So it's pretty darn clear that you guys blame Islam as a whole for 9/11

[Hugo Chavez]

I'm just curious, are you mad at Bush for not clearly going after Islam after 9/11?  Or do you think that's what they were doing while trying to make it look otherwise for PR reasons.  There's been one constant theme from those who are anti Islam here.  Which is there is no difference between Islam and radical Islam.  So clearly you must think that Islam should have been the target from day one after 9/11?

[Cy Tolliver]

I'm just curious, are you mad at Bush for not clearly going after Islam after 9/11?  Or do you think that's what they were doing while trying to make it look otherwise for PR reasons.  There's been one constant theme from those who are anti Islam here.  Which is there is no difference between Islam and radical Islam.  So clearly you must think that Islam should have been the target from day one after 9/11?

good questions

what about ksa-tricep hes a muslim and look how nice he is

[Arnold jr]

I'm just curious, are you mad at Bush for not clearly going after Islam after 9/11?  Or do you think that's what they were doing while trying to make it look otherwise for PR reasons.  There's been one constant theme from those who are anti Islam here.  Which is there is no difference between Islam and radical Islam.  So clearly you must think that Islam should have been the target from day one after 9/11?

I can't speak for everyone...obviously...b ut I think my sentiment is generally held by many. It's not "Anti-Islam" no one really cares if someone wants to be Islamic or any other religion. It's anti-terrorist, anti-transforming America, anti-idiots and it just so happens that those who are the terrorist, transforming idiots are Muslims.

I'm sure there are people who say "I'm a Muslim" and are in no way a threat to anyone, that's fine, great but that doesn't change the fact that our biggest enemy, the common theme they all carry is they are Muslims, the whole stem of their hate is built around and based on them being Muslims, that is the foundation.

[Hugo Chavez]

I can't speak for everyone...obviously...b ut I think my sentiment is generally held by many. It's not "Anti-Islam" no one really cares if someone wants to be Islamic or any other religion. It's anti-terrorist, anti-transforming America, anti-idiots and it just so happens that those who are the terrorist, transforming idiots are Muslims.

I'm sure there are people who say "I'm a Muslim" and are in no way a threat to anyone, that's fine, great but that doesn't change the fact that our biggest enemy, the common theme they all carry is they are Muslims, the whole stem of their hate is built around and based on them being Muslims, that is the foundation.

well, from everything I've read, you sure can't speak for the anti muslim posters here lol....  They make it a big point to attack the religion as a whole, the religion as the enabling force.  And they might be right about that.  They quote all sorts of shit from the quran that seems to back it up.  I just want to know from these people if they feel we should have directly targeted the religion from the start or if they feel that's what we've been doing all along?

[George Whorewell]

I blame Islam and I blame the leftists in this country for ignoring, enabling, playcating and legitimizing a fanatical religion that preaches death, hate and anti- Americanism wherever it is located.

The religion itself was founded on violence. Its spiritual leader was a violent sociopath who openly engaged in war against those who refused to convert to his gutter religion. When they refused he either let them live provided that they agreed to pay money for the privilege or he butchered his enimies. It's funny that this is never mentioned in any religious text book, history book or taught in any classroom in this country. So of course, it is natural that a religion that was founded on violence by a violent human being would breed an endless army of violent followers.

Every religion has its flaws and every religion has its nut cases. But this is true of all people in all places regardless of whether they believe in God or not. The American left and their network of moral relativist jelly fish take this concept and stretch it to its breaking point. Christianity acknowleges wholeheartedly that it has done some terrible things in the name of God. Jews (the few left alive at this point) have done the same. But Islam, a religion that by any logical measure is the biggest threat to civilized and secular society (TODAY- RIGHT NOW- AT THIS MOMENT) always seems to get a soft reprimand where any and all references to it's obvious gravitation toward extremism ends with a BUT... or ONLY IF.. and the main culprit always seems to be United States foreign policy or Israel.


