed up Dorian, Levrone, Nasser, Dillet, Wheeler.. Shawn could do it and do it with ease...

Lee was small even compared to small guys? and? he still won despite this. Shawn was vastly superior is almost all aspects of his physique? my ass he was , Shawn had a host of structural problems you can't find on Lee's physique. Lee was a scaled down version of Bob Paris , he has Shawn in structure , clavicle width , back width , balance & proportion

Shawn was thicker like I said a mini-mass-monster he had small high calves that weren't in proportion with his quads , short legs , long torso narrow clavicles you can't find these issues with Lee. and you look at Ray 1992 Mr Olympia he looks nearly identical to his showings in 1994 , Shawn didn't hit his stride after Lee came along in fact Shawn only gained 8lbs of muscle from the time he turned pro in 1987 to his best showings which were around 205lbs , Shawn competed at 201lbs in 1988 albeit not at his best but right around his ideal weight , we're not talking Ronnie 1992 compared to 1998

Lee was still competitive until the end , 5th place in his last contest and you look at 1993 which is the first time beat Lee , Lee competed in the spring shows and placed second behind Flex at the Arnold & Ironman , Shawn didn't compete in the spring shows if Lee didn't he would have most likely beat Ray again at the Olympia , Lee competed against and beat a lot of big guys from the ' new era ' including Clairmonte , Dillett , Levrone , Harrison , Schimidt , etc

and here's the best part Shawn never won a contest in the ' new era ' either his last win came in 1991 , he was competitive post that but Shawn was a textbook second tier bodybuilder who filled in the spots when the first tier guys were off , Shawn was consistent and professional much like Lee , but out of the two Lee was clearly better his stats and record directly against Shawn proves it.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Won't comment on the former, but as for the latter statement you made, isn't that like calling the kettle black?

not even close , Hulkster stands alone in monumental moronic statements.

[MORTALCOIL]

Lee was small even compared to small guys? and? he still won despite this. Shawn was vastly superior is almost all aspects of his physique? my ass he was , Shawn had a host of structural problems you can't find on Lee's physique. Lee was a scaled down version of Bob Paris , he has Shawn in structure , clavicle width , back width , balance & proportion

Shawn was thicker like I said a mini-mass-monster he had small high calves that weren't in proportion with his quads , short legs , long torso narrow clavicles you can't find these issues with Lee. and you look at Ray 1992 Mr Olympia he looks nearly identical to his showings in 1994 , Shawn didn't hit his stride after Lee came along in fact Shawn only gained 8lbs of muscle from the time he turned pro in 1987 to his best showings which were around 205lbs , Shawn competed at 201lbs in 1988 albeit not at his best but right around his ideal weight , we're not talking Ronnie 1992 compared to 1998

Lee was still competitive until the end , 5th place in his last contest and you look at 1993 which is the first time beat Lee , Lee competed in the spring shows and placed second behind Flex at the Arnold & Ironman , Shawn didn't compete in the spring shows if Lee didn't he would have most likely beat Ray again at the Olympia , Lee competed against and beat a lot of big guys from the ' new era ' including Clairmonte , Dillett , Levrone , Harrison , Schimidt , etc

and here's the best part Shawn never won a contest in the ' new era ' either his last win came in 1991 , he was competitive post that but Shawn was a textbook second tier bodybuilder who filled in the spots when the first tier guys were off , Shawn was consistent and professional much like Lee , but out of the two Lee was clearly better his stats and record directly against Shawn proves it.

Absolutely true. A lot of people think it's just a matter of muscle mass but in that case guys like Fux or Paco would have placed higher than they ever did. Proportions, balance and symmetry are key factors and on all of those Lee beat Shawn steadily. I think Shawn was a fantastic Bber but Lee had a unique physique, the result of a very smart man knowing his potential and his limits and making the best of it. He never had to play the mass game which Shawn did and then would bitch about saying that judges had no other criterias than mass when they should have had a sens of aesthetic, etc....Which was highly hypocritical of him.

