Does drug testing work, or not?

[Howard]

I often hear the same tow contradicting statements from many in bodybuilding.

1. Drug testing is a joke, anyone can beat the test , so it is a waste of time.

Then, when asked why not just go ahead and drug test , they often say:

2. If you drug test ,the IFBB pros will look like swimmers.

wtf? How can something they say is a joke,  have such a dramatic effect on the sport? wtf?

[benchmstr]

because the are stupid in thinking they can beat them...but smart enough to really know they cant...

you cant even hide clean piss on you when you are wearing a man thong...and there arent enough masking agents in the world to hide the usage of a competition day pro..

bench

[Howard]

because the are stupid in thinking they can beat them...but smart enough to really know they cant...

you cant even hide clean piss on you when you are wearing a man thong...and there arent enough masking agents in the world to hide the usage of a competition day pro..

bench

Great answer, thanks

[#1 Klaus fan]

Drug tests work, but only on the most clear cases.

[Howard]

Drug tests work, but only on the most clear cases.

Hmm, I think that  high resolution gas chromatography analysis is pretty hard to beat . Your thoughts?

[saucetradomous]

i feel like you've been down this road before howard

[kevinf]

shouldnt you be out molesting some high school boys?

[dave19]

"Beating" a drug test in bodybuilding = using steroids with a short detection time and half-life and going off just in time.

Negative drug test does not mean the athlete is not enhanced, he's just "clean" for that contest, might have had his last injection 3 days ago.

A lot of steroids that most competitors rely on could not be used anymore and so they could never be at their best, but still far from natural.

So what is the point ? Spending lots of money , less quality physiques and an occassional life time ban for someone who gets caught  does not sound like a good idea to me.

[Playboy]

Only certain individuals are tested randomly.

[True]

"Beating" a drug test in bodybuilding = using steroids with a short detection time and half-life and going off just in time.

Negative drug test does not mean the athlete is not enhanced, he's just "clean" for that contest, might have had his last injection 3 days ago.

A lot of steroids that most competitors rely on could not be used anymore and so they could never be at their best, but still far from natural.

So what is the point ? Spending lots of money , less quality physiques and an occassional life time ban for someone who gets caught  does not sound like a good idea to me.

Even so, claiming every natural bodybuilder is on something is still plain ridiculous. One thing is being naive, another thing is just being filled with disbelief. You CAN achive a huge and respectable natural physique despite what anyone says. Layne Norton and such like will never get busted for anything because he hasnt been on anything. You can belivie that.

[WillGrant]

"Beating" a drug test in bodybuilding = using steroids with a short detection time and half-life and going off just in time.

Negative drug test does not mean the athlete is not enhanced, he's just "clean" for that contest, might have had his last injection 3 days ago.

A lot of steroids that most competitors rely on could not be used anymore and so they could never be at their best, but still far from natural.

So what is the point ? Spending lots of money , less quality physiques and an occassional life time ban for someone who gets caught  does not sound like a good idea to me.

This and thats what people mean Howie you can easily time it so you look like you are clean when you are not also gh cant or is to dear to test for , Now Ive never tryed gh but I read what one of the pros said after that tested Mr O he said GH helped maintain all or alot of the mass built with AAS plus with quick acting ester it never was a clean contest at all.

[dave19]

Even so, claiming every natural bodybuilder is on something is still plain ridiculous. One thing is being naive, another thing is just being filled with disbelief. You CAN achive a huge and respectable natural physique despite what anyone says. Layne Norton and such like will never get busted for anything because he hasnt been on anything. You can belivie that.

Of course saying that EVERY natural bodybuilder is on sth. would be stupid - but same thing goes for saying that all of them are truly natural. I think it's possible that Layne Norton actually is natural but I could never say this without a doubt, I don't even know the guy.

It seems like a lot of people expect every user to be huge but that is far from the truth. Most juicers don't look good, most of the times you can just tell they are on because of visible side-effects and not because they are so big and lean. Despite what gh15 says not everyone can get to pro size just by upping the dosage. I've been using gear for years and still nowhere near the size of a pro or even amateur bodybuilder - I could actually pass for a natural on most bodybuilding boards because people are naive.

I've seen the difference that good genes make and it is HUGE.

One thing is for sure - only very few guys with outstanding genetics can achieve a body like Layne's without using hormones. It is NOT possible for anyone.

[Howard]

"Beating" a drug test in bodybuilding = using steroids with a short detection time and half-life and going off just in time.

Negative drug test does not mean the athlete is not enhanced, he's just "clean" for that contest, might have had his last injection 3 days ago.

A lot of steroids that most competitors rely on could not be used anymore and so they could never be at their best, but still far from natural.