If your aim is to stop crime, you dedicate your resources to the areas that have the most criminals. If you are fighting a war to win, you seek out the enemy where he is most abundant. Call it a war on Islam, and I have no problem with that. If Islam would police itself and reign in the allegedly small percentage of its radical adherents, there would be no need for the United States to be so proactive. But until then, we should be at war with this culture and ideology on any and all fronts possible. From the court of public opinion, to the court of law, to the battle field-- wherever it may be.  

[Soul Crusher]

Great post GW

[Hugo Chavez]

I blame Islam and I blame the leftists in this country for ignoring, enabling, playcating and legitimizing a fanatical religion that preaches death, hate and anti- Americanism wherever it is located.

The religion itself was founded on violence. Its spiritual leader was a violent sociopath who openly engaged in war against those who refused to convert to his gutter religion. When they refused he either let them live provided that they agreed to pay money for the privilege or he butchered his enimies. It's funny that this is never mentioned in any religious text book, history book or taught in any classroom in this country. So of course, it is natural that a religion that was founded on violence by a violent human being would breed an endless army of violent followers.

Every religion has its flaws and every religion has its nut cases. But this is true of all people in all places regardless of whether they believe in God or not. The American left and their network of moral relativist jelly fish take this concept and stretch it to its breaking point. Christianity acknowleges wholeheartedly that it has done some terrible things in the name of God. Jews (the few left alive at this point) have done the same. But Islam, a religion that by any logical measure is the biggest threat to civilized and secular society (TODAY- RIGHT NOW- AT THIS MOMENT) always seems to get a soft reprimand where any and all references to it's obvious gravitation toward extremism ends with a BUT... or ONLY IF.. and the main culprit always seems to be United States foreign policy or Israel.


If your aim is to stop crime, you dedicate your resources to the areas that have the most criminals. If you are fighting a war to win, you seek out the enemy where he is most abundant. Call it a war on Islam, and I have no problem with that. If Islam would police itself and reign in the allegedly small percentage of its radical adherents, there would be no need for the United States to be so proactive. But until then, we should be at war with this culture and ideology on any and all fronts possible. From the court of public opinion, to the court of law, to the battle field-- wherever it may be.  

I'm reading then that you do think it's a war on Islam and should have been from the start?  just correlating your reply with my question.  it seems like you hedged a bit so i'm asking.

[The Showstoppa]

I blame Islam and I blame the leftists in this country for ignoring, enabling, playcating and legitimizing a fanatical religion that preaches death, hate and anti- Americanism wherever it is located.

The religion itself was founded on violence. Its spiritual leader was a violent sociopath who openly engaged in war against those who refused to convert to his gutter religion. When they refused he either let them live provided that they agreed to pay money for the privilege or he butchered his enimies. It's funny that this is never mentioned in any religious text book, history book or taught in any classroom in this country. So of course, it is natural that a religion that was founded on violence by a violent human being would breed an endless army of violent followers.

Every religion has its flaws and every religion has its nut cases. But this is true of all people in all places regardless of whether they believe in God or not. The American left and their network of moral relativist jelly fish take this concept and stretch it to its breaking point. Christianity acknowleges wholeheartedly that it has done some terrible things in the name of God. Jews (the few left alive at this point) have done the same. But Islam, a religion that by any logical measure is the biggest threat to civilized and secular society (TODAY- RIGHT NOW- AT THIS MOMENT) always seems to get a soft reprimand where any and all references to it's obvious gravitation toward extremism ends with a BUT... or ONLY IF.. and the main culprit always seems to be United States foreign policy or Israel.