[JP_RC]

I think it's hilarious you keep insisting 1993 was their respective bests and it's NOT

Shawn faced Lee four times , lost three , Shawn sucks compared to Lee , Lee won 7 pro shows , Shawn 2 hahahahaha Shawn sucks compared to Lee , Shawn was number 13 on the 20 most aesthetic physiques of all-time Lee was number 4 , Shawn sucks compared to Lee 

Lee is everything Shawn wished he could be

You just out did yourself with this post. "Shawn sucks compared to Lee"   
You seriously must have some serious hate or something against Shawn, is it because he almost beat Dorian in 94?

Shawn faced Lee four times , lost three

Who cares? We are discussing who was better at their respectives best years and its Shawn. Shawn wasn't at his best when he lost to Labrada.

Shawn was number 13 on the 20 most aesthetic physiques of all-time Lee was number 4 , Shawn sucks compared to Lee 

Most aesthetic doesn't mean better. Zane was more aesthetic than Arnold, but was he better than him?

[JP_RC]

Lee beat Shawn 3 out of 4 and spare me Shawn wasn't good enough yet , Shawn was the fucking same for years on end that back double biceps shot I posted 1992 is identical to 1993/1994 yet he was no where near his best my ass 

I see Lee hands down better than Shawn , better symmetry , better aesthetics , better balance , better proportions , equal if not better posing , the only area he's down in his muscular bulk , Shawn is a mini-mass monster with a host a structual flaws that you can't find in Lee

you think Shawn's weaknesses got any better 2 years later?  think again

Lee beat Shawn 3 out of 4 and spare me Shawn wasn't good enough yet , Shawn was the fucking same for years on end that back double biceps shot I posted 1992 is identical to 1993/1994 yet he was no where near his best my ass 

Shawn did make improvements  over the years. His back improved considerably (compare 1991 to 1992) and his conditioning also got better (compare 92 to 93-94). Guess why Shawn beat Labrada in 93.

I see Lee hands down better than Shawn , better symmetry , better aesthetics , better balance , better proportions , equal if not better posing , the only area he's down in his muscular bulk , Shawn is a mini-mass monster with a host a structual flaws that you can't find in Lee

Both are pretty equal in the symmetry and proportions area, you can't say Lee was better. Both were known for having great symmetry and proportionate development. Both had equal posing too.

Now about the structural flaws you're talking about, here is the thing: you always put Shawn down vs Dorian because he was shorter and narrow right? Well, guess who has the advantage in height and width between Shawn and Lee? Its Shawn. And don't start with the whole long torso/short legs thing because that wasn't a problem for Shawn.

And Shawn indeed has the advantage in muscular bulk over Labrada. Couple that with better conditioning and you have Shawn Ray as the winner.

[bodybuilder1234]

Dorians tricep is missing because of the dark shadows and black n white picture, basically takes 1/4 of his arm away.
Someone should brighten it up

[Shockwave]

Dorians tricep is missing because of the dark shadows and black n white picture, basically takes 1/4 of his arm away.
Someone should brighten it up

You can definatley see what youre talking about. Dorians arms in 93 were more than just fine, regardless of what BS Hulkster likes to throw out. Were they a standout bodypart?
No. But they werent a detraction in 93 like Hulkster tries to make everyone think. lol.

[French]

[NarcissisticDeity]

You just out did yourself with this post. "Shawn sucks compared to Lee"   
You seriously must have some serious hate or something against Shawn, is it because he almost beat Dorian in 94?

Who cares? We are discussing who was better at their respectives best years and its Shawn. Shawn wasn't at his best when he lost to Labrada.

Most aesthetic doesn't mean better. Zane was more aesthetic than Arnold, but was he better than him?

You just out did yourself with this post. "Shawn sucks compared to Lee"   
You seriously must have some serious hate or something against Shawn, is it because he almost beat Dorian in 94?

says the guy who claims it's a ' fact ' Shawn is better  I don't hate Shawn I just don't feel he's anywhere near as good as people claim he is. and Shawn almost beat Dorian in 1994? really?  according to whom? the same source that claims it's a ' fact ' Shawn is better than Lee?

