Old News, but have you guys watched Michael Moore's "Captitalism: A love Story?"

[Hugo Chavez]

I just re-watched it and I couldn't help but notice that so much of what I heard from Moore in this movie, is also much of what I hear from 3333 and a few others on the right here.  Now I know there is a big separation from a guy like Moore and 3333, but obviously both are recognizing that something is severely broken with capitalism.  I think the instant reaction is to reject Moore before even listening.  But he does raise many valid points.  Points I see raised on the right too.  

So what is the point of pointing out the problems with capitalism?  Is it to make it better or to do away with it?  I think most people will see that the ills that have been raised are directed toward fixing capitalism and not doing away with it.  If you set a child loose without direction, what do you expect?  That's what we've gotten from capitalism.  Actually comparing it to a child is wrong, it would be better to compare it to a basic computer program.  A corporation does not have a soul, it does not have a conscience.  A corporation will do what and everything LEGAL to achieve profit.  That means it's their obligation to exploit every means possible to up the bottom line.  It's that very aspect that has gotten us into the trouble we are in now.

[Soul Crusher]

Go read that book I told you about.  We don't have capitalism.  We have crony corporatism and a jack boot govt picking winners and losers and squashing small business and middle income people in favor of the top few and the bottom who are dependent, docile, and content to be serfs. 

[Purge_WTF]

  There's a difference between capitalism and croney capitalism.

  Moore has spent a better part of his life screaming from the (Cuban) hilltops that capitalism is wrong, but he apparently has no bones about being a presumably wealthy filmmaker. Capitalism isn't wrong; greed is.

[Bindare_Dundat]

 There's a difference between capitalism and croney capitalism.

  Moore has spent a better part of his life screaming from the (Cuban) hilltops that capitalism is wrong, but he apparently has no bones about being a presumably wealthy filmmaker. Capitalism isn't wrong; greed is.

[garebear]

Go read that book I told you about.  We don't have capitalism.  We have crony corporatism and a jack boot govt picking winners and losers and squashing small business and middle income people in favor of the top few and the bottom who are dependent, docile, and content to be serfs. 

Don't you have any problems with the Republican Platform then?

[Hugo Chavez]

Go read that book I told you about.  We don't have capitalism.  We have crony corporatism and a jack boot govt picking winners and losers and squashing small business and middle income people in favor of the top few and the bottom who are dependent, docile, and content to be serfs. 

see what I mean, this reply reads like a review of that movie.  Now like I said, I know there are major differences but obviously I wouldn't have started this thread if I didn't see that the main beefs were the same.

[Soul Crusher]

Don't you have any problems with the Republican Platform then?

Of course I do, but the dems one is 5 x worse in that regard and often times costs me a lot more money. 

Perfect example - health care.  ObamaCare is the textbook example of crony corporatism screwing over small business and middle income people.  Same with cap & trade, stim bill, etc.

On a local level, I live in NYS - the democrats are simply bank robbers and traitors.  Same as in CA, IL, MI. 

[Hugo Chavez]

 There's a difference between capitalism and croney capitalism.

  Moore has spent a better part of his life screaming from the (Cuban) hilltops that capitalism is wrong, but he apparently has no bones about being a presumably wealthy filmmaker. Capitalism isn't wrong; greed is.

I think you're actually grossly mistaken.  And I'm willing to debate it with you.

[Bindare_Dundat]

see what I mean, this reply reads like a review of that movie.  Now like I said, I know there are major differences but obviously I wouldn't have started this thread if I didn't see that the main beefs were the same.

What des Moore offer as a soulution? I havent seen the movie.

[garebear]

Of course I do, but the dems one is 5 x worse in that regard and often times costs me a lot more money. 

Perfect example - health care.  ObamaCare is the textbook example of crony corporatism screwing over small business and middle income people.  Same with cap & trade, stim bill, etc.

On a local level, I live in NYS - the democrats are simply bank robbers and traitors.  Same as in CA, IL, MI. 

I'm surprised you aren't enraged over the tax cuts for top 2%. They've been given a break for a long time.