If your aim is to stop crime, you dedicate your resources to the areas that have the most criminals. If you are fighting a war to win, you seek out the enemy where he is most abundant. Call it a war on Islam, and I have no problem with that. If Islam would police itself and reign in the allegedly small percentage of its radical adherents, there would be no need for the United States to be so proactive. But until then, we should be at war with this culture and ideology on any and all fronts possible. From the court of public opinion, to the court of law, to the battle field-- wherever it may be.  

x2

[Hugo Chavez]

x2

it was a good post, I would say I'm not sure sure christians are willing to admit their past offences as GW said.  In all my encounters, they usually dance around it and just brush it off to not counting because it happened long before they were born.  That's usually the way it progresses here on getbig too.

[The Showstoppa]

it was a good post, I would say I'm not sure sure christians are willing to admit their past offences as GW said.  In all my encounters, they usually dance around it and just brush it off to not counting because it happened long before they were born.  That's usually the way it progresses here on getbig too.

I will agree with you on that.  It sure never be dismissed offhand, lest we forget the lessons of the past.  I think the reason many Christians react that way is because the people pointing it out will just use the past violence as a way to "justify" the current violence of the muslim religion, so they got overly defensive on the subject.  If that makes sense...

[tonymctones]

I will agree with you on that.  It sure never be dismissed offhand, lest we forget the lessons of the past.  I think the reason many Christians react that way is because the people pointing it out will just use the past violence as a way to "justify" the current violence of the muslim religion, so they got overly defensive on the subject.  If that makes sense...

LOL this, while it is a valid point it is not a valid point in the context that it is brought up...this is like liberals saying well bush did this and bush did that in response to obama being criticized...

[James]

I blame Islam and I blame the leftists in this country for ignoring, enabling, playcating and legitimizing a fanatical religion that preaches death, hate and anti- Americanism wherever it is located.

The religion itself was founded on violence. Its spiritual leader was a violent sociopath who openly engaged in war against those who refused to convert to his gutter religion. When they refused he either let them live provided that they agreed to pay money for the privilege or he butchered his enimies. It's funny that this is never mentioned in any religious text book, history book or taught in any classroom in this country. So of course, it is natural that a religion that was founded on violence by a violent human being would breed an endless army of violent followers.

Every religion has its flaws and every religion has its nut cases. But this is true of all people in all places regardless of whether they believe in God or not. The American left and their network of moral relativist jelly fish take this concept and stretch it to its breaking point. Christianity acknowleges wholeheartedly that it has done some terrible things in the name of God. Jews (the few left alive at this point) have done the same. But Islam, a religion that by any logical measure is the biggest threat to civilized and secular society (TODAY- RIGHT NOW- AT THIS MOMENT) always seems to get a soft reprimand where any and all references to it's obvious gravitation toward extremism ends with a BUT... or ONLY IF.. and the main culprit always seems to be United States foreign policy or Israel.


If your aim is to stop crime, you dedicate your resources to the areas that have the most criminals. If you are fighting a war to win, you seek out the enemy where he is most abundant. Call it a war on Islam, and I have no problem with that. If Islam would police itself and reign in the allegedly small percentage of its radical adherents, there would be no need for the United States to be so proactive. But until then, we should be at war with this culture and ideology on any and all fronts possible. From the court of public opinion, to the court of law, to the battle field-- wherever it may be.  

I agree with this 100%.

[Hugo Chavez]

I agree with this 100%.

James, that's cool and all but by chance can you give a direct answer to my question?  I mean so far everyone just agrees with GW.  It was a good post but didn't come right out and firmly state an answer.  Do you think we should have been at war with Islam from the start?

[tonymctones]

hugo I dont think we are at war with islam, I certainly think that there are certain groups who are islamic that are at war with us and to deny it or dance around it like obama does is plain disingenious.

Although I will say that the sentiment is understandable b/c like ive said for years now there is a hisitancy of those non radicals to condemn the radicals. If you sit there and dont condemn them, then you leave the door open for ppl to project their views on to you rightly or wrongly.

a islamic organization is coming out with a commercial that condemns terrorism etc...has islamist who lost friends and loved ones on 9/11 talking about coming together...

Where was this commercial 9 years ago? where was any notable organization, rally, march, get together of any kind put together by muslims for muslim to condemn radical islam?

well like I said dont just sit there and then complain about the outcome.