There are real facts and then ones people try and erase and claim otherwise. Shawn didn't ' almost ' beat Dorian in 1994 not on paper and not in reality only in the fanciful world of misinformed ignorant fanboys on the internet was Shawn ' almost ' beating Dorian in 1994 because in fact Shawn was gifted second place over Kevin Levrone who he was actually behind in points after the prejudging , Shawn was NO WHERE near Dorian in 1994 only misinformed ignorant people claim otherwise

Who cares? We are discussing who was better at their respectives best years and its Shawn. Shawn wasn't at his best when he lost to Labrada.

actually NO we're not discussing who was better at their respective bests , I was proving my point that Lee beat Shawn more times than Shawn beat him. Hulkster the crybaby hates facts so he attempted to change it because ' Shawn was no where neat his best ' which is more bullshit because Shawn 1992 and Shawn 1994 are nearly identical and Shawn only beat Lee in 1993 because Lee competed in the spring shows and Shawn's only contest was the Olympia , if Lee didn't compete in early shows he would have beaten Shawn AGAIN as usual

and look at the caption from the 1992 Mr Olympia ' Shawn was in the best shape of his life '

Most aesthetic doesn't mean better. Zane was more aesthetic than Arnold, but was he better than him?

yes in 1968 when Frank beat him 

[NarcissisticDeity]

Shawn did make improvements  over the years. His back improved considerably (compare 1991 to 1992) and his conditioning also got better (compare 92 to 93-94). Guess why Shawn beat Labrada in 93.

Both are pretty equal in the symmetry and proportions area, you can't say Lee was better. Both were known for having great symmetry and proportionate development. Both had equal posing too.

Now about the structural flaws you're talking about, here is the thing: you always put Shawn down vs Dorian because he was shorter and narrow right? Well, guess who has the advantage in height and width between Shawn and Lee? Its Shawn. And don't start with the whole long torso/short legs thing because that wasn't a problem for Shawn.

And Shawn indeed has the advantage in muscular bulk over Labrada. Couple that with better conditioning and you have Shawn Ray as the winner.

Shawn did make improvements  over the years. His back improved considerably (compare 1991 to 1992) and his conditioning also got better (compare 92 to 93-94). Guess why Shawn beat Labrada in 93.

no he didn't he gained 8 lbs since turning pro , his ' improvements ' weren't in size his conditioning did get better and his back ' improved considerably ' 91-92 how? Dorian's back improved considerably from 91-93 to make that claim  without A) backing up the claim and B) by overstating his improvements really doesn't hold any weight

and I'll tell you exactly why Shawn beat Lee in 1993 because................. ...........Lee competed in the 1993 Arnold and Ironman and didn't quite replicate his early showings , Shawn didn't compete in anything but the Olympia , Lee was off ( slightly ) and Shawn was on that's the only reason Shawn finally beat Lee for ONCE it wasn't because he made some ' considerable improvements ' either

Both are pretty equal in the symmetry and proportions area, you can't say Lee was better. Both were known for having great symmetry and proportionate development. Both had equal posing too.

no they absolutely are NOT pretty equal , go back to the drawing board. I can't say Lee was better? I beg to differ , Lee's calves match his quads with better proportion than Shawn's do , Shawn had small high calves and oversized quads ontop of having short legs , Lee does NOT. Lee had a better natural structure , he had wider clavicles , he has a wider back ( relative to his frame ) his whole physique is more aligned with the classic physiques of Bob Paris , Frank Zane and Steve Reeves , Shawn's isn't.

as far as posing I think both are pretty equal

Now about the structural flaws you're talking about, here is the thing: you always put Shawn down vs Dorian because he was shorter and narrow right? Well, guess who has the advantage in height and width between Shawn and Lee? Its Shawn. And don't start with the whole long torso/short legs thing because that wasn't a problem for Shawn.

Shawn has NO advantage in width over Lee that's fantasy , Shawn has narrow clavicles that's never an advantage. the height isn't a factor Lee is 5'6" and Shawn 5'7" did you even bother to check? and yes Shawn has a long torso and short legs I know you hate hearing that but it doesn't change that fact   Lee is ONE INCH shorter and his physique is more balanced better upper & lower he doesn't have short legs and a long torso like Shawn or Priest or Levrone and Nasser

And Shawn indeed has the advantage in muscular bulk over Labrada. Couple that with better conditioning and you have Shawn Ray as the winner.

muscular bulk? absolutely , better conditioning? HA and you came to this conclusion how? ( you have a bad habit or just claiming things ) Lee's conditioning was top-notch at his best , and as usual you like to omit the rest of the criteria don't forget balance & proportion , the ONLY advantage Shawn has is muscular bulk then again Shawn was always heavier than Lee and consistently lost I wonder why?  

