The judging is more fucked up now then ever....thanks

[MCWAY]

First, I dont make any decision single handed...anything I submit has to be approved by the IFBB Pro League and voted on.  

Second, scoring the actual posing round was dropped...because its impossible to score fairly. Dorian and Ronniw won posing round after posing round while arguably being the worst posers on the stage.

At least, it wasn't "Twinkle Toe" music. And, Ronnie cracked the top 15.

 

[MB]

Judges know very quickly how they are going to place everyone.  They need a few comparisons at pre-judging and they pretty much have everyone slotted.  The problem is that we are trying to stretch this into 2 shows, but why are we judging mandatories on Friday and then re-judging the same mandatories on Saturday?  The whole show should be Saturday night.  Start with individual 2 minute posing routines, then move on to comparisons with quarter turns and mandatories.  No 50/50 split, just who is the best bodybuilder that night.  The posing routines give an initial look at each competitor, then we move on to comparisons and determine the winner.  So simple. 

[nukkaready]

First, I dont make any decision single handed...anything I submit has to be approved by the IFBB Pro League and voted on. 

Second, scoring the actual posing round was dropped...because its impossible to score fairly. Dorian and Ronniw won posing round after posing round while arguably being the worst posers on the stage.

 That said, the POSING ROUND and POSEDOWN arent the big deal...the final round of COMPARISONS are.  THAT'S where the debate is, and whether it should be expanded....I personally believe ( and brought up at the time it was voted on) that anyone with a mathematical chance of moving up should be included....or just make it top 15, or whatever.  I dont like closing the door on judging at any point.  Of course you have to draw the line somewhere.....My call would be, once you make top 15,and perform a routine, then you are included in the final judging.

Understand what you're talking about before making comments, or putting words in my mouth.

Calling Dorian one of the worst posers tells me how truly ignorant you are. Dorian was a solid if not good poser who posed to very powerful music that fit his body perfectly well. Granted, in 1991 he was heavily critized for his posing routine. He took this to heart and in 1992 when he won his first Olympia he had an awesome routine to very fast and powerful music.

[Chick]

Calling Dorian one of the worst posers tells me how truly ignorant you are. Dorian was a solid if not good poser who posed to very powerful music that fit his body perfectly well. Granted, in 1991 he was heavily critized for his posing routine. He took this to heart and in 1992 when he won his first Olympia he had an awesome routine to very fast and powerful music.

Riiiiiight....and making this comment tells me how bias you are towards Dorian.  Compared to the many others he competed against, he wassn't anywhere NEAR the best in the "posing round", which makes my point even more valid....

Speaking of which...Even you admit his posing sucked in 1991...but yet he WON the posing round that year.....comments?

[nukkaready]

Riiiiiight....and making this comment tells me how bias you are towards Dorian.  Compared to the many others he competed against, he wassn't anywhere NEAR the best in the "posing round", which makes my point even more valid....

Speaking of which...Even you admit his posing sucked in 1991...but yet he WON the posing round that year.....comments?

LOL. Dorian didn't win the posing round in 1991. In all his Olympia wins Dorian had a very polished routine, smooth yet dramatic. You are a clown. Ronnie didn't know how to pose.

[nukkaready]

That was a poor explanation from Rockell....the explanation sucked and the rule sucks...50% of the show being judged on the second day but 7th place and lower can't move up into top six? YET 50% of the judging is done on the second day...If that isn't stupid, then I don't know what is...In addition, 50% of the show is judged in the last 1-2 min of the final posedown but there are no rules for this round....Just kinda walk around and "go to war" posing head to head? Sounds really fair

Oh yeah the "Ya gotta cut it off somewhere" comment?  Someone commented best, places 7-10 aka 7th-10th best bodybuilders in the world aren't worth moving up into a possible 6th place...

To put it in better terms, the seventh place winner is not worthy of being compared to the 6th place person on the second day where 50% of the judging takes place in the last 1-2 min....What kind of a fuckin' joke is this in the top show in the sport?

Look for this to be avoided to be talked about in the future...

Bottom line is, with the new judging criteria you should send everyone home who is not in the top 6 after the Friday night pre-judging. There is no reason for them to come back if they can't score anymore. Just have the top 6 come out on Saturday and compare and pose for 10 minutes and call it a night. In essence, that's the scenario Bob and his stooches have created with the new rules.

[Chick]

LOL. Dorian didn't win the posing round in 1991. In all his Olympia wins Dorian had a very polished routine, smooth yet dramatic. You are a clown. Ronnie didn't know how to pose.

My bad...I was thinking 92.  But doesnt change the facts...lets take 92.  here is the top 10, tll me Dorian wins the posing round...at BEST...he's 6th in posing, which would have made it that he LOST the show, and possibly been 3rd or 4th.