You can argue against the wisdom of a graduated tax, but that's another argument.

[Soul Crusher]

Sorry - I dont get excited about any group being able to0 keep more of their own money. 

I do get excited about govt mandating I buy expensive insurance, jacking my enrgy prices, raising my property taxes to pay overpaid cops and govt workers, etc etc. 

In my mind, we should have flat 10% tax and thats it, no deductions, expemstions, nothing. 

[Hugo Chavez]

What des Moore offer as a soulution? I havent seen the movie.

Moore never seems to offer a solution in his movies.  Even going to his past films, he doesn't offer solutions.  That's not really a bad thing.  It's not a must to have a solution prior to bitching about a problem.  I guess the first thing is to get everyone to see the problem, which Moore, it seems, tries to do, just like many of us try to do.  It seems his mode in his docs is to make people think about it.  To make them take another look at what has happened and see there is something worth questioning.

[Soul Crusher]

Bottom line - the more power to the govt equals more power to the corporations and interests who lobby it and can help determine how and what the govt spends money on, not the voters or taxpayers. 

[Purge_WTF]

I think you're actually grossly mistaken.  And I'm willing to debate it with you.

  That was meant to be satyrical. I was trying to say that he's a Communist.

[Hugo Chavez]

 That was meant to be satyrical. I was trying to say that he's a Communist.

yea, I got that from the start.  Not sure why you thought I didn't.  That's what I was willing to debate with you.  Your words made that clear.  I don't think he is a communist.

[SAMSON123]

Moore never seems to offer a solution in his movies.  Even going to his past films, he doesn't offer solutions.  That's not really a bad thing.  It's not a must to have a solution prior to bitching about a problem.  I guess the first thing is to get everyone to see the problem, which Moore, it seems, tries to do, just like many of us try to do.  It seems his mode in his docs is to make people think about it.  To make them take another look at what has happened and see there is something worth questioning.

I think I have seen all of Michael Moore's documentaries and none of them were ever made to offer solutions to a problem be it the insurance industry, auto industry, outsourced industries, corrupt Wall Street etc etc, but rather to make the often oblivious public aware of what is going on around them that they are blind to due to willful ignorance. The documentary SICKO exposed the massive corruption in the healthcare industry, pharmaceutical industry and how it became that way due to bribed politicians. Exposed how the FDA is a prostitute from big pharma and actually works to approve the dangerous drugs they create. How money decides what kind of healthcare a person receives. The doc SICKO allowed the viewer to see how things work and while Moore suggest what the masses can do to resolve the matter, he more importantly has made the public aware of what is happening as well as made the politicians and businesses aware that he has revealed to the masses what they are all about and how they get their way. It is now up to the masses to bring about CHANGE (there is that Obama word) and change does not and will not come by just merely complaining about the problem.

His other movies that dealt with outsourcing the automotive industry:ROGER AND ME, right up to the last film CAPITALISM: A LOVE STORY, all follow the same formula..Reveal, Expose, Suggest and hopefully cause the public to Act on the issue. Sadly the dumbdown public turned against him and his documentaries and it is not until now that the financial calamity is effecting so many that people are now saying "you know...that guy was right...he made some really good points in his films". Problem right now is people realize they have sat and waited too long and things are now so out of hand there is nothing that can be done but suffer the consequences.

BTW I have heard too many times people on this board confusing what Capitalism is and what a Free Market system is...they are as different as day and night. Capitalism has noting to do with a person making a living working for someone else or having their own business as some foolishly think...Capitalism is when a whole industry under the control of a few people (primarily bankers) or some one monopoly. Free Market is where businesses can open and operate under their own regulations and whichever business sells the best product at the best price is the one(s) that will succeed.

[Soul Crusher]

Guys - if you really want a clue, or at least the start - get this book. 

[Hugo Chavez]

by the way Purge, you're good people imo so I don't mean to challenge you out of any spite.  It would just be for fun.  I got no beef againt you.  Most of what you post is good stuff.