[NarcissisticDeity]

Lee as usual looked outstandiing.

[JP_RC]

says the guy who claims it's a ' fact ' Shawn is better  I don't hate Shawn I just don't feel he's anywhere near as good as people claim he is. and Shawn almost beat Dorian in 1994? really?  according to whom? the same source that claims it's a ' fact ' Shawn is better than Lee?

There are real facts and then ones people try and erase and claim otherwise. Shawn didn't ' almost ' beat Dorian in 1994 not on paper and not in reality only in the fanciful world of misinformed ignorant fanboys on the internet was Shawn ' almost ' beating Dorian in 1994 because in fact Shawn was gifted second place over Kevin Levrone who he was actually behind in points after the prejudging , Shawn was NO WHERE near Dorian in 1994 only misinformed ignorant people claim otherwise

actually NO we're not discussing who was better at their respective bests , I was proving my point that Lee beat Shawn more times than Shawn beat him. Hulkster the crybaby hates facts so he attempted to change it because ' Shawn was no where neat his best ' which is more bullshit because Shawn 1992 and Shawn 1994 are nearly identical and Shawn only beat Lee in 1993 because Lee competed in the spring shows and Shawn's only contest was the Olympia , if Lee didn't compete in early shows he would have beaten Shawn AGAIN as usual

and look at the caption from the 1992 Mr Olympia ' Shawn was in the best shape of his life '

yes in 1968 when Frank beat him 

says the guy who claims it's a ' fact ' Shawn is better   I don't hate Shawn I just don't feel he's anywhere near as good as people claim he is. and Shawn almost beat Dorian in 1994? really?   according to whom? the same source that claims it's a ' fact ' Shawn is better than Lee?

There are real facts and then ones people try and erase and claim otherwise. Shawn didn't ' almost ' beat Dorian in 1994 not on paper and not in reality only in the fanciful world of misinformed ignorant fanboys on the internet was Shawn ' almost ' beating Dorian in 1994 because in fact Shawn was gifted second place over Kevin Levrone who he was actually behind in points after the prejudging , Shawn was NO WHERE near Dorian in 1994 only misinformed ignorant people claim otherwise

Really, Shawn was gifted second place over Levrone? According to you, the judges or the score sheets? That's all that matters right?
Fact is Shawn was second in 94 and he was close to Dorian. I've read that almost everyone back then were thinking Shawn had it going into the night show. Even Weider himself gave Shawn his "blessing" saying he was going to win, couple that with the fact 94 is one of the most controversial contests ever still being discussed to these days then its understandable to say 94 was close.

Shawn was no where neat his best ' which is more bullshit because Shawn 1992 and Shawn 1994 are nearly identical and Shawn only beat Lee in 1993 because Lee competed in the spring shows and Shawn's only contest was the Olympia , if Lee didn't compete in early shows he would have beaten Shawn AGAIN as usual

and look at the caption from the 1992 Mr Olympia ' Shawn was in the best shape of his life '

If Lee hadn't competed in the early shows he would've beaten Shawn as usual? Says you, but the thing is he didn't, because Shawn was better than 92.
Shawn in 92 and 94 are not identical, the main  difference was his conditioning.
Yes, the caption said "Shawn was in the best shape of his life" because that was written before the 94 O.
So Shawn got into his best shape up to that point in time (1992), but then got in even better shape for 93-94.

yes in 1968 when Frank beat him  

Good one, but Arnold wasn't near his best then.  

[JP_RC]

no he didn't he gained 8 lbs since turning pro , his ' improvements ' weren't in size his conditioning did get better and his back ' improved considerably ' 91-92 how? Dorian's back improved considerably from 91-93 to make that claim  without A) backing up the claim and B) by overstating his improvements really doesn't hold any weight

and I'll tell you exactly why Shawn beat Lee in 1993 because................. ...........Lee competed in the 1993 Arnold and Ironman and didn't quite replicate his early showings , Shawn didn't compete in anything but the Olympia , Lee was off ( slightly ) and Shawn was on that's the only reason Shawn finally beat Lee for ONCE it wasn't because he made some ' considerable improvements ' either

no they absolutely are NOT pretty equal , go back to the drawing board. I can't say Lee was better? I beg to differ , Lee's calves match his quads with better proportion than Shawn's do , Shawn had small high calves and oversized quads ontop of having short legs , Lee does NOT. Lee had a better natural structure , he had wider clavicles , he has a wider back ( relative to his frame ) his whole physique is more aligned with the classic physiques of Bob Paris , Frank Zane and Steve Reeves , Shawn's isn't.