[Fury]

Why the fuck wouldn't we blame Islam for 9/11? The fucking guys who carried out the attack have acknowledged it was done because of Islam!

[James]

I think the muslim religion is a religion of hate, a religion of control, and a religion that teaches if followers not to assimilate. Many Countries in Europe are changing right in front of us, and it is because many people were too complacent when these muslims demanded changes, and I feel that America will eventually follow this same path unless people wake up to what is happening. Just like the many Germans that sat in silence while Hitler did what he did. People need to understand the true dangers that we are facing in allowing muslims to immigrate to new Countries and demand the citizens of that Country change for them, to allow Sharia law, change to accept them) before it is too late. If you want to immigrate to a new Country, you must accept the ways of each country, and not just migrate so that you can prosper financially.

[Fury]

I think the muslim religion is a religion of hate, a religion of control, and a religion that teaches if followers not to assimilate. Many Countries in Europe are being changing right in front of us, and it is because many people were too complacent when these muslims demanded changes, and I feel that America will eventually follow this same path unless people wake up to what is happening. Just like the many Germans that sat in silence while Hitler did what he did. People need to understand the true dangers that we are facing in allowing muslims to immigrate to new Countries and demand the citizens of that Country change, to allow Sharia law, change to accept them) before it is too late. If you want to immigrate to a new Country, you must accept the ways of each country, and not just migrate so that you can prosper financially.

While the European politicians are nothing more than appeasing dhimmi trash, the European people are slowly waking up. Geert Wilders, whose entire platform is built around anti-Islam, absolutely murdered it in the last Dutch elections. Angela Merkel and other Germans are finally acknowledging that Muslims are not assimilating into their society and that youth violence is a problem. France seems to be taking baby-steps towards the problem with things like banning the hijab (they're still appeasing them on other fronts). 97% of Austrians have a negative opinion of the word "Islam". England, however, is a lost cause.

[Hugo Chavez]

I think the muslim religion is a religion of hate, a religion of control, and a religion that teaches if followers not to assimilate. Many Countries in Europe are being changed right in front of us, and it is because many people were too complacent when these muslims demanded changes, and I feel that America will eventually follow this same path unless people wake up to what is happening. Just like the many Germans that sat in silence while Hitler did what he did. People need to understand the true dangers that we are facing in allowing muslims to immigrate to new Countries and demand the citizens of that Country change, to allow Sharia law, change to accept them) before it is too late. If you want to immigrate to a new Country, you must accept the ways of each country, and not just migrate so that you can prosper financially.

Ok, even that fucktard troll BF came up with a direct answer.  I appreciate your opinion stated, but do you have a direct answer to my question or not?  I'm just busting balls but do you have a direct answer? Go ahead and spit it out directly man   I'm didn't start this thread to set anyone up.  There is no "ah ha, but" at the end...

[tonymctones]

hugo I dont think we are at war with islam, I certainly think that there are certain groups who are islamic that are at war with us and to deny it or dance around it like obama does is plain disingenious.

Although I will say that the sentiment is understandable b/c like ive said for years now there is a hisitancy of those non radicals to condemn the radicals. If you sit there and dont condemn them, then you leave the door open for ppl to project their views on to you rightly or wrongly.

a islamic organization is coming out with a commercial that condemns terrorism etc...has islamist who lost friends and loved ones on 9/11 talking about coming together...

Where was this commercial 9 years ago? where was any notable organization, rally, march, get together of any kind put together by muslims for muslim to condemn radical islam?

well like I said dont just sit there and then complain about the outcome.

here is a direct answer huggy

now do you agree that the muslim community itself is also to blame for this seeing as they dont condemn other muslims?

[Hugo Chavez]

here is a direct answer huggy

now do you agree that the muslim community itself is also to blame for this seeing as they dont condemn other muslims?