So what is the point ? Spending lots of money , less quality physiques and an occassional life time ban for someone who gets caught  does not sound like a good idea to me.

I don't undestand why you couldn't do what the IOC recently did with high resolution gas chromotography.
You simple test for the metabolites left over from the water soluble , fast acting banned drug. This gives a pretty acurate chemcial finger print.
Why wouldn't that work?
I read a lot of OPINIONS on ths topic which is fine, but rarely will anyone discuss the actual methods of testing.
For example we hear plenty say Layne beats the drug test, or they say the test is a joke. When asked what kind of testing or analysis they actually did, they don't know.

[Van_Bilderass]

I don't undestand why you couldn't do what the IOC recently did with high resolution gas chromotography.
You simple test for the metabolites left over from the water soluble , fast acting banned drug. This gives a pretty acurate chemcial finger print.
Why wouldn't that work?
I read a lot of OPINIONS on ths topic which is fine, but rarely will anyone discuss the actual methods of testing.
For example we hear plenty say Layne beats the drug test, or they say the test is a joke. When asked what kind of testing or analysis they actually did, they don't know.

What don't you understand?

Do you not understand that drugs have detection windows and the positive effects do not disappear immediately when the detection window closes? Plus it's not impossible to be on hormones at the time of the test and pass. For example, in one study 10 persons were given Test E at 3mg/kg and 4 didn't fail the T:Epi-T ratio test. You could also supplement testosterone with epitestosterone to stay withing the ratio. Now, they do use isotope testing to check for synthetic test if something is suspicious about the athlete's blood profile. There are also designer steroids which aren't on any banned list (remember BALCO?). They do require expertise to use in a way so you pass while on the drug, but it's possible.

Furthermore, you have the peptide hormones which you can use without worry. GH isn't detectable unless you are blood tested within hours of administration.

Drug testing on competition day IS a joke. Ask any drug testing organization or doping expert what they think about announced drug testing - even they think it's a joke.

IF Layne wanted to use drugs he could do it straight through his shows with zero problems. He is smart and has the contacts for further expertise I'm sure. The only thing keeping a natural bb from doping is his personal ideas and ideals, nothing else! If he doesn't want to he wont, if he wants to he can do it with zero worry of getting busted.

The only thing that would curtail doping (not eliminate) in bodybuilding is random, unannounced testing done by an uncorrupt organization. If the IFBB had WADA implement this type of testing the federation would die immediately .

[LATS]

 IT IS A JOKE.. this is probably the 10th time howard has brought this up.. LOOK AT THE IFBB WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS.. many guys are huge and shredded.. look at last years mabrouk el shahat.. he last competed in the 80-85 kg range.. last year shows up over 100kgs at 5'5.. dennis wolf won the thing for pete sake and was not "natural".. plus one has to consider the amount of corruption in these organizations..  so does drug testing work? well you will catch those who are ill informed.. but , like in the ifbb worlds,  they get around it easily..

[MORTALCOIL]

What don't you understand?

Do you not understand that drugs have detection windows and the positive effects do not disappear immediately when the detection window closes? Plus it's not impossible to be on hormones at the time of the test and pass. For example, in one study 10 persons were given Test E at 3mg/kg and 4 didn't fail the T:Epi-T ratio test. You could also supplement testosterone with epitestosterone to stay withing the ratio. Now, they do use isotope testing to check for synthetic test if something is suspicious about the athlete's blood profile. There are also designer steroids which aren't on any banned list (remember BALCO?). They do require expertise to use in a way so you pass while on the drug, but it's possible.

Furthermore, you have the peptide hormones which you can use without worry. GH isn't detectable unless you are blood tested within hours of administration.

Drug testing on competition day IS a joke. Ask any drug testing organization or doping expert what they think about announced drug testing - even they think it's a joke.

IF Layne wanted to use drugs he could do it straight through his shows with zero problems. He is smart and has the contacts for further expertise I'm sure. The only thing keeping a natural bb from doping is his personal ideas and ideals, nothing else! If he doesn't want to he wont, if he wants to he can do it with zero worry of getting busted.

The only thing that would curtail doping (not eliminate) in bodybuilding is random, unannounced testing done by an uncorrupt organization. If the IFBB had WADA implement this type of testing the federation would die immediately .

Very good post. People have to understand that drug testing is FAR FAR behind and the gap between what's available, the possible combination, the masking agents, etc....and the drug testing is getting bigger and bigger.

[Howard]

Very good post. People have to understand that drug testing is FAR FAR behind and the gap between what's available, the possible combination, the masking agents, etc....and the drug testing is getting bigger and bigger.

Yes, some clever individuals with actual knowledge can stand a chance of "beating the test".
Having said that, why don't we just test for PR reasons, if nothing else.
OH now , can't do that, the guys will be too small is the cry .