as far as posing I think both are pretty equal

Shawn has NO advantage in width over Lee that's fantasy , Shawn has narrow clavicles that's never an advantage. the height isn't a factor Lee is 5'6" and Shawn 5'7" did you even bother to check? and yes Shawn has a long torso and short legs I know you hate hearing that but it doesn't change that fact   Lee is ONE INCH shorter and his physique is more balanced better upper & lower he doesn't have short legs and a long torso like Shawn or Priest or Levrone and Nasser

muscular bulk? absolutely , better conditioning? HA and you came to this conclusion how? ( you have a bad habit or just claiming things ) Lee's conditioning was top-notch at his best , and as usual you like to omit the rest of the criteria don't forget balance & proportion , the ONLY advantage Shawn has is muscular bulk then again Shawn was always heavier than Lee and consistently lost I wonder why?  

no he didn't he gained 8 lbs since turning pro , his ' improvements ' weren't in size his conditioning did get better and his back ' improved considerably ' 91-92 how? Dorian's back improved considerably from 91-93 to make that claim  without A) backing up the claim and B) by overstating his improvements really doesn't hold any weight

I didn't know the exact amount of lbs he gained after turning pro, but he did improve his back because: he said so himself and it shows when you look at the pics and videos. And his conditioning definitively improved and was a but better in 93-94 than 92.

and I'll tell you exactly why Shawn beat Lee in 1993 because................. ...........Lee competed in the 1993 Arnold and Ironman and didn't quite replicate his early showings , Shawn didn't compete in anything but the Olympia , Lee was off ( slightly ) and Shawn was on that's the only reason Shawn finally beat Lee for ONCE it wasn't because he made some ' considerable improvements ' either

That could be a reason, but its just an excuse. I can go in the same direction and say that Lee beat Shawn previously because Shawn wasn't at his best. Its the same ball game, the thing is who was better at their respective best.

no they absolutely are NOT pretty equal , go back to the drawing board. I can't say Lee was better? I beg to differ , Lee's calves match his quads with better proportion than Shawn's do , Shawn had small high calves and oversized quads ontop of having short legs , Lee does NOT. Lee had a better natural structure , he had wider clavicles , he has a wider back ( relative to his frame ) his whole physique is more aligned with the classic physiques of Bob Paris , Frank Zane and Steve Reeves , Shawn's isn't.

I honestly don't get what you see, I see them equal in the symmetry and proportion area. I don't see Lee's calves matching his upper legs much better than Shawn's did. Shawn's calves were high, but not small. Lee had a better structure? I don't know.

Shawn has NO advantage in width over Lee that's fantasy , Shawn has narrow clavicles that's never an advantage. the height isn't a factor Lee is 5'6" and Shawn 5'7" did you even bother to check? and yes Shawn has a long torso and short legs I know you hate hearing that but it doesn't change that fact  Lee is ONE INCH shorter and his physique is more balanced better upper & lower he doesn't have short legs and a long torso like Shawn or Priest or Levrone and Nasser

Lee's clavicles aren't wider than Shawn's clavicles. Both of them have good clavicle width relative to their respective height and size. Look at Lee Priest, Phil Heath, and Levrone those are examples of narrow clavicle relative to height/size.
And we can disagree on the long torso/short legs on Shawn, compare his pics to Priest or Nasser and its a big difference. That's why I think that for his height Shawn doesn't have that problem.

muscular bulk? absolutely , better conditioning? HA and you came to this conclusion how? ( you have a bad habit or just claiming things ) Lee's conditioning was top-notch at his best , and as usual you like to omit the rest of the criteria don't forget balance & proportion , the ONLY advantage Shawn has is muscular bulk then again Shawn was always heavier than Lee and consistently lost I wonder why? 

Shawn only lost to Lee when his conditioning wasn't at its best. To me Shawn had better conditioning than Lee at his best (93-94).