Exactly why the format was changed.....

1   Dorian Yates
 
2   Kevin Levrone
 
3   Lee Labrada
 
4   Shawn Ray
 
5   Mohammed Benaziza
 
6   Vince Taylor
 
7   Sonny Schmidt
 
8   Porter Cottrell
 
9   Ron Love
 
10   Thierry Pastel

[Chick]

Bottom line is, with the new judging criteria you should send everyone home who is not in the top 6 after the Friday night pre-judging. There is no reason for them to come back if they can't score anymore. Just have the top 6 come out on Saturday and compare and pose for 10 minutes and call it a night. In essence, that's the scenario Bob and his stooches have created with the new rules.

I dont disagree...the new format is suppossed to include anyone with a mathematical cham=nc of moving up...adjustments will be made, hopefully, the top 10 can be rejudged at night and insuring anyone has a chance to move up/ down. The only thing were trying to create, is a fair and just system for all....thats why nothing is written in stone

[NarcissisticDeity]

My bad...I was thinking 92.  But doesnt change the facts...lets take 92.  here is the top 10, tll me Dorian wins the posing round...at BEST...he's 6th in posing, which would have made it that he LOST the show, and possibly been 3rd or 4th.

Exactly why the format was changed.....

1   Dorian Yates
 
2   Kevin Levrone
 
3   Lee Labrada
 
4   Shawn Ray
 
5   Mohammed Benaziza
 
6   Vince Taylor
 
7   Sonny Schmidt
 
8   Porter Cottrell
 
9   Ron Love
 
10   Thierry Pastel

All rounds are physique rounds , they judge the physique in all rounds posing rounds included , Dorian never lost a symmetry round despite the fact he was never the most symmetrical , why? because all rounds are physique rounds

and Dorian wasn't a great poser in the Lee Labrada , Bob Paris , Shawn Ray sense but he most certainly posed to his style of physique and would effectively hit and mandatrories , Ronnie was atrocious , and Dillett was the worse

Dorian would look goofy posing like Ray

[nukkaready]

My bad...I was thinking 92.  But doesnt change the facts...lets take 92.  here is the top 10, tll me Dorian wins the posing round...at BEST...he's 6th in posing, which would have made it that he LOST the show, and possibly been 3rd or 4th.

Exactly why the format was changed.....

1   Dorian Yates
 
2   Kevin Levrone
 
3   Lee Labrada
 
4   Shawn Ray
 
5   Mohammed Benaziza
 
6   Vince Taylor
 
7   Sonny Schmidt
 
8   Porter Cottrell
 
9   Ron Love
 
10   Thierry Pastel

Yeah, let's take 1992. Good choice... seriously, Dorian won the posing round in 1992 hands down. I was actually at that show sitting in that ridiculous Helsinki icering. Dorian's music was very fast, powerful, with some techno tunes and he posed exceptionally well. The music and his moves combined with his extreme conditioning literally sent shivers down your spine. He was able to fully hit and align each pose to the more dramatic tunes of his song. Go back to watching the video and I'm positive you may agree. But then again you're Chick... so may be not.  

[jwb]

Nice to see some debate here.

[MB]

All rounds are physique rounds , they judge the physique in all rounds posing rounds included , Dorian never lost a symmetry round despite the fact he was never the most symmetrical , why? because all rounds are physique rounds

and Dorian wasn't a great poser in the Lee Labrada , Bob Paris , Shawn Ray sense but he most certainly posed to his style of physique and would effectively hit and mandatrories , Ronnie was atrocious , and Dillett was the worse

Dorian would look goofy posing like Ray

Nice to see someone who understands how the posing round was judged.  BTW, this was the correct way of judging it, every round is a physique round.  I know Chick didn't like it being scored, but does it make any sense to judge mandatories in the pre-judging and then do the same thing again the next night?  Why not have a 2 minute free posing routine by each competitor for a first look by the judges, then move on to quarter turn and mandatory comparisons?

[Chick]

I had no issue with the "rounds system" of scoring, but then dont call them what they ARENT...posing round, symmetry round, muscularity round...when in effect, they're ALL muscularity rounds....

[jwb]

Nice to see someone who understands how the posing round was judged.  BTW, this was the correct way of judging it, every round is a physique round.  I know Chick didn't like it being scored, but does it make any sense to judge mandatories in the pre-judging and then do the same thing again the next night?  Why not have a 2 minute free posing routine by each competitor for a first look by the judges, then move on to quarter turn and mandatory comparisons?

I was just about to write a similar thing.

