Does President Obama Think Our Rights Come from Our Creator?

[Soul Crusher]

uh yeah.  you mean to tell me that unless some "higher power" give me rights, I don't have any?  lol

Look at it from the opposite point of view. 

Lets say the govt comes out tommorow and says "Mindspin - you no longer have the right to life, liberty, and/or the pursuit if happiness". 

What do you say and why?   

[Straw Man]

Hey 333 - did our creator only create us citizens and no one else on the planet?

how about the native americans who were here before our country existed

did their creator give them the right of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

[Soul Crusher]

Hey 333 - did our creator only create us citizens and no one else on the planet?

how about the native americans who were here before our country existed

did their creator give them the right of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

Yes - and you know what - we have a shameful past in that respect. 

[MindSpin]

Look at it from the opposite point of view. 

Lets say the govt comes out tommorow and says "Mindspin - you no longer have the right to life, liberty, and/or the pursuit if happiness". 

What do you say and why?   

  Do you think that if I responded to the government with "Hey guys, you can't take my rights away!  They were given to me by God!!", that it would make any difference?

[Soul Crusher]

  Do you think that if I responded to the government with "Hey guys, you can't take my rights away!  They were given to me by God!!", that it would make any difference?

No it would not - but our revolution and founding was based upon this very notion considering the history of dealing with Britian and seeing what was occuring in Europe.    They put the govt in place to secure those rights, that being, the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happieness. 

And when the govt does not serve to protect those rights, the people have the right to overthrow the govt and institute a new one.  Its the entire foundation of our nation.   

[MindSpin]

No it would not - but our revolution and founding was based upon this very notion considering the history of dealing with Britian and seeing what was occuring in Europe.    They put the govt in place to secure those rights, that being, the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happieness. 

And when the govt does not serve to protect those rights, the people have the right to overthrow the govt and institute a new one.  Its the entire foundation of our nation.   

Whether these rights are given to us by some magical imaginary being, or we bestow them on ourselves, I agree that it is the governments job to protect them.  And if they don't, then I assure you a revolution would be forthcoming...

[Soul Crusher]

Whether these rights are given to us by some magical imaginary being, or we bestow them on ourselves, I agree that it is the governments job to protect them.  And if they don't, then I assure you a revolution would be forthcoming...

That is fine - but the idea is that something other than the govt bestowes these rights such that when and if the govt breaches these duties to protect rights, the people have the legal, moral, and civil justification for instituting a new govt. 

If people believe their rights COME from the govt, then they must also believe that the govt has the right to take those rights away. 

[MindSpin]

That is fine - but the idea is that something other than the govt bestowes these rights such that when and if the govt breaches these duties to protect rights, the people have the legal, moral, and civil justification for instituting a new govt. 

If people believe their rights COME from the govt, then they must also believe that the govt has the right to take those rights away. 

I thought the government was the people?

[Soul Crusher]

I thought the government was the people?

Yes and no.  What if the people vote to institute slavery again?  Etc etc.  The govt is supposed to exist to PROMOTE AND PROTECT the rights of the people. 

Of course we are so far gone from that as to be laughable, but in theory that is what it is supposed to be. 

[LurkerNoMore]

I have no idea - the Bible was written by men who were writing for their times.    Maybe some others can explain that better than myself, but the premise is that the God who Created the universe is thew ultimate grantor of our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, not govt hacks on their fleeting whims and wishes. 

 

In that case, gays are equally free to marry.  So where is the argument against this now?

[Soul Crusher]

In that case, gays are equally free to marry.  So where is the argument against this now?

I dont have a problem with gay marriage.  If gays want to get married as a matter of law - fine.  However - I also would not prohibit churches from not allowing those ceremonies.   

[LurkerNoMore]

I didn't ask you if you had a problem with it.

I said they should be free to marry.  But yet, they can't.  Why?  Where are these Creator rights now?  If that is the case, there would be no Prop 8 on the ballots because the mere fact of trying to take away an equal right from the Creator would be unconstitutional.

But hey... idiots don't fail to see that little contradition in their bigot biased views.

[Soul Crusher]

I didn't ask you if you had a problem with it.

I said they should be free to marry.  But yet, they can't.  Why?  Where are these Creator rights now?  If that is the case, there would be no Prop 8 on the ballots because the mere fact of trying to take away an equal right from the Creator would be unconstitutional.