[Ex Coelis]

quit living in the past

[NarcissisticDeity]

Really, Shawn was gifted second place over Levrone? According to you, the judges or the score sheets? That's all that matters right?
Fact is Shawn was second in 94 and he was close to Dorian. I've read that almost everyone back then were thinking Shawn had it going into the night show. Even Weider himself gave Shawn his "blessing" saying he was going to win, couple that with the fact 94 is one of the most controversial contests ever still being discussed to these days then its understandable to say 94 was close.

If Lee hadn't competed in the early shows he would've beaten Shawn as usual? Says you, but the thing is he didn't, because Shawn was better than 92.
Shawn in 92 and 94 are not identical, the main  difference was his conditioning.
Yes, the caption said "Shawn was in the best shape of his life" because that was written before the 94 O.
So Shawn got into his best shape up to that point in time (1992), but then got in even better shape for 93-94.

Good one, but Arnold wasn't near his best then.  

Really, Shawn was gifted second place over Levrone? According to you, the judges or the score sheets? That's all that matters right?
Fact is Shawn was second in 94 and he was close to Dorian. I've read that almost everyone back then were thinking Shawn had it going into the night show. Even Weider himself gave Shawn his "blessing" saying he was going to win, couple that with the fact 94 is one of the most controversial contests ever still being discussed to these days then its understandable to say 94 was close.

NO let's toss out anything that happen and just base it all on what we think should have happened or what we would have liked to happen   yes according to the judges scorecards Shawn was trailing Kevin , if you want to toss out the judges you do that I'll go by what happened not what I would have liked to happen

there you go again making up facts NO Shawn was ' not close to Dorian ' that's fantasy and if you have anything of value to back up your claim fee free to post it. and everyone back then was thinking Shawn had it? really? I guess Shawn didn't get the memo  

quote Shawn Ray Flex Jan 1995 " Tonight I feel I got what I deserved "


Shawn didn't think so and none of his other contemporaries did either

quote Flex Jan 1995 " Let it be recorded tthat in the immediate aftermath of the contest , none of his closest rivals even hinted that Yates did not deserve to win . "


quote Flex Jan 1995 " As Yates , Levrone and Ray stood onstage , the reiging champ ( cognizant of 1992 ) told Levrone " Looks like it's you and me again " Mr Olympia got it wrong , and the booing deciblel dwarfed that accorded the Dillet announcement as Kevin Levrone was called out in third "

Dorian sure didn't think Shawn was close.

94 is NOT one of the most ' controversial ' Olympias , 1980/1981/2001 all beat it hands down check this list http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0KFY/is_12_23/ai_n16034008/pg_2/ NOT one single mention of 1994   and it's talked about on message boards because people favor Shawn over Yates has noting to do with facts.

but you are partially right 1994 was a close contest ....................betw een second and third

Kevin has it all but was a little soft in prejudging , which hurt him. He wasn't quite as sharp as Shawn , but it was very close between second and third. It came down to the posedown ( Which Shawn won by a single point ).


Shawn only beat Kevin by one single point and both were NO WHERE near Dorian

quote Ironman Jan 1995 " The battle was between Shawn and Kevin for second "

old news

so keep trying to rewrite history and I will keep teaching it.

If Lee hadn't competed in the early shows he would've beaten Shawn as usual? Says you, but the thing is he didn't, because Shawn was better than 92.
Shawn in 92 and 94 are not identical, the main  difference was his conditioning.
Yes, the caption said "Shawn was in the best shape of his life" because that was written before the 94 O.
So Shawn got into his best shape up to that point in time (1992), but then got in even better shape for 93-94.

yes says me , Lee was slightly off NO coincidence Shawn beat him , it's no stretch to think if Lee hadn't competed in the spring shows he would have beat Shawn AGAIN ,  I have the 1992/1994 Olympia on video and the is NO difference in conditioning or size if Shawn is better in 1994 it's negligible not even worth mentioning he looks just as good same in 1993 was well , that was one of his criticisms he never really improved over his career that he was just consistent , when he tried to play the size-game ( 215lbs ) his conditioning suffered for it.

Good one, but Arnold wasn't near his best then.  

true but the point as Lee's only down size to Shawn and that's it.

[NarcissisticDeity]

I didn't know the exact amount of lbs he gained after turning pro, but he did improve his back because: he said so himself and it shows when you look at the pics and videos. And his conditioning definitively improved and was a but better in 93-94 than 92.