My hunch is that done right, drug testing would work. If the pro-drug freak lover crowd felt it was a joke they wouldn't get so defnseive when anyone says "drug test".

[Howard]

What don't you understand?

Do you not understand that drugs have detection windows and the positive effects do not disappear immediately when the detection window closes? Plus it's not impossible to be on hormones at the time of the test and pass. For example, in one study 10 persons were given Test E at 3mg/kg and 4 didn't fail the T:Epi-T ratio test. You could also supplement testosterone with epitestosterone to stay withing the ratio. Now, they do use isotope testing to check for synthetic test if something is suspicious about the athlete's blood profile. There are also designer steroids which aren't on any banned list (remember BALCO?). They do require expertise to use in a way so you pass while on the drug, but it's possible.

Furthermore, you have the peptide hormones which you can use without worry. GH isn't detectable unless you are blood tested within hours of administration.

Drug testing on competition day IS a joke. Ask any drug testing organization or doping expert what they think about announced drug testing - even they think it's a joke.

IF Layne wanted to use drugs he could do it straight through his shows with zero problems. He is smart and has the contacts for further expertise I'm sure. The only thing keeping a natural bb from doping is his personal ideas and ideals, nothing else! If he doesn't want to he wont, if he wants to he can do it with zero worry of getting busted.

The only thing that would curtail doping (not eliminate) in bodybuilding is random, unannounced testing done by an uncorrupt organization. If the IFBB had WADA implement this type of testing the federation would die immediately .

Hey good post and you sir have some actual knowldge so I applaud you for that.
The test for post reaction"metabolites " can work well way past the active life of the compound and that is why it so good and effective.
THAT kind of testing is NOT done by most natural organizations and is rather expensive $$.
An avg natural guy won't have the resources to beat a regular drug test and most (NOT ALL) tend to believe in the natural philosophy as you mentioned.

[Howard]

This and thats what people mean Howie you can easily time it so you look like you are clean when you are not also gh cant or is to dear to test for , Now Ive never tryed gh but I read what one of the pros said after that tested Mr O he said GH helped maintain all or alot of the mass built with AAS plus with quick acting ester it never was a clean contest at all.

I figured you would at least give an intelligent answer, thanks.
The thing about the fast acting ester is correct.
"esterification" is the key in the length of activity within the body.

[Van_Bilderass]

The test for post reaction"metabolites " can work well way past the active life of the compound and that is why it so good and effective.

Of course. But like LATS said, look at the IFBB Universe. They use WADA and they are the most advanced testing org AFAIK. How long do you think these are off steroids before the test? Mere days. They juice right through the show and some still pass.

THAT kind of testing is NOT done by most natural organizations and is rather expensive $$.
An avg natural guy won't have the resources to beat a regular drug test and most (NOT ALL) tend to believe in the natural philosophy as you mentioned.

The natural orgs also employ labs who use HPLC which can detect metabolites months or even years after the active life of the drug is over. They may not do all of the testing on the samples that WADA does but the most common steroids can be detected for a long time.

The absolute majority of the well known naturals are on drugs - fact.

They don't have the resources to beat the tests? It's easy. It's only hard if you want to do the most effective cycle and stay on all through. An example. Do lots of orals with your testosterone until a few months out (orals can be run closer but let's be safe). Drop orals and do quick acting testosterone injections until a few weeks out. Switch to Androgel and/or Andriol and stop about a week out. Use as much GH, IGF-1 and insulin as you want and run them right on through.

I don't agree with everything this guy says but take a look:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/bodybuilding_drug_testing.htm

[tendonitis]

Another day......another Howard drug thread.............horse still dead.......

[Howard]

Of course. But like LATS said, look at the IFBB Universe. They use WADA and they are the most advanced testing org AFAIK. How long do you think these are off steroids before the test? Mere days. They juice right through the show and some still pass.

The natural orgs also employ labs who use HPLC which can detect metabolites months or even years after the active life of the drug is over. They may not do all of the testing on the samples that WADA does but the most common steroids can be detected for a long time.

The absolute majority of the well known naturals are on drugs - fact.

They don't have the resources to beat the tests? It's easy. It's only hard if you want to do the most effective cycle and stay on all through. An example. Do lots of orals with your testosterone until a few months out (orals can be run closer but let's be safe). Drop orals and do quick acting testosterone injections until a few weeks out. Switch to Androgel and/or Andriol and stop about a week out. Use as much GH, IGF-1 and insulin as you want and run them right on through.

I don't agree with everything this guy says but take a look:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/bodybuilding_drug_testing.htm

Good article in the link, thanks.
I don't think any of us can be certain about the exact % of natural pros that "cheat".
I honestly believe most are not useing drugs and follow the rules of their organization.