Right now a guy doesn't get judged at all doing poses that he chooses... imagine how Labrada would have done in this system or Demey who was pretty average in the mandatories but was awesome in his snake type twisting shots.

Why can't the guys do 30 seconds of their own poses when they first come out by themselves at prejudging the way they did it in the 70's?

They still get compared in numerical order before any judges comparisons are done anyway.

[Chick]

I was just about to write a similar thing.

Right now a guy doesn't get judged at all doing poses that he chooses... imagine how Labrada would have done in this system or Demey who was pretty average in the mandatories but was awesome in his snake type twisting shots.

Why can't the guys do 30 seconds of their own poses when they first come out by themselves at prejudging the way they did it in the 70's?

They still get compared in numerical order before any judges comparisons are done anyway.

Bro...you still dont get it....they NEVER got judged on their posing routine, OR the poses of their choice....EVER. It was a bullshit round...it's a showcase for the audience....a physique competition is still based on comparisons of physiques, straight up.

[MB]

I had no issue with the "rounds system" of scoring, but then dont call them what they ARENT...posing round, symmetry round, muscularity round...when in effect, they're ALL muscularity rounds....

I wouldn't go back to the old rounds system.  Have individual free posing for an initial look at the competitors, then go right into comparisons.  No 50/50 split scoring or separate rounds, just one score.  Of course, this would mean the end of the pre-judging/finals format, which is archaic and especially worthless under the current format since the posing round is not judged.    

[StuartR]

This is a retarded complaint. All sorts of sports have preliminaries which set a cutoff for the finals. suck it up.

[Chick]

I wouldn't go back to the old rounds system.  Have individual free posing for an initial look at the competitors, then go right into comparisons.  No 50/50 split scoring or separate rounds, just one score.  Of course, this would mean the end of the pre-judging/finals format, which is archaic and especially worthless under the current format since the posing round is not judged.    

We have that now, at every show EXCEPT the Olympia and ASC.....opening round is free posing routine....I believe it should be at EVERY show.  We have enough mandatory comparisons.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Bro...you still dont get it....they NEVER got judged on their posing routine, OR the poses of their choice....EVER. It was a bullshit round...it's a showcase for the audience....a physique competition is still based on comparisons of physiques, straight up.

That's not 100% accurate Chick in 2001 Jay soundly beat Ronnie in the meat & potatoes of the contest but somehow ' lost ' the whole contest when Ronnie won the posing rounds

Same with Kevin in 94 who was ahead of Shawn in the prejudging for second but after the posing rounds Shawn moved ahead of Kevin for second.

[jwb]

Bro...you still dont get it....they NEVER got judged on their posing routine, OR the poses of their choice....EVER. It was a bullshit round...it's a showcase for the audience....a physique competition is still based on comparisons of physiques, straight up.

Chick you are wrong i've studied scorecards for over 20 years and there are plenty of contests where a guy DID move up strongly in the old 3rd round of free posing.

Demey overtook Labrada in 1988. Munzer jumped up to 2nd at the 1993 Night Of Champions.

The problem is the routines became a joke as people started getting lazy and walked around waving their arms for applause or shaking their asses instead of posing so the judges had no choice but to judge it as a physique round.

I agree it shouldn't be judged but as part of the intros, and therefore the prejudging, they should be able to do some of their own poses to try to create a positive impression on the judges before the mandatories start.
 

[jwb]

Also, to say that Dorian's 1992 routine was weak is crazy it was one of the best hardcore routines of all time.

[nukkaready]

Also, to say that Dorian's 1992 routine was weak is crazy it was one of the best hardcore routines of all time.

Yes, it was indeed.

[Chick]

That's not 100% accurate Chick in 2001 Jay soundly beat Ronnie in the meat & potatoes of the contest but somehow ' lost ' the whole contest when Ronnie won the posing rounds

Same with Kevin in 94 who was ahead of Shawn in the prejudging for second but after the posing rounds Shawn moved ahead of Kevin for second.

Yes....but not because of their routines...thats the point.

[Palpatine Q]

Yes, it was indeed.

You know what's funny?

when dorian came onto the scene, he was criticized for being blocky and having a big stomach. by today's standards he is freaking brian buchanan....the level of today's competitors sucks ass.....bunch of soft, bloated dildos.

Some "progress" 

[jwb]

Yes....but not because of their routines...thats the point.

Chick, who ever said the posing round was only supposed to be about who was the best poser?

The whole point of the round was to display your physique in its best light using poses that suit it.

From that the judges then judged the body they saw during that display and if the impression they got was more positive than the one they saw in the prejudging (either via superior posing like Shawn Ray in 1994 or an improvement in condition from the prejudging like Ronnie in 2001) then they scored better.

The way it is now why even learn ANY poses outside of the mandatories?