But hey... idiots don't fail to see that little contradition in their bigot biased views.

Its being litigated in the courts as we speak.    Marriage has traditionally been a states right issue and all of the arguments are being made as we speak. 

[MindSpin]

Yes and no.  What if the people vote to institute slavery again?  Etc etc.  The govt is supposed to exist to PROMOTE AND PROTECT the rights of the people. 

Of course we are so far gone from that as to be laughable, but in theory that is what it is supposed to be. 

Somehow a black supposedly muslim non-American citizen who is allegedly a fascist, usurped the established white right-wing bible thumping pro-gun anti gay republicans.  I would say the "people" still have some power...

[Soul Crusher]

Somehow a black supposedly muslim non-American citizen who is allegedly a fascist, usurped the established white right-wing bible thumping pro-gun anti gay republicans.  I would say the "people" still have some power...

  

Yeah ok buddy - keep buying into that false narrative.  The propaganda machine worked perfectly on you just like the cheap sales job they knew would. 

That is exactly why we have Obama in the first place as POTUS.    Do you read anything?  Obama was put into office by Wall Street banksters like Goldman Sachs, JP morgan etc. 

Do you think it is any coincidence thatt he first people he apponited were Geithner, Summers, and a whole host of other Wall Street theives who actually started this mess?    Did you even read my thread from an hour ago about the guy they just put in to State Department?  How about the Citi thief Jacob Lew who is slated to be OMB director? 

Seriously - why people by into this fairy tale nonsense about Obama being anything but a bought and sold puppet of Wall Street and other monies interests in beyond me considering the evidence.     

[LurkerNoMore]

Its being litigated in the courts as we speak.    Marriage has traditionally been a states right issue and all of the arguments are being made as we speak. 

It shouldn't be litigated at all since it is a right given to us by our Creator.

[Soul Crusher]

It shouldn't be litigated at all since it is a right given to us by our Creator.

That is not how societies have viewed it for the last few thousands years,.

[Kazan]

I didn't ask you if you had a problem with it.

I said they should be free to marry.  But yet, they can't.  Why?  Where are these Creator rights now?  If that is the case, there would be no Prop 8 on the ballots because the mere fact of trying to take away an equal right from the Creator would be unconstitutional.

But hey... idiots don't fail to see that little contradition in their bigot biased views.

Do you really want to go with the creator angle on this? I can't think of any legitimate religion that doesn't condemn homosexuality.

[kcballer]

Do you really want to go with the creator angle on this? I can't think of any legitimate religion that doesn't condemn homosexuality.

Do Buddhists condemn homosexuality?  I don't know so i'm asking.

[Skip8282]

Do you really want to go with the creator angle on this? I can't think of any legitimate religion that doesn't condemn homosexuality.

I thought Episcopals or maybe Presbyterians (sp?) allowed it.  Maybe not, but wasn't there something in the news about a major church voting to allow for it?

[Skeletor]

The Catholic Church seems to have a strange affinity for young boys..

[LurkerNoMore]

That is not how societies have viewed it for the last few thousands years,.

Well then, they are not following the same doctrine that you are bleating about over Obama are they?  Guess you got to expand your little whine list a bit more to include that or just drop the crying all together.

[Soul Crusher]

Well then, they are not following the same doctrine that you are bleating about over Obama are they?  Guess you got to expand your little whine list a bit more to include that or just drop the crying all together.

I didnt realize your not being able to marry your boyfriend was so upsetting to you. 

Whatever, I still support it even if most of the nation does not.  More power to you if thats' your thing. 

[LurkerNoMore]

Do you really want to go with the creator angle on this? I can't think of any legitimate religion that doesn't condemn homosexuality.

Who said anything in regards to religions and homosexuality?

My statement is in regards to Creator given rights of our nation citizens.  Last time I checked, they didn't need religious rights to marry, they need state rights.  So why don't they have them if it is based on our rights given by our Creator.

[LurkerNoMore]

I didnt realize your not being able to marry your boyfriend was so upsetting to you. 

Whatever, I still support it even if most of the nation does not.  More power to you if thats' your thing. 

Still handling the pseudo gay schtick when you can't come back with anything else?  I think you secretly want me to be gay.  Even if I were, you wouldn't be my type because fat bald men living in their fake little worlds wouldn't do it for me.

So continue your little crying gig until you can contribute something of substance.