I have no intention of being an advocate for Islam.  I did see your direct answer, sorry I didn't reply, I was just trying to nail down others who didn't give a direct reply.

I will say I'm a bit confused by your words.  On one hand you do blame radical muslims while saying we are not and should not(?) be at war with Islam.  On the other hand, you tie them all together as accomplices? Officially The United States views accomplices to be just as guilty.  So in your question to me, you suggest they are.  So I'll ask you again, should we have been at war with Islam from the start?

[Hugo Chavez]

here is a direct answer huggy

When I change my name from Hugo, I think I'll go with Huggy lol...

[Hugo Chavez]

also a reminder of the original question:  It's not are we at war with Islam, I'm asking should we have been at war with Islam from the start.  I also asked if you were mad at bush but I'm more interested in wether you think we should have gone after Islam right away.  I sense people are a bit leary of giving a direct answer to this question.  I don't know why considering what is said on the board daily.

[Fury]

I posted this in another thread the other day but it's fitting for this one, too.


The trouble with the whole Islam debate is that people persist in mistakenly describing Islam as a religion. Instead, it comprises three components:

1) Religion
2) Government
3) Military

With the first component being a front for the other two. The overarching goal of Islam and Muslims, as dictated in the infallible words of the Koran, is to establish a global caliphate where everyone is subjected to Sharia Law. This is a fact. This is what the Koran dictates. This is what it commands Muslims to go out and accomplish. This is what groups like Al Qaeda and Jemaah Islamiyah seek to do. They interpret the Koran word-for-word and that's why they act like they do.

And, for what it's worth, I would bet that 99.99% of people have no problem with the religious component of Islam. It's the other two that have led to all the problems the world is having with Muslims today.

The funny thing is that if you take away the religious aspect of Islam, you're left with Nazism, Fascism and Totalitarianism rolled up into one ideology.

[tonymctones]

I have no intention of being an advocate for Islam.  I did see your direct answer, sorry I didn't reply, I was just trying to nail down others who didn't give a direct reply.

I will say I'm a bit confused by your words.  On one hand you do blame radical muslims while saying we are not and should not(?) be at war with Islam.  On the other hand, you tie them all together as accomplices? Officially The United States views accomplices to be just as guilty.  So in your question to me, you suggest they are.  So I'll ask you again, should we have been at war with Islam from the start?

no prob

and I am certainly not saying they are accomplices, what im saying is its understandable that ppl would view islam in the way they do as islamist do not condemn radial islam and terrorist act commited in the name of their religion to any noticeable degree.

again why 9 yrs aft 9/11 do they create a commercial to condemn terrorism? what march, rally, organization, get together of any kind by muslums for muslims to condemn radical muslims are there?

if you dont dcondemn it you leave the door open for ppl to project their views onto you rightly or wrongly...

do you think the muslim community has done enough to condemn the acts commited in the name of their religion?

[Hugo Chavez]

no prob

and I am certainly not saying they are accomplices, what im saying is its understandable that ppl would view islam in the way they do as islamist do not condemn radial islam and terrorist act commited in the name of their religion to any noticeable degree.

again why 9 yrs aft 9/11 do they create a commercial to condemn terrorism? what march, rally, organization, get together of any kind by muslums for muslims to condemn radical muslims are there?

if you dont dcondemn it you leave the door open for ppl to project their views onto you rightly or wrongly...

do you think the muslim community has done enough to condemn the acts commited in the name of their religion?

was 9/11 done in the name of Islam?  I mean muhammad attah wasn't even muslim from accounts of the shit he did before 9/11.  Osama made his statements against the "infidels" but his main beef seemed to be that he wanted Americans and Russians out of muslim land.  If it was just in the name of Islam, he would have set up the same attack on America even if we were not dealing in muslim lands.  Seriously, read through all his bullshit before 9/11.  That's about the jist of it.  Again, I have no love for Islam and personally think it's freaking retarded, but really are you saying Osama committed all of Islam in what he did?  Really?