That could be a reason, but its just an excuse. I can go in the same direction and say that Lee beat Shawn previously because Shawn wasn't at his best. Its the same ball game, the thing is who was better at their respective best.

I honestly don't get what you see, I see them equal in the symmetry and proportion area. I don't see Lee's calves matching his upper legs much better than Shawn's did. Shawn's calves were high, but not small. Lee had a better structure? I don't know.

Lee's clavicles aren't wider than Shawn's clavicles. Both of them have good clavicle width relative to their respective height and size. Look at Lee Priest, Phil Heath, and Levrone those are examples of narrow clavicle relative to height/size.
And we can disagree on the long torso/short legs on Shawn, compare his pics to Priest or Nasser and its a big difference. That's why I think that for his height Shawn doesn't have that problem.

Shawn only lost to Lee when his conditioning wasn't at its best. To me Shawn had better conditioning than Lee at his best (93-94).

I didn't know the exact amount of lbs he gained after turning pro, but he did improve his back because: he said so himself and it shows when you look at the pics and videos. And his conditioning definitively improved and was a but better in 93-94 than 92.

now you're amending your original statement of his back ' improved considerably ' how does one do that by not adding any size what so ever?  I have all of the videos you mentioned I don't see any considerable or noteworthy change in conditioning between the years if and that's entertaining your point it was it was negligible and not like Ronnie 97/98

That could be a reason, but its just an excuse. I can go in the same direction and say that Lee beat Shawn previously because Shawn wasn't at his best. Its the same ball game, the thing is who was better at their respective best.

I'm making no excuses just point out facts , Shawn had to peak once Lee three times MUCH harder to do three times , Shawn had only competed at the Olympia in 1992 as did Lee we all know the end result of that contest , the thing is Lee consistently beat Shawn this much we know for a fact.

I honestly don't get what you see, I see them equal in the symmetry and proportion area. I don't see Lee's calves matching his upper legs much better than Shawn's did. Shawn's calves were high, but not small. Lee had a better structure? I don't know.

needless to say I disagree

Lee's clavicles aren't wider than Shawn's clavicles. Both of them have good clavicle width relative to their respective height and size. Look at Lee Priest, Phil Heath, and Levrone those are examples of narrow clavicle relative to height/size.
And we can disagree on the long torso/short legs on Shawn, compare his pics to Priest or Nasser and its a big difference. That's why I think that for his height Shawn doesn't have that problem.

Again I disagree I think it's night-and-day between clavicle width , which when anyone brings up Shawn's flaws they will comment on this , never the case for Lee.

the limb length toso length issue is more noticeable on taller guys like Levrone and Nasser , Lee is more pronounced because his lats don't insert as low as Shawn's but it doesn't change the fact.  even if entertaining your point of view the torso/leg length were the same , the proportion between the calves & quads aren't , and neither are the discrepancy between Shawn's oversized arms in relation to his torso and his narrow clavicles so he still has issues that Lee does not

Shawn only lost to Lee when his conditioning wasn't at its best. To me Shawn had better conditioning than Lee at his best (93-94).

Shawn's conditioning was great in 1992 and it usually was spot-on he was consistently in shape and the only exceptions when he tried to add more size then you can see a discrepancy worth mentioning. and at his best Shawn's conditioning might be equal to Lee's who is no slouch in conditioning.

[Jaime]

Lee looks unbelievable there. I'm a fan of Ray's physique but i think Lee has a better structure and lines.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Lee looks unbelievable there. I'm a fan of Ray's physique but i think Lee has a better structure and lines.

smart man 

[Danimal77]

Shawn has NO advantage in width over Lee that's fantasy , Shawn has narrow clavicles that's never an advantage. the height isn't a factor Lee is 5'6" and Shawn 5'7" did you even bother to check?

Wrong. That were their BILLED heights. Shawn had a cool 2" on Lee (not just one) and Shawn was a legit 5'6" at best. He claimed this height for himself earlier on in his career. Lee Labrada at 5'6" is just plain wrong. Do you see Kevin Levrone having had a mere 3" on him? 5'5" Francis Benfatto had at least 1-2" on him.. Lee was MAX 5'4" and in reality, probably